V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019

[Lord Mfwic]

What is the potential issue if you were to sleep in your 'campervan' in a pub car park after a few beers (as in the case of a lot of Brit Stop's) vs doing the same in just a 'van'. If the V5 doesn't reflect the fact that it is legally fitted with sleeping accommodation then it opens up the owner's to prosecution for being in charge of a motor vehicle whilst intoxicated. ie you are then unable to use the reasoning that you are 'sleeping' not 'driving'?

Sorry to go off thread slightly but this would apply to all who's van is not registered as a camper.

We sleep in our Kombi, back seats out, £99.00 Ikea bed in the back.
Am I leaving myself at risk of prosecution for DD if the police knocked on my door after a few beers whilst camping in a pub car park or anywhere for that matter?
I only have a swivelling passenger seat which is in its normal position if we are just stopping for 1 night and the keys would be in my possession.

Does anyone know of any times this has happened and the proceeding outcome?

 

[$immo]

So I can't find any fact to the following as I got it as "Intelligence only" from a good government source but if true it would go some way to explain the change in DVLA stance on the Motor Caravan V5.

Apparently in 2020 there will be a one off 1st year of registration taxation on all Motor Caravans then an ongoing lower vehicle excise licence after the 1st year. In order to prevent the professional converters and DIY'ers buying a van (whether VW / Ducato etc) avoiding the initial 1st year high tax and then registering it as a 1 yr old Motor Caravan once the tax goes down.
Hence only factory registered motor caravans will be allowed to maintain the Motor Caravan status as they will have to pay the high tax from the off.

When I asked why would they want to hit Motor Caravan owners with higher tax in 1st year. The answer was that a number of Motor caravans are outside of the new ULEZ charges and there are more and more "vans" not being charged as they are MC's on the V5.

The DVLA don't want to tax MC's high all the time as it would cripple the 2nd hand market.

Just passing on what I heard, not sure it all makes sense, but there may or may not be some truth in it. In essence I believe there will be no more "normal" van conversions like the majority on here registered as Motor Caravans in the future.

As stated none of this is fact, just some informed rumours, perhaps someone with some good research may be able to find something about the new Motor Caravan taxation on the horizon.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Sorry to go off thread slightly but this would apply to all who's van is not registered as a camper.

We sleep in our Kombi, back seats out, £99.00 Ikea bed in the back.
Am I leaving myself at risk of prosecution for DD if the police knocked on my door after a few beers whilst camping in a pub car park or anywhere for that matter?
I only have a swivelling passenger seat which is in its normal position if we are just stopping for 1 night and the keys would be in my possession.

Does anyone know of any times this has happened and the proceeding outcome?

The law doesn’t discriminate between motorhomes/campers/ordinary vehicles etc. It’s if you can prove that you weren’t “in charge”. If you’re sat in the drivers seat with the keys in the ignition, then you’ll struggle. If you’re in your Jimmy jams with the blinds in the windows & the bed out, then you have a defence.
We never leave the keys in the ignition when we’re parked up & we normally put the front blinds in as soon as we’re settled.

 

[Lord Mfwic]

The law doesn’t discriminate between motorhomes/campers/ordinary vehicles etc. It’s if you can prove that you weren’t “in charge”. If you’re sat in the drivers seat with the keys in the ignition, then you’ll struggle. If you’re in your Jimmy jams with the blinds in the windows & the bed out, then you have a defence.
We never leave the keys in the ignition when we’re parked up & we normally put the front blinds in as soon as we’re settled.

That makes sense. Thank you, I was getting a tad worried there.

 

[$immo]

That makes sense. Thank you, I was getting a tad worried there.

As @Salty Spuds said, it's a subjective test by both the Police and later the court. As stated do everything you can to show you had no intention of driving whilst under the influence,,PJ's, key away from ignition, alarm set for 9am etc etc.
You should be fine.

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

The law doesn’t discriminate between motorhomes/campers/ordinary vehicles etc. It’s if you can prove that you weren’t “in charge”. If you’re sat in the drivers seat with the keys in the ignition, then you’ll struggle. If you’re in your Jimmy jams with the blinds in the windows & the bed out, then you have a defence.
We never leave the keys in the ignition when we’re parked up & we normally put the front blinds in as soon as we’re settled.

I have surfing friend who was charged by police up near Thurso for being Drunk in charge of a vehicle while fast asleep naked in a sleeping bag. He was in the fully reclined drivers seat of an Audi Estate and there were two other happy campers also fast asleep in the car. The keys were in the ignition but it was not on. They were off the road near a beach.
He pleaded not guilty and went to court where it was thrown out because he was adjudged to be clearly not in charge of the vehicle. Cost him a great deal of money and effort though not to mention the stress.
I think a lot rests on the common sense of the police in cases like this, maybe it was a really boring night shift for them that night!
Anyway back to the DVLA it’s all about getting money for tax, congestion charging and fines. Like our police friends someone has given them a target or KPI to meet.

 

[Kwp0906]

Has anyone successfully challenged the dvla only putting "van with windows" even though all of the department for transport guidance has been followed?

 

[mackmaya]

Hi all, pretty sure there has been a change in legislation, bacicly if it's not a California it's not classed as a camper...

 

[Kwp0906]

Surely the dvla have to honour the dft's guidance until such a time as it is amended in the public domain.

 

[Loz]

Hi all, pretty sure there has been a change in legislation, bacicly if it's not a California it's not classed as a camper...

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, since March Californias are no longer MH but now MPV

 

[James1000]

Not sure what all the fuss is about - just about to apply don’t see any problems or challenges !!

 

[Base1388]

It's all about "being in charge" of the vehicle. If you can prove that you weren't in charge at the time off the alleged offence, then you have a defence. The test is; were you likely to, or intending to drive the vehicle at the time whilst you were under the influence? If you have the seats swivelled, roof up, bed down, blinds in, key out of the ignition etc, the prosecution would have a hard time proving you were "in charge".

Sounds like a good reason to list this argument in a covering letter to me !

 

[Kwp0906]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, since March Californias are no longer MH but now MPV

I read somewhere that MPV's have a maximum weight of just over 2 tonnes, if true how are VW getting the California's registered?

 

[Loz]

I read somewhere that MPV's have a maximum weight of just over 2 tonnes, if true how are VW getting the California's registered?

Probably not true then, as the Cali is 3080.

 

[j4ckal]

Being part way through my conversion, and rushing to get it done so I could change the log book, I was quite annoyed at first. Especially as it was so easy when I did the T4.I thought it quite refreshing how how the DVLA made it easy to do rather than over complicating as usual.

There was obviously some financial gain to be had/loop holes to close so the above reason makes sense, nothing to do with it being externally recognisable by the police and all the other excuses.

Insurance wise though it probably won't make that much difference, my van will be going onto a modified policy and is slightly cheaper than the previous motorhome/camper/motorcaravan one. Only issue is the contents (ie. camping specific stuff) cover is not as good and not as much European cover.

The speed limit side is quite annoying still, but having a TSI it'll save me some cash I guess

 

[Loz]

Being part way through my conversion, and rushing to get it done so I could change the log book, I was quite annoyed at first. Especially as it was so easy when I did the T4.I thought it quite refreshing how how the DVLA made it easy to do rather than over complicating as usual.

There was obviously some financial gain to be had/loop holes to close so the above reason makes sense, nothing to do with it being externally recognisable by the police and all the other excuses.

Insurance wise though it probably won't make that much difference, my van will be going onto a modified policy and is slightly cheaper than the previous motorhome/camper/motorcaravan one. Only issue is the contents (ie. camping specific stuff) cover is not as good and not as much European cover.

The speed limit side is quite annoying still, but having a TSI it'll save me some cash I guess

I guess you will be able to achieve MPV?

 

[j4ckal]

I guess you will be able to achieve MPV?

Yes, if the new California is then I can't see why not? It'll solve the speed limit issue.
I'm guessing no one has done this?

 

[Teesix]

If any help on the matter,

When I got my v5 back in March this year, successfully showing motor caravan,
I do know I went over board with the pictures, I think I sent near on 20 pics.
Showing the side door open and the view inside with the bed up and bed down.
Gas on / gas off , water running too.
Even the tailgate open with the cupboards open showing the water and waste.
I felt at the time i might have over done it......maybe I bored the person to death lol.

Prob thinking about it I had more windows put in on the Kombi, and have had a few people say, is it a lwb.
It might help to send a before and after pic too. To remind them what a van van looks like. Then what the conversion looks like.

I don't think the number of pictures you send them actually makes that much difference. In contrast to your experience, I simply sent them the bare minimum (5 pictures and no covering letter) and they still changed the log book to motor caravan.

This was also in March so I guess these new changes will have been brought in since then.

 

[RichDavies82]

What’s your experience with this @CamperKing are you struggling to get the V5’s changed now?

 

[Keepad]

So I am correct in saying new conversions will not be classified motor caravan on the V5 anymore ?

This is now making me hold off getting my conversion done, on my older T5 I had to provide a proof of build to for my insurance.

No way could I spend all my money on a camper conversion if I can’t get the conversion insured, maybe I’m over thinking it all.