V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019
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The dvla have had my v5 to update the number of seats only (didn’t even bother to try getting it reclassified as a camper) for months now. Blaming covid for the delays. Seems the dvla have not successfully adapted to home working!
Good luck with the ticket. Please keep us informed of the actions taken and responses. I did think before that we should cloud fund a generic lawyer letter to respond to such a case. If this is something you want to look into, I would definitely contribute.
Good luck with the ticket. Please keep us informed of the actions taken and responses. I did think before that we should cloud fund a generic lawyer letter to respond to such a case. If this is something you want to look into, I would definitely contribute.
If this is something you want to look into, I would definitely contribute.
I would be happy to chip in as well.
Also I think that when you write to give them a way out (save face etc.) saying I understand that this ticket may have been issued automatically due to its N1 classification and that this will not show that it has been converted etc. enclosing photographs. Bla Bla, and the DLVA are happy that it meets the criteria of a Campervan (MPV) even though they are no longer changing the classification for converted vehicles.
I'm going to post some info to see if this helps, I have an N1 call vehicle with a motorhome body. I did loads of looking at this before I bought the van as knew there were lots of issues recently on it, but I am only am amateur regarding vans, but slightly above average at google.
This is an extract from my V5 with no personal details on;
You can have a commercial vehicle, tax registered for motorhome speeds. (If DVLA are not playing games). In my example;
Item J on your V5 is - N1 Vs M1 this is for tax only (for the purposes of this discussion), not speed limites, this will be what the vehicle was type approved as, so the carravele for instance started life as a passenger vehicle so will always be a M1, my camper was a transporter so will always be an N1 and taxed as such / drives the taxation class (item x on the V5). The vehicle category is driven by the type approval number which if you google relates back to particular vans made in Germany. The only way to change this is to put your van back through testing (like you would with a custom car and possibly end up with a Q Plate (whole other discussion).
Item D.5. is the body type, this dictates what the 'body type is'. On mine it is motor caravan as when it was converted the converter was able to get it changed (prior to the renewed messing around by DVLA, with I believe happened before around 10 years ago and got reversed by pressure from campervan groups, camping club, etc). So if DVLA play ball this is what people need to get changed for converted transporters.
This list of vehicle categories are below and link to the vehicle certification agency;
www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk
If you are unsure you can put your reg into the london ULEZ or the dartford crossing that use the DVLA database and work out what you hvae.
As you can see mine is exempt ULEZ (as it's a motorhome)e.g.
Or Dartford crossing, vehicle class is B, so again motorhome;
Vehicle classes;
This is an extract from my V5 with no personal details on;
You can have a commercial vehicle, tax registered for motorhome speeds. (If DVLA are not playing games). In my example;
Item J on your V5 is - N1 Vs M1 this is for tax only (for the purposes of this discussion), not speed limites, this will be what the vehicle was type approved as, so the carravele for instance started life as a passenger vehicle so will always be a M1, my camper was a transporter so will always be an N1 and taxed as such / drives the taxation class (item x on the V5). The vehicle category is driven by the type approval number which if you google relates back to particular vans made in Germany. The only way to change this is to put your van back through testing (like you would with a custom car and possibly end up with a Q Plate (whole other discussion).
Item D.5. is the body type, this dictates what the 'body type is'. On mine it is motor caravan as when it was converted the converter was able to get it changed (prior to the renewed messing around by DVLA, with I believe happened before around 10 years ago and got reversed by pressure from campervan groups, camping club, etc). So if DVLA play ball this is what people need to get changed for converted transporters.
This list of vehicle categories are below and link to the vehicle certification agency;
Vehicle Certification Agency
Vehicle Type Approval is the confirmation that production samples of a type of vehicle, vehicle system, component or separate technical unit will meet specified performance standards.
www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk
If you are unsure you can put your reg into the london ULEZ or the dartford crossing that use the DVLA database and work out what you hvae.
As you can see mine is exempt ULEZ (as it's a motorhome)e.g.
Or Dartford crossing, vehicle class is B, so again motorhome;
Vehicle classes;
I'm going to post some info to see if this helps, I have an N1 call vehicle with a motorhome body. I did loads of looking at this before I bought the van as knew there were lots of issues recently on it, but I am only am amateur regarding vans, but slightly above average at google.
This is an extract from my V5 with no personal details on;
View attachment 75685
You can have a commercial vehicle, tax registered for motorhome speeds. (If DVLA are not playing games). In my example;
Item J on your V5 is - N1 Vs M1 this is for tax only (for the purposes of this discussion), not speed limites, this will be what the vehicle was type approved as, so the carravele for instance started life as a passenger vehicle so will always be a M1, my camper was a transporter so will always be an N1 and taxed as such / drives the taxation class (item x on the V5). The vehicle category is driven by the type approval number which if you google relates back to particular vans made in Germany. The only way to change this is to put your van back through testing (like you would with a custom car and possibly end up with a Q Plate (whole other discussion).
Item D.5. is the body type, this dictates what the 'body type is'. On mine it is motor caravan as when it was converted the converter was able to get it changed (prior to the renewed messing around by DVLA, with I believe happened before around 10 years ago and got reversed by pressure from campervan groups, camping club, etc). So if DVLA play ball this is what people need to get changed for converted transporters.
This list of vehicle categories are below and link to the vehicle certification agency;
Vehicle Certification Agency
Vehicle Type Approval is the confirmation that production samples of a type of vehicle, vehicle system, component or separate technical unit will meet specified performance standards.
View attachment 75684
If you are unsure you can put your reg into the london ULEZ or the dartford crossing that use the DVLA database and work out what you hvae.
As you can see mine is exempt ULEZ (as it's a motorhome)e.g.
View attachment 75686
Or Dartford crossing, vehicle class is B, so again motorhome;
View attachment 75687
Vehicle classes;
View attachment 75688
Some interesting information there, however I am not sure exactly the point you are trying to make regarding speed limits.
As you started the N1 or M1 classification is nothing to do with speed lints, although it is what is used by Police/ Cameras.
Also its now not possible (or extremely difficult) to get the body type reclassified as MOTOR CARAVAN. Now most are coming back as 'VAN WITH WINDOWS'.
Now the interesting bit for me is the Dartford Crossing where my T6 comes out showing as category 'C'. However on my V5 the body type is van with windows (is has windows behind the doors), which should put it into category B.
As regard to speed limits I should be at car levels. As my 'van' satifies the criteria for a DPV due to windows, seats and Unladen Mass below the limit.
The DVLA really need to make this a lot more simple.
So the Dartford crossing sees your van as the same class as other commercial vehicles and pulls it's data from DVLA, so you may end up in a grey area over speed limits. I think it's good information for people to know if they cannot get their V5 changed as you can make a decision on how much risk you take with the speed.
If you do actually use the dartford crossing it's worth reading some of the issues they have created with people paying the wrong class or having hire vehicle on thier account and endig up with debt collectors on the doorstep.
Van with windows is widely reported as a grey area and you would have to appeal (either in the old fashioned way at the roadside) or via mail and possibly court and be able to justify your point.
My main point above was to explain the difference between vehicle class, body type and why you would try to get one changed (body type) but not the other (vehicle class). Also to provide a simple way of checking what the DVLA system is telling users (government toll operators and the fuzz).
@Iain G,
Surly any magistrate faced with this would recognise a conflict in the law/regulations exists thereby leading to uncertainty and would not only dismiss the ticket but also refer it on to judicial review to get clarification.
I had to attend a driver's awareness course only three weeks ago (driving Honda Jazz) and brought this subject up when told we all know the correct speed limits according to our vehicle and road we were on and the "teacher/expert/retired driving instructor" admitted he didn't have a clue although he knew both bits of legislation.
Surly any magistrate faced with this would recognise a conflict in the law/regulations exists thereby leading to uncertainty and would not only dismiss the ticket but also refer it on to judicial review to get clarification.
I had to attend a driver's awareness course only three weeks ago (driving Honda Jazz) and brought this subject up when told we all know the correct speed limits according to our vehicle and road we were on and the "teacher/expert/retired driving instructor" admitted he didn't have a clue although he knew both bits of legislation.
As far as the Dartford crossing, we have just been issued a fine for not paying and the notice said the charge for our vehicle was £3... But here's the thing. We had already paid the charge via interweb which stated the charge for our (fully converted) vehicle was £2.50! Needless to say we are challenging the fine.
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is your van on the v5 motor caravan
No. Van with Windows. Re registered in Jan this year
they must cross reference it with the DVLA mine got reclassified as motor caravan before changes and on Dartford crossing account its in the B category £2.50 never had a penalty notice
which makes you wonder if a converted van classed as van with windows is still classed as a van when it comes to speed limits and tolls
Well it's proof that two departments and bits of legislation are at odds with each other. Which is a bonus I suppose!
what info did you have to give them that made them come to the conclusion you were cat B for the crossing did you say van with windows or motorhome
@Iain G - it would seem that Jerba Campervans agree with you...
Motorcaravan, Campervan & Van With Windows Speed Limits - UPDATED 2020 - Jerba Campervans
For many years the question of campervan and motorcaravan (and now van with windows) speed limits has been a widely debated and unclear topic, so with the DVLA’s definition change of motorcaravan in 2019 we thought we revisit the speed limit subject again. After a discussion with the Dept for...
www.jerbacampervans.co.uk
Good luck with your defence, a lot of folk will be watching how it goes.
No. Just went on website to pay, put in our reg No in the box and the computer told us the charge was £2.50
just so you can prove that fact why not try it again put your reg in get the price and screen shot it you may have to do it on your phone to screen shot it plus did you get an emailed recipient with van reg on it if you have surely they cant argue with that
Well, that's the problem. The DVLA just alter to Van with windows regardless of what you tell or show them. PC plod when he accesses the system just sees it as a van and acts accordingly ie speed wise. I think it will take a few court cases to see if the courts will throw out any speeding fines for a converted van. I do wonder if the DVLA actually makes a note of any details regarding a conversion or just now simply alter it to a van with windows? We shall watch with bated breath.
Ok, I'm confused myself now. Just went on to pretend ide just been over and they quoted me £3. Maybe I've miss remembered and I had actually just tried to pay the lesser charge and got caught! Haha, classic!
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When you speak to them at DART they haven't got a clue. They tried to send me a fine for non payment of a crossing as an old company car was on my log in, didn't even know I had a log in.
Anyway I explained this and they said I had to pay the fine anyway, even though the person driving could have paid, because it was linked to my email address I had to pay too.
After much heated discussion I asked where they would send the offical notice of intended prosecution... the vehicle owner so told them to do that. If the company paid they can prove it as it will be on thier expenses, if they didn't they should have....
Slightly off topic but if you use hire or company cars and use the DART drossing don't add registrations to your account, or if you do you have to remove them, or you get the fines not the vehicle owner.
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