V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019

[CAB]

A high-top roof is a mandatory feature.​

Just thought I would post my experience.

I read the guidance, and the PDF checklist has the following:



And the DVLA gov.uk website says:

Motor caravan external permanent features
This list describes the external features which are commonly seen in motor caravans, and it is intended to provide guidance on what DVLA expects to see when considering your application:


SO, it does not actually say that all of those features are mandatory. Note the the checklist wording:
"a combination of the following permanent external features."

I thought I would give it a go, as my van is about as camp as can be without going full high-top

Here is a composite:



As you can see, big bathtub roof, awning, obvious fridge vents and utility flaps, and campervan graphics.

This is the reply:



So, despite the guidance and application implying that it is only among the visible features to be expected, the high-top is effectively mandatory.

Luckily for me it wasn't a complete waste of time, as I also applied to add the 4th seat to the V5C, which is now correct. Just for the record, the V5C states 'VAN/SIDE WINDOWS'

 

[ceej]

For anyone who may come across this thread, just wanted to put a link to the updated blog post about speed limits
Campervan, Van With Windows & Motorcaravan Speed Limits (2020/2021 Update)

 

[DXX]

Good news for the 30% that stick to the speed limit!

 

[ceej]

Also on the flip side I've been dealing with NCC and it seems that NCC are trying to get the DVLA to play ball and get this decision reverted so things are classified correctly, This was sent to me this morning (I've redacted the names with XXXX):

"Good Morning XXXX,

No worries I can totally understand!

I have chatted to our Technical Director XXXX XXXX and can assure you the NCC are dealing with the issue of DVLA registrations of Motorhomes and is currently under discussion with the Department of Transport and DVLA. We are actively trying to resolve the issue and ensure those Vehicles which meet the European Directive definition of a motorhome have the body type changed to motor caravan on the V5.

This is of course for the benefit of our members and industry as a whole and highlights the benefits of being in membership of the NCC.

Let me know if there is anything else we can assist with.

Kindest Regards,

XXXX"

So it seems that this isnt over, it just takes ages for these mamoth cogs to do anything to build momentum.

Fingers crossed commonsense (which clearly aint that common) prevails. I have asked them what happens when we finally leave the EU, what directive is going to be followed then?? As the UK "directive" clearly states the definition of what a motocaravan/motorhome is already, just seems insane to then be using the EU directive especially since that currently as it stands ends on Dec 31 2020.

My main question really is about whats lurking underneath all of this change and what are they planning on sprining up next with this move, as its surely intentional to allow them to do something for tax / revenue purpose as someone earlier in the thread elluded to.

Anyway sorry for bringing up an old thread, just wanted to send my experience through and what I've dug up since.

 

[DXX]

Given the Police will be guarding Tescos from bog roll and pasta looters this winter and Boris has a few days to sort Brexit properly I think the motorcaravan / speed limit thing might slip to the bottom of the steaming pile.

 

[CAB]

For anyone who may come across this thread, just wanted to put a link to the updated blog post about speed limits
Campervan, Van With Windows & Motorcaravan Speed Limits (2020/2021 Update)

I see that Jerba still read "either" in the guidance as "both sides"

 

[ceej]

Given the Police will be guarding Tescos from bog roll and pasta looters this winter and Boris has a few days to sort Brexit properly I thing the motorcaravan / speed limit thing might slip to the bottom of the steaming pile.

Couldnt agree with you more fella!

 

[Oldrat]

Just a reality check guys, as it’s all to easy to criticise without being aware of all the facts.

It’s a fiasco yes, should it happen? no. Will it get put right? probably, in time.

Since the 2008 recession, local and national government and NGO staffing levels have been decimated but generally the workload has remained the same.

Then COVID has added to staffing absences additional workload and a change in certain priorities for some.

Public Health England, The Environment Agency Highways England and the DVLA to give just a few large agencies who are on their knees staffing wise.

None of this is helped by a lack of joined up thinking with systems and processes, which just get highlighted when organisations get stress tested
like they are at the moment.

The incorrect classification of campervans by the DVLA fiasco affects me as much as others, but I’ve worked with, alongside and at times in local govt for the last 40 years and am fully aware of their predicament.
If you run a business you’ll no doubt face similar pressures.

It’s not right, but the above posts suggest that it’s recognised and will get sorted....eventually.
so whilst I’m frustrated -it’s a right PITA, I’m also relatively chilled, there’s really a lot worse that can happen.

stay safe

 

[ceej]

For those who are interested, this is a follow up from NCC based on me asking why they are using European definitions vs UK definitions since we have a ticking clock on that relationship as it stands end of this year, so is that not just wasted effort. From what I read in their response, it sounds like a logical approach.

This is their response, again names omitted:

"Hi XXXX,

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you I was waiting on the feedback from XXXX with regards to your question about the European Directive, please see his response below;

“The reason I quote a European Directive is that even the new UK Type approval regulations are using the UNECE regulations as the reference points and these use the European Directives.

There is also a definition within the Habitation European standards which closely mirrors that which is within the Directive.

All these definitions are forming the basis of our discussion with the DVLA that their description of a motorhome be changed. We are proposing that the DVLA use the definition of a Motorhome from the European Directive (UNECE Reg) as this does not require the external items that currently the DVLA are requesting.”

I trust that this addresses your query.
Kindest Regards,
XXXX"

Enjoy the lock down everyone! I hope you have plenty of tinkering materials delivered

 

[Ayjay]

An interesting article popped up on Google News a little while ago about a ban on 'Motor Caravans' parking along the sea front at Walmer between 1800 and 0600 hrs. Does this mean that those of us who, according to DVLA and the V5, are still driving a 'Van with Side Windows' rather than a 'Motor Caravan' would still be OK to park without danger of a ticket or, at least, have an out if a ticket was issued? That said, I've no intention of ever doing it even if allowed!

Motorhomes banned from seafront after campaign

A community has succeeded in its bid to stop 'nuisance' motorhomes parking outside their homes on a prime seafront road

www.kentonline.co.uk

 

[Kind of Blue]

An interesting article popped up on Google News a little while ago about a ban on 'Motor Caravans' parking along the sea front at Walmer between 1800 and 0600 hrs. Does this mean that those of us who, according to DVLA and the V5, are still driving a 'Van with Side Windows' rather than a 'Motor Caravan' would still be OK to park without danger of a ticket or, at least, have an out if a ticket was issued? That said, I've no intention of ever doing it even if allowed!

Motorhomes banned from seafront after campaign

A community has succeeded in its bid to stop 'nuisance' motorhomes parking outside their homes on a prime seafront road

www.kentonline.co.uk

My guess would be to take some legal advice or ask the appropriate Highways department, I believe it might be a highways topic. Look very closely at the wording and see how it may apply or not. Most of my experience from millions of years ago, yes I was bourn before the dinosaurs. If something was to do with road the any proposals had to be announced in 2 places. The first place was a Local News Paper. the second place was the I have forgotten but I think that is was the London Gazette. the latter if I remembered correctly received all road closures and public announcements from around at least England. This was coved in Law. If due process was not carried out then it could go to court and be overturned. years of Tory government may have quashed that. Certainly they quashed many related laws that applied scrutiny. Anyway a CC usually can not just impose things. There may be some pressure groups either side of this argument. Have a look there may be a friendly ear. I did suggests little while back that this sort of thing will become prevalent. There are too many of us and the numbers are growing. Taxations and other penalties and restrictions will follow I am afraid.

 

[$immo]

An interesting article popped up on Google News a little while ago about a ban on 'Motor Caravans' parking along the sea front at Walmer between 1800 and 0600 hrs. Does this mean that those of us who, according to DVLA and the V5, are still driving a 'Van with Side Windows' rather than a 'Motor Caravan' would still be OK to park without danger of a ticket or, at least, have an out if a ticket was issued? That said, I've no intention of ever doing it even if allowed!

Motorhomes banned from seafront after campaign

A community has succeeded in its bid to stop 'nuisance' motorhomes parking outside their homes on a prime seafront road

www.kentonline.co.uk

I was in Deal / Walmer last weekend and saw these, I was only there through the day so the signs were not applicable. There was posted several notices on lampposts.

 

[andys]

Can’t see any legal problems in them doing this I’m afraid, yet another casualty of a situation that put thousands of people in campervans/motorhomes that wouldn’t normally consider it and that don’t give a sh!t about how they behave because next year they hope to be back vomiting outside a club in Magaluf

 

[Loz]

That is just a notice of a proposed order. Not a current restriction. It also says how to comment or object at the bottom.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

I am not surprised at orders like this being made - you should see the state of my street after a summer Sunday. It gets filled with fast food wrappers, used nappies and all sorts of vile detritus. I live 250 yards from the sea front and we always have big motorhomes parked half on the footpath and close to junctions blocking views for safe exits. There are a large number of van owners who do not give a toss as to how and where they park which spoils it for everyone. I have spent my life wild camping and have never been asked to move due to inconsiderate parking, it is not difficult to park elsewhere and not spend days parked right in front of someone's window or obstruct a driveway or even cause offence in any way.
They bring it on themselves but all suffer because of it.

 

[Kind of Blue]

That is just a notice of a proposed order. Not a current restriction. It also says how to comment or object at the bottom.

Ah, just a public notice for approval of intention. The invitation to object is for legal objection and not for any Tom, Dick and Harry to just come up with any old thing. If people want an objection to be taken seriously they need to have legaly valid reasons of objection. Anything else and it is just a petition which this is not.

 

[DXX]

Last year I found a few places in southern Portugal which had been prohibited due to massive motorhomes taking up residence and turning dunes into a car park.
There appear to be two factions of mobile chest freezer club; those who are discrete and of modest manner and those who walked into a showroom and said I want the biggest, brashest status symbol and feel need to demonstrate it to the rest.

 

[Kind of Blue]

I am not surprised at orders like this being made - you should see the state of my street after a summer Sunday. It gets filled with fast food wrappers, used nappies and all sorts of vile detritus. I live 250 yards from the sea front and we always have big motorhomes parked half on the footpath and close to junctions blocking views for safe exits. There are a large number of van owners who do not give a toss as to how and where they park which spoils it for everyone. I have spent my life wild camping and have never been asked to move due to inconsiderate parking, it is not difficult to park elsewhere and not spend days parked right in front of someone's window or obstruct a driveway or even cause offence in any way.
They bring it on themselves but all suffer because of it.

Yes it is dreadful. Similar attitudes prevail in the 4x4 and off road world. Something I had been involved with and doing for many years. Travelling and camping in vehicle on empty deserted BOATs, Byways open to All Travel and unclassified unsurfaced roads. When I started there was limited publicity. Magazines had a strict self imposed non disclosure of where various Public Rights of way where. People wanting to do this had to either visit a local County Council Rights of way office for the area of interest and research the Definitive map or join a Landrover Club and glean information from them.

Then along with the beginning of the explosion of increased 4x4 vehicles, Magazine also increased and then made it exceptionally easy for anyone to find tracks with OS grid references photographs and so on. Before that there was the odd Landrover, the occasional trail rider or perhaps a small group of either that just passed by. We could drive about and always guarantee camping up at our favourite spots in the most lovely of places completely on our own and see no one at all for over a week in some places. We kept to the correct tracks that we had researched, followed the country code, took all our rubbish away and so on. We loved the wild life, the country and respected other users. After leaving it would be impossible for anyone to see where we had parked or camped.

Things changed very much for the worse. The easier it was for people to locate where to go by spoon feeding them then the hordes descended, started tearing things up leaving rubbish and so on. Just like in the T6 World loads of garages started specialising in every kind of kit both for camping and off-roading. Soon many of the yobbo types became bored, the off-road trucks became so tricked up that they started venturing away from the official rights of way and tearing up anything that they fancied, including fences. It was not just 4x4 either but instead of the very pleasant and genial put put trial rider, it was the tricked up enduro or scrambler who occasionally would turn up blasting along at exceptionally high speed. They would think nothing at all about just venturing off the track up any hill that hey fancied. Sheep scattering and so on. One track with lots of river crossings had a mountain bothy, tucked away in the Forrest. We would make friends with some of the ramblers some of whom we would recognise over the years. Very rarely we would be invited over to have a drink with the ramblers. There was no animosity between the different types of pursuits back then. We might leave some cans of food or candles occasionally at the bothy when we left the area for the lonley stranded walker. On doing so on on occasion a group of 4x4 with an organised Safari Company had stopped over night some in the bothy making fires and so on and a general hullabaloo. After they left the next day, we checked over the bothy. It had been defecated in, all over the bunk and floor and generally left a mess leaving the outside door open. It took us hours to clean it up. We had to remove the shit and scrub the bunk. By the way we never used this hut but we did look in on it from time to time to check it and leave something useful perhaps.

It is my view that the easier things are made for people, the more contemptible they become. The more popular things become then the more likely that what was once good will become bad. Were once a small proportion of people who spoil things for the many, it becomes the many spoiling things for the few. It is just human nature unfortunately.

So think very carefully before giving someone your favourite hidden camping spot. Do not pass on those things to online resources because they will soon not be those hidden gems but tips full of lazy people who will spoil your very special place

 

[Urbanfox]

The human nature bit seems rife with Brits who don't give a toss for anyone or anything. You don't need to go into the wilds to see it, you just need to look at the state of our streets with litter everywhere and chewing gum like bird droppings on every pavement flag. My real pet hate is bloody litter.

 

[Kind of Blue]

The human nature bit seems rife with Brits who don't give a toss for anyone or anything. You don't need to go into the wilds to see it, you just need to look at the state of our streets with litter everywhere and chewing gum like bird droppings on every pavement flag. My real pet hate is bloody litter.

"The human nature bit seems rife with Brits who don't give a toss for anyone or anything."

"Brits who don't give a toss for anyone or anything." This is the most apt part of the comment comment I feel. Though it is most definatly not every one but is a sizeable majority.