VB air ride failure - what replacement?

[Kind of Blue]

It is a great pity , VB air are clients of KONI , BUT they dont buy the KONI dampers for the transporter kits ??? , It probably wouldnt help the issue that so many people are having with the fronts deflating with out warning but the kit would ride miles better . The VB Air front strut has a very unusual upper mount so replacing the dampers with something better is probably not doable .

VB Air and KONI are both Dutch or were. I guess it was down to costs for VB Air. They do not seem to change much from what they started from. I think from memory, it was approximately £7 and a half thousand plus something, its on there website to fit VB so they could be more accommodating with design or what ever. Perhaps the Transporter revenue was very small compared to the rest of VB Air catalogue including trucks and what not. KONI as you know also have a huge base to supply , trains F1 and anything and every car imaginable. No doubt several versions for each. I like the top adjustable dampers, it is a pity that they did not extend that to the rear dampers. It becomes more of a pain taking them off or partially removing, then compressing to move to the next position. Particularly as one gets older and when working in the filth on a small holding. I have noticed the KONI racing dampers, that some are adjustable separately for compression and rebound and it looks like they can be adjusted on the vehicle which would be very nice and convenient. I also imagine Expensive ££ perhaps and that they would need setting up in advance for a staring point on any particular vehicle and then settle for a range that the valving might operate in between. Quite surprised that some of these have not been directed towards the enthusiast.

I am not very Keen on Bilstein. Though among there range include dampers that are adjustable some have separate compression and rebound adjustment. Unfortunately they all seem from what I detect, directed at Bum Scrapers and not those looking for any sort of lift. I think that they also cater for air but probably standard production I guess.

Air as an after-market, is probably a very small market. It is hard enough to convince many even that they that they would be better off changing original fit dampers for better quality units. It is also the same with tyres. Their are those who always want the best for there particular circumstances, those who just want posing rights and those that do no even bother checking there tyre pressures. The latter possibly just fit any old generic tyre that fits and costs the least.

 

[Fivetones]

This is veering off the topic a touch but the triple bellows Solow Air systems look interesting. I’ve had quite a few cars on air using various models of Airlift over the last 15 years but never been fully satisfied with the quality either of damping or how the air springs deliver throughout the height range. Of course the physics of air pressures always means that a swamper style air system would get bouncy unless kept within a narrow height range.

 

[CRS Performance]

This is veering off the topic a touch but the triple bellows Solow Air systems look interesting. I’ve had quite a few cars on air using various models of Airlift over the last 15 years but never been fully satisfied with the quality either of damping or how the air springs deliver throughout the height range. Of course the physics of air pressures always means that a swamper style air system would get bouncy unless kept within a narrow height range.

VB air isnt a "Show pony" type system its purely for camp site levelling etc , it defaults to 20 mm once in motion i believe.

The triple bellow bag system i would guess is to allow the van to drive much lower than standard with sufficient air that the ride isnt affected too much >??

 

[Fivetones]

Absolutely on the show pony air point Steve, VB seems to be more like OEM air systems in intended purpose. Pity it isn’t more robust.

As I say I was veering off topic mentioning Airlift . I know from experience that double bellows work better than the single (also more robust to damage/wear in the bellow). I guess the thinking for the triple is more of the same.

 

[The Van Cave]

There is an alternative after market system available that offers usable lift of up to approx. 60mm above standard ride height, whilst still offering a comfortable ride at, or close to, standard ride heights. It uses double bellow continental bags with Bilstein front struts and rear shocks. It can also run lower and air out fairly low, but it's not a show pony kit, it's designed specifically for those wanting comfort and a big lift when required. It's the most practical aftermarket solution I've seen and having fitted a few of these kits I would say they are exceptional.

Paired with the right management it can also offer self levelling for camping.

The triple bellow front bag is an interesting solution. I don't personally like the triple bellow rear bag. With the upper and lower mounting surfaces not being parallel, the triple bellow rear bag can balloon outwards towards the rear of the vehicle, which I think could lead to some reliability issues.

 

[CRS Performance]

The trade customers we deal with that do Air like to sell and fit VB Air because of the VW approval and i think warranty work can be covered by the VB air national fitment centres ?? I might be mis led here , but it would make sense as national support is a good thing .

 

[t0mb0]

The trade customers we deal with that do Air like to sell and fit VB Air because of the VW approval and i think warranty work can be covered by the VB air national fitment centres ?? I might be mis led here , but it would make sense as national support is a good thing .

I agree in theory, although the VB dealer network in the UK is pretty sparse if their own webpage is to be believed. Or do they have more trade outlets than is implied on their standard dealer list?

Also, I'd really like your opinion on the absolute level of reliability of the VB system @CRS Performance given you must see a fair amount of this stuff. How reliable do you think it actually is? On the one hand, you hear some horror stories, but on the other hand the internet is always full of horror stories as the people that are quietly happy don't tend to post. Plus the fact that it's fitted to ambulances and the like makes you think it can't be too unreliable? I'm asking as I've had VB fitted for years with no issues but have no real way to gauge the overall reliability.

 

[CRS Performance]

I agree in theory, although the VB dealer network in the UK is pretty sparse if their own webpage is to be believed. Or do they have more trade outlets than is implied on their standard dealer list?

Also, I'd really like your opinion on the absolute level of reliability of the VB system @CRS Performance given you must see a fair amount of this stuff. How reliable do you think it actually is? On the one hand, you hear some horror stories, but on the other hand the internet is always full of horror stories as the people that are quietly happy don't tend to post. Plus the fact that it's fitted to ambulances and the like makes you think it can't be too unreliable? I'm asking as I've had VB fitted for years with no issues but have no real way to gauge the overall reliability.

After applying to be a dealer of theirs 6 years ago , we u turned on it because frankly i wasnt impressed with their attitude !! , The stuff they do for ambulances etc is Probably their biggest money spinner and this probably makes them think they are a cut above the rest . . In reality we have removed 6 kits from customers vans over the last 4 years , I am sure they sell a lot more than that ha ha . Some of these guys simply couldnt get support near them and some had had multiple failures and just decided to bail after a heavy bill ot two !

Personally i dont find the kits value for money as the ride isnt great for the price tag .

 

[Kind of Blue]

The trade customers we deal with that do Air like to sell and fit VB Air because of the VW approval and i think warranty work can be covered by the VB air national fitment centres ?? I might be mis led here , but it would make sense as national support is a good thing .

I think that VB Air might have been on a tick list of options quite a few years ago and then VW dropped it from the options list but still accepted it as part of homologation or something, in any case having it would not affect warranty and as you have indicated they have a big support network. That could be very important for guys doing lots of touring or long distance work. For guys doing short stuff perhaps riding around low bums on the floor around their local back yard with one or two trips not an issue they can get AA or RAC to take them home but VB Air have coverage right across Europe. I am not sure how affective all that might be but it would be a big puller. The best thing that a manufacturer of any product like Air What ever, could do, would be to set up a National Network of support so that someone working away from home or an a holiday trip what ever might be able to look up the nearest dealer for Air What Ever and get some help at least to get them home or to be able to carry on there journey. Perhaps even form a Consortium to carry a few bit and pieces that regularly brake or go wrong with even a competing Air company. Like being less, "that’s not one of ours piss off" to "Yes we can do that, replace the other and you can carry on your journey or get you home".

 

[t0mb0]

After applying to be a dealer of theirs 6 years ago , we u turned on it because frankly i wasnt impressed with their attitude !! , The stuff they do for ambulances etc is Probably their biggest money spinner and this probably makes them think they are a cut above the rest . . In reality we have removed 6 kits from customers vans over the last 4 years , I am sure they sell a lot more than that ha ha . Some of these guys simply couldnt get support near them and some had had multiple failures and just decided to bail after a heavy bill ot two !

Personally i dont find the kits value for money as the ride isnt great for the price tag .

Thanks @CRS Performance, I agree it's not the best value if you're looking to optimise ride quality, it's really camper usage where it comes into its own to cope with very variable loads, auto-levelling when parked up and sneaking under 2m barriers!

I guess the absolute level of reliability is still an open question, 4 removals in 6 years is hard to interpret without knowing the size of the installed base I suppose.

 

[Kind of Blue]

There is an alternative after market system available that offers usable lift of up to approx. 60mm above standard ride height, whilst still offering a comfortable ride at, or close to, standard ride heights. It uses double bellow continental bags with Bilstein front struts and rear shocks. It can also run lower and air out fairly low, but it's not a show pony kit, it's designed specifically for those wanting comfort and a big lift when required. It's the most practical aftermarket solution I've seen and having fitted a few of these kits I would say they are exceptional.

Paired with the right management it can also offer self levelling for camping.

The triple bellow front bag is an interesting solution. I don't personally like the triple bellow rear bag. With the upper and lower mounting surfaces not being parallel, the triple bellow rear bag can balloon outwards towards the rear of the vehicle, which I think could lead to some reliability issues.

I believe that you do very good quality work with attention to detail. However their are a number of issues that I can see for me if I went your way. I am not sure how comparisons are made between manufacturers when assessing heights.
Are they are all compared ins the same way for instance that is for minimum height and maximum height. One way that seems universal and has been adopted by many on the forum is from the centre of the wheel to the wheel arch directly above.

My particular use is Off-Road. I need to have Clarence. I live Off-Road and drive Off-Road virtually every day just to get in and out of the property a remote Small Holding it is an absolute necessity. Maximum attainable height is of interest even though I may then air down to a less elevated height after navigating an obstetrical or after fording for instance.
If I decide or need to travel further afield for Camping or travelling travelling off-road, greenlaning, I would like to be able to air down to allow access to Low Gate Areas so that I can drive underneath. I then need a levelling facility for camping up on uneven or sloping ground. I have had quite enough of using wedges or putting up with rolling around down hill when asleep. So Auto Levelling is important
A thing that concerns me about So Low, is that If a fault occurs and the vehicle then bottoms out and is unable to perhaps reinflate, is the lowest a system might go high enough to drive off. Some of the imagery of vehicles that I have seen, is unacceptably low for me. It is not very sensible for the default or a faulting system to be so low that it could not navigate moderate terrain without hazard. In other words the lowest I want to go is just enough to get under a barrier and very little further. perhaps being able to reinflate from an air line or tyre pump may also be usefull.
I am biased toward KONI and have used them for many, many years on quite a number of different vehicles. I have always then used KONI Adjustable Dampers. One, I like to adjust for ride and handling myself and not just accept a one for all and everybody setting and two for ware and possibly 3 for type of use. I realise that some Bilstein's can be re-valved but on its own that is not good-enough. I need adjust-ability. Now I have seen on a catalogue that Blisteine have dampers with adjustable damping and for both rebound and bump. The down side is I only see them for lowered vehicles! Do Bilsteine produce these Dampers with adjustable damping for my needs? Thank you for your considerations.

 

[Richard f]

Thanks for that. I too have had vb fitted to my transporter and its rubbish. I have never been satisfied with it, it bounced me around from day one.. i had anti roll bars upgraded and it made it a little better to drive in comfort mode but sports mode is useless.. Now im getting a banging coming from under the divers side,, I am being told i may need new bags which are £1000 each.. this is not acceptable after just a few years.. Vb know about this problem and has not done nothing to help,, I've spoken to Steve who has had to remove these systems and patch up the rear end as they cut things out to fit ,which is something i was not told about at fitting.. I am now considering removing vb air and going with Steves advice.. I will be making a video of the removel and throwing my £6000 system in a skip..

Hi I had vb air and removed the front shocks but kept the rear system. I know you said that you will skip system but could you not put the parts up for sale

 

[CRS Performance]

I believe that you do very good quality work with attention to detail. However their are a number of issues that I can see for me if I went your way. I am not sure how comparisons are made between manufacturers when assessing heights.
Are they are all compared ins the same way for instance that is for minimum height and maximum height. One way that seems universal and has been adopted by many on the forum is from the centre of the wheel to the wheel arch directly above.

My particular use is Off-Road. I need to have Clarence. I live Off-Road and drive Off-Road virtually every day just to get in and out of the property a remote Small Holding it is an absolute necessity. Maximum attainable height is of interest even though I may then air down to a less elevated height after navigating an obstetrical or after fording for instance.
If I decide or need to travel further afield for Camping or travelling travelling off-road, greenlaning, I would like to be able to air down to allow access to Low Gate Areas so that I can drive underneath. I then need a levelling facility for camping up on uneven or sloping ground. I have had quite enough of using wedges or putting up with rolling around down hill when asleep. So Auto Levelling is important
A thing that concerns me about So Low, is that If a fault occurs and the vehicle then bottoms out and is unable to perhaps reinflate, is the lowest a system might go high enough to drive off. Some of the imagery of vehicles that I have seen, is unacceptably low for me. It is not very sensible for the default or a faulting system to be so low that it could not navigate moderate terrain without hazard. In other words the lowest I want to go is just enough to get under a barrier and very little further. perhaps being able to reinflate from an air line or tyre pump may also be usefull.
I am biased toward KONI and have used them for many, many years on quite a number of different vehicles. I have always then used KONI Adjustable Dampers. One, I like to adjust for ride and handling myself and not just accept a one for all and everybody setting and two for ware and possibly 3 for type of use. I realise that some Bilstein's can be re-valved but on its own that is not good-enough. I need adjust-ability. Now I have seen on a catalogue that Blisteine have dampers with adjustable damping and for both rebound and bump. The down side is I only see them for lowered vehicles! Do Bilsteine produce these Dampers with adjustable damping for my needs? Thank you for your considerations.

Just a point on the comment about re valving Bilstein dampers , Most of the kits built specially for the transporter market here in UK have private label status , This is easy to check by visiting the Bilstein Web site , If the kit isnt on their web site it isnt a catalogue part and will be a private label . , My experience of this is that the dampers aren't serviceable and there for cant be re valved I know this because there was a South African customer on this forum looking for suspension upgrades and was taken in by the B14 comments , He bought a kit here shipped it to SA and fitted it. 1 year later it failed and he took it to a friend of mine who was the importer for Bilstein . He jokingly said this isnt a Bilstein kit and cant be opened serviced or re valved .

I would also question how reliable these vans are lifted 60 mm from standard ?? there would be many other mods needed to do this reliably ?? Bump steer , drive shaft angles etc need consideration ??

Bump and rebound dampers are rarely used in road cars for obvious reasons , KW V3 as an example has bump and rebound adjustment but cant do lifts at all ( cant even do standard height )

 

[Sasquatch]

Dampers work by forcing oil through an orifice(s) or past a shim stack. There are no valves in there.

Bilstein use the orifice method.

 

[Kind of Blue]

Dampers work by forcing oil through an orifice(s) or past a shim stack. There are no valves in there.

Bilstein use the orifice method.

I used the words re valved loosely, I know that some Bilstein dampers can have the damping rate changed because a Bilstein sales outlet a few years ago suggested to me that If I was unhappy with the rate of damping he would re valve them his words he did explain how he achieved it. It matters not to me particularly what method is actually used to control the damping force unless it is proven disaster or miraculously better . I did not buy them it seemed far too messy and involved taking them apart to just change the rate. I do not particularly like Bilstein in any case. Of course I have not tried all of them but those in vehicles that I have driven always seamed under-damped. I have only ever bought Adjustable Damping when buying KONI and have found that one can make very noticeable changes. The Top Adjustable are very convenient to use but on the T6 and on many other vehicles require the rear to be at least partially removed to allow them to be fully compressed before adjustment. I do know that KONI make dampers for competition that do not require removal as they have have external adjusters. I also know that Bilstein has dampers with external adjusters for changing damping rate but I have only seen them on shorter dampers. Years ago I was fortunate in having a car with Struts all round so could have top adjustable at each corner.

 

[CRS Performance]

Dampers work by forcing oil through an orifice(s) or past a shim stack. There are no valves in there.

Bilstein use the orifice method.

The term re valving generally means adding shims to the shim stack Yes . KONI are the only people I know who have a Patented Valve cartridge system that we simply replace to change the characteristics of the low speed damping forces . This gives a more "consistent characteristic change" ! ( their words ) than changing shims even on very high spring rates . ??

 

[Kind of Blue]

I have seen KW but looked away.

 

[Kind of Blue]

The term re valving generally means adding shims to the shim stack Yes . KONI are the only people I know who have a Patented Valve cartridge system that we simply replace to change the characteristics of the low speed damping forces . This gives a more "consistent characteristic change" ! ( their words ) than changing shims even on very high spring rates . ??

Have been a fan of KONI for many years, even fitted a set of adjustable dampers on a LR 101 Forward Control, early 90's I think it was. I have never had a KONI leak or fail I just wish that they would find another method of adjustment for the non top adjustable, for the sake of user convenience.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Just for balance. We have VB 4C air on our t6 LWB 4mot & love it. It’s now getting on for 8 yrs old & has been faultless. I would have no hesitation on having it fitted to our next van. As already said, it isn’t a “Show Pony” system, it’s a workhorse & does what it says on the tin.

 

[CRS Performance]

I have seen KW but looked away.

You may not remember , But when KW first came on to the market (80 s ) all the dampers in their kits were purchased from KONI . the conflict in the market between the two brands prompted KONI to with draw from this arrangement some years later , but i suspect KW had already learnt a lot from this relationship and it is the reason we rate KW better than older tech from B ___ .