2017 204 - DPF Filter at 60g soot above 50g forced regen limit

[xop32]

if we are getting reading on Particulate Filter Restriction - Soot Accumulation Bank 1 as the fault, what is the postion of that sensor at bank 1,

is it just before the Diesel particulate filter with SCR trap catalytic converter as in post #17 or

is it just before the Oxidation catalytic convertor as in post #17

would simply removing the the Diesel particulate filter with SCR trap catalytic converter off the car, back flushing it threw/ cleaning it , bring down the soot value from the 60g level to below 50g? or does the Oxidation catalytic convertor need cleaning as well

 

[DXX]

if we are getting reading on Particulate Filter Restriction - Soot Accumulation Bank 1 as the fault, what is the postion of that sensor at bank 1,

is it just before the Diesel particulate filter with SCR trap catalytic converter as in post #17 or

is it just before the Oxidation catalytic convertor as in post #17

would simply removing the the Diesel particulate filter with SCR trap catalytic converter off the car, back flushing it threw/ cleaning it , bring down the soot value from the 60g level to below 50g? or does the Oxidation catalytic convertor need cleaning as well

I’d be contacting a company that specialises in DPF cleaning, they might be free flowing with the advice / method while giving you a quote.
You can then decide whether to do it yourself.
I’m no expert but I gather from what I’ve read that the SCAT sensors are easily damaged and any ports can block with soot which probably won’t be easily cleaned with a back flush.
Google should provide you with a specialist.

 

[mmi]

if we are getting reading on Particulate Filter Restriction - Soot Accumulation Bank 1 as the fault, what is the postion of that sensor at bank 1,

For normal operation the soot mass values are just calculated values from amount of fuel burned and exhaust temperatures in the DPF (a bit simplified)

would simply removing the the Diesel particulate filter with SCR trap catalytic converter off the car, back flushing it threw/ cleaning it , bring down the soot value from the 60g level to below 50g?

Cleaning or even replacing the DPF won't bring the soot values down. You have to use the function below to reset the values.

does the Oxidation catalytic convertor need cleaning as well

Not needed to clear this fault.

Just to guestimate risks of tricking the engine by resetting the soot values
could you please provide the following data from the ODIS (ignition ON, engine not running)

IDE00432 Particle filter: time since last regeneration​

IDE00434 Particle filter: soot mass calculated​

IDE00435 Particle filter: soot mass measured​

IDE00436 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration​

IDE01407 Particle filter: fuel consumption since last regeneration​

IDE06059 Particulate filter: oil ash mass​

Do you know how to use ODIS to monitor in real time engine parameters? Would be a good idea to monitor temperatures along the exhaust when the DPF regen is finally triggered.

We could also try to estimate actual DPF blockage before/after by monitoring the engine parameters below - just engine idling 830 rpm:

(IDE00021 Engine RPM)​

IDE00347 Air mass: actual value​

IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value​

IDE07757 Exhaust recirc.valve 1 bank 1: posit.feedback - Actual value​

​

 

[Howzat]

I too wondered if tricking the ECU to bring the soot levels down enough to allow a regen to take place might work. So in this instance change the levels from 60 to 45, then run the regen, then once completed add the 15 back but then you have to wonder why the DPF has become so blocked to begin with and why the past regens haven't kept the soot levels down? Maybe bad oil or lots of short journeys or something worse. If something worse then cleaning the DPF may only be a short term solution anyway.

 

[Broadside]

If there is too much soot it risks going uncontrollable during the regen and cause a vehicle fire, I think this is what @mmi was referring to up thread.

I agree with you that the reason for the excess soot needs to be understood as it is likely the symptom of something else. If it was just the outcome of a load of short journeys that never allowed a regen to complete then great.

 

[kurienp]

Is there someone near about you who has a Carista. It seems Carista does not have any constraints on when/how a regen can be initiated. Worth a try before taking the thing apart

 

[Mick]

Thank god for my Carista . After advice on here I did a 2hour drive on force regen, using the Carista app and went from 30% soot to 6%. Would that work?

 

[xop32]

thanks mmi, but i did start on removing the dpf just before you posted that information about the values requested



when i get the dpf cleaned and put back on the van i will get the data you requested, i am hoping that after seeing what came out of the dpf filter, that the van will show the soot levels below 50g when its all put back on

i am not sure how to use odis to monitor temperatures along the exhaust, should i be looking to montior all the sensors on a regen


my concern about reseting the values on the dpf and then doing a forced regen was causing a engine fire, its alot safter to just pull it off and clean it to avoid that probelm occuring, to be fair on the first clen of the dpf, i was supprized how blocked it seemed to be, i tried to put a hose threw, it at fisrt and there was no water flow on the exhaust flow side and when back flushing


i have used dishwasher tablets for the first stage of the clean , 2 dishwasher tablets per 2 liters of water, i left it soaking overnight and was suprised on the about of soot and ash deposits that came out, lots of flushing in both directions and now there is a steady stream of water passing threw it, (compared to no water flow on first removal)

i am now soaking it again over night for a second round of dishwasher tablets flushing

i then with buy some brick acid from b and q and do a 2 hour flush with 1/4 acid to 3/4 parts water
theres a good video on youtube about this going into quite some detph



the way the dpf is shaped is ideal for placing it onto a chair to leave the cleaning agents to soak



The big question i have now is do i need to remove the OXIDATION CATALYTIC CONVERTER to clean it as well , heres a picture of it, i did not want to remove and clean it unless is really needs it, as my fault was dpf related and then saying to replace the dpf, is it totaly unrelated to the OXIDATION CATALYTIC CONVERTER

 

[xop32]

as for the black soot comming out of the dpf, it did not seem that bad as alot of videos you see on youtube, there seems to be alot of white/ greyish ash comming out of it when cleaning


if there is an engine problem, burning oil or suchlike i would guess you would see heavy black soot in the dpf, i am just hoping its just a simple blockage

 

[mmi]

The big question i have now is do i need to remove the OXIDATION CATALYTIC CONVERTER to clean it as well , heres a picture of it, i did not want to remove and clean it unless is really needs it, as my fault was dpf related and then saying to replace the dpf, is it totaly unrelated to the OXIDATION CATALYTIC CONVERTER

No need to do anything with the catalytic converter.

 

[mmi]

thanks mmi, but i did start on removing the dpf just before you posted that information about the values requested

Well, if it's not too much trouble it still might be useful to capture the following next time you turn ignition on (before any adaptations) - for future reference.

IDE00432 Particle filter: time since last regeneration​

IDE00434 Particle filter: soot mass calculated​

IDE00435 Particle filter: soot mass measured​

IDE00436 Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration​

IDE01407 Particle filter: fuel consumption since last regeneration​

IDE06059 Particulate filter: oil ash mass​

 

[Howzat]

Fair plays for having a go at this. Fingers crossed it pays off.

 

[xop32]

i have just refitted the dpf after 2 flushes with dishwasher tablets, left to soak overnight each time and then a 2 hour soak with the brick acid solution 1/4 part acid to 3/4 parts water

after refitting the sot values came back as 32.2g down from the first 60g recorded

i have simply adapted the dpf values (took a pick of the values before resetting), cleared all the codes and now everything seems error free


do i now need to do a forced regen on it??

or do i just simply take it on long runs to try to get the regen process going

fingers crossed, this was a bit of a pain to do, but only ending up costing £8 for a pack of dishwasher tablets ( i went for the best ones) and £6 on brick cleaning acid from b+q

i had a snapped bolt on the exhaust rear sleeve, that cost £10 to replace and one of the front exhaust bolts snapped to and had to be drilled out and a replacement bolt sourced from tps


thinking about it now , i should have done a double flushing process, by repeating the process again but on the second time flushing it with something like the wyns off car dpf cleaning fluid, i would then maybe seen a soot value of around 20g ish

i am just hoping it stays fine, is there anything i should do now tho after apdating the dpf values?? is a forced regen required

 

[Howzat]

It's below 50 now and not showing errors so hopefully the van should take care of the regen process itself. I'd stick some quality juice in and run it like normal checking the soot levels every 20-30 miles hoping a regen will take place in another 50 miles or so. With a bit of luck the soot level will drop right down after a full regen.

Where did you get the 32.2g reading from? Was that the 'soot mass measured' value after the flush?

Looking at this thread the regen should take place pretty quickly otherwise your light may come on again after a few miles so maybe you could trigger a forced regen and once it starts take the van for a 20-30 mile trip along a motorway at 2k+ revs. Once the regen has completed (you'll notice the revs drop from 1000 to 800 when idling when standing still) measure the soot again to see if it's reduced further.

The unknown for me are the other stored values for the particulate filter and what effect these will have on the automatic regen process going forward.

 

[xop32]

the 32.2g reading came from odis




what is the difference between load measured and load calculated??

the load measured is the real values as i must have removed around 28g during the cleaning process, the calculated value is that just a guess realating to the old blockage

and by now adapating the values have i just reset them all to 0g or is the van smart enough to reajust everything, i am thinking i need to get more readings to see what the levels are now at on the van

i connected the computer up again after refitting the dpf filter and then ran the self diagnostics again in odis, this time when trying to start a forced regen, odis measures the values calcualting the soot values

the forced regen never take place as it says in odis to adapt the values like in my first post, which i then proceeded to do, it will not do a regen without that, i guess in most cases a new dpf would have been fitted at this stage

after that, i turned everything off and on, done another self check and everything reset itself and seems fine

i took on a few miles test drive and all seems ok, but like you said, maybe a longer run down the motorway at higher revs is needed and then recheck the soot levels

i will give that a go tomorrow and see how it goes

 

[Broadside]

Have you got the VAG DPF app? It gives a pictorial to show what is happening before and after regen. At that soot level I would expect it to kick in within a few mins of starting the engine and driving, if it’s not then something must be preventing the regen from happening, either because of those adaptations or something faulty like a sensor that is not working so it can’t kick things off.

If the regen won’t start then you are going to get that massive soot build up all over again.

DPF Regen Frequency / Issues / Force discussion.

Thanks

www.t6forum.com

 

[Howzat]

Yeah, that load calculated at 60 may stop the regen from taking place. So when you reset the values to 0 is that load calculated figure still at 60?

 

[xop32]

i have not got around to checking the soot levels again as the egr faults reappeared

i spoke to soon about about this all be cleared up


i drove the van yesterday for a few miles all seemed ok, drove it today to supermarket about 2 miles, came back and the engine light on

there is still a issue with the egr valve / system, the computer says they are sporadic events

2 faults have poped up relating to the egr system

image 1


image 2


i am guessing that as there is insufficient flow detected we could have some sort of build up of crap in there

if the van has been driven around with a blocked dpf , would this cause the egr system to build up with carbon / coke / soot etc


when i try to test plan its saying some special tools are need to run threw the test plan which i do not have, so i canceled the test


image 3


image 5


it seems these faults are sporadic entries, i guess if i just clear them there going to pop back up until the next issues are solved


what would be the next step

1) remove the egr valve
2) check it for carbon build up and clean up as required
3) put back together and clear codes / etc

of course if there was a massive build up of crap in the egr valve we have found the problem, but if not what next??

 

[xop32]

@Broadside
That VAG DPF app looks good, even tho my engine code is not listed i will give it a try, looks idea for plugging into the van when driving done to motorway to monitor the sensors

 

[xop32]

by the way is there any guides on here for how to remove the egr valve from a t6, as this looks like the next job to do