- 204ps Bi-Turbo CXEB T6 Engine & Turbo problems -

[Manu]

When you take it into VW , take a copy of the TPI above .

Tell them you know about the engine wear issue with the cxeb engine.

They will start with an oil test, Same as they done with me.

Have you got your own logs?. As to when and how much oil you topped up with?.... That will help.

Then if it fails the oil test they need to do a compression test.... To see if it's the block or turbo.

Low compression on block is new engine, dpf,cat, sensor.

Good compression will likely mean further investigation on the turbo.... Most likely turbo,dpf,cat,sensor.


Keep us posted with what happens.

All right, a follow-up. I post it here in case this is helpful or anyone sees any red flags in the communications with VW... It is a 204 BiTurbo 4 motion LWB T6 with a CXEB engine and about 65000 miles. I noticed an increase in oil consumption in August while driving back from France but did not make much of it. I had to top up 1 later in the middle of a long trip I do yearly. Normally I only have to top up at the end of it, and only 05l or so (it is over a 2500-mile road trip). Frustratingly, this was while the van was still under extended warranty, but I did not think much of it and I did not raise it with VW.... Over Christmas, the oil consumption spiked and I got multiple adblue errors. After roughly 200 miles of driving, the van would ask for adblue and start a count down from 600 miles, only to reset itself after a while. As I was abroad, I did not bring it to the garage. I did so once I was back in the UK (and out of warranty....). I drove the van for 623 miles for the oil consumption test. This is a copy of their email...

"The results were that it only just passed from an oil level measurement but in the time since your last visit, we have found that the regeneration of the DPF was cancelled 4 times. This means that fuel would have gone into the oil raising the level. This means that the reading we took would not be correct and this means the vehicle has failed the oil consumption tests.
We believe that the oil is passing the piston and con rods causing the excessive use of the oil. With this in mind, the repair required to resolve this would be to replace the engine, catalytic converter, diesel particulate filter and lambda probes.
I have attached an estimate for the full costs of this. As your All In warranty expired 04/12/2024 we are unable to claim against this. However we have approached VW UK regarding the repair and they are prepared to cover the cost of 80% of the parts cost but cannot cover any more than this.
This means that you would be liable for the cost of 20% of the parts and the full cost of labour. As a result, the total cost to you with this discount would be £6279.02 including VAT."

So with that, we can add my van to the list of failed CXEB engines... The total cost they gave in the email is around 17k, so 6k makes it sound like a bargain... quite shocking to see well-looked-after diesel engines fail with this mileage....

Should I query whether the turbo should also be changed?? It seems to be the only part under the bonnet that is not being changed....
The car got a new EGR under the extended warranty last year because the car was losing coolant... I suspect this is unrelated??
I will do a bit of research on this forum for advice on how to make the new engine last, whether that requires blocking EGR or tampering with the DPF... Once the new engine is no longer under warranty, I will consider all avenues....

Thanks, @Dellmassive for the accurate information in this and so many other posts!

 

[albiro]

Your situation and mine are almost identical @Manu - my van had ~63k miles when I realised I was putting in silly amounts of oil. The van was a 2016 T6 204PS (not 4motion), and had I actually had extended warranty it would have been just under a year past it's end-of-warranty. VW had the same diagnosis: New longblock engine, DPF, catalytic converter and lambda sensor needed, quote came in at £17.8k including VAT and labour.

You managed to get a better price of £6.2k, whereas in the end mine weighed in at £8.7k. I think the difference in the approach was that VW offered the parts at warranty price, then offered to cover 30% of the overall job (parts + labour). Maybe it's worth pushing for a warranty price on the parts? That would reduce the price a bit, though I suspect about £2.5k of your quote is labour already.

"makes it sound like a bargain" is much the same thought as I had - ultimately, you shouldn't, just like me, need to pay anything because there should be no need for an engine with that low mileage to need replacing, but there's simply no consumer protection at this point in the journey.

 

[Fivetones]

I’ve read this whole thread. Two questions maybe @Dellmassive is best placed to answer:

1. Has it been determined if remapping is a factor at all?
2. Is it still true, to date, that the revisions that have led to the CXEC (T6.1) have fixed the problems or is it still too early to tell?

 

[Dellmassive]

I’ve read this whole thread. Two questions maybe @Dellmassive is best placed to answer:

1. Has it been determined if remapping is a factor at all?
2. Is it still true, to date, that the revisions that have led to the CXEC (T6.1) have fixed the problems or is it still too early to tell?

1 - there are two separate possible issues with the CXEB. "A- BiTurbo failure", and "B- Engine Block/Piston wear."

so . . . .

1a - A power remap may push the turbo and engine harder, as an example higher fuelling will add to oil dilution. . . so to counter this i would say oil changes need to be more frequent.

higher turbo pressures may have some effect the system, as will higher DPF usage and possible back pressure due to DPF build-up causing higher backpressure of the turbo and engine.

but you need to specify the remap:

is it a remap for additional power? - why bother doing that to 204ps, its powerful enough already. (for a work van/daily driver)

or is it an EGR delete? - if so why?, what was the reason? - the CXEB EGR can be replaced and last about 60k miles ish

or is it an DPF delete? - if so why?, what was the reason? - a clogged DPF is just a symptom of a problem further back. ie high oil use that gets caught in the DPF, but cant be burned off and will just clog and melt the dpf.

However if you have one of the effected Engine/Block/Piston wear problems then i doubt weather the ECU is mapped or not will have any effect. . . these effected engines show excessive wear and low compression like regular clockwork at around 80K miles. (gradual high oil use is the first sign)


2 - it seems to be, the CXEC was introduced in 2019. so now 6 years old. and with these vans doing 30k a year average in a commercial setting. those arly CXEC will be up at 180K miles by now.. . . with no issues so far that I'm aware of.


++++++++++++


may take on this is:

the 2016 CXEB 204BiTDI engine was a great unit, and an improvement over the T5.1 CFCA 180BiTDI.

but it had many early high millage vans back for vw warranty replacement engines. - with worn engines at 80K

VW worked out what was going and revised the production run 2019 to fix the issue.

in the background the CXEC was being developed for the newer T6.1, which incorporated a new EGR system to stop the EGR clogging of older gen engines.
so some of the very early T6.1s have the ready to go CXEB, then later the production seemed to change to the CXEC. - and then after that around 2020 VW moved over to the Bosch fuel system and moved again to the DNA/A/B/C and the 204BiTDI DMZA

+

so if you have an early CXEB 204ps 2016-2019 and are under the 80k miles then you may be effected with the worn engine TPI ( keep a very close eye on oil usage)

if you have a 2019ish CXEB 204ps - then you may or may not have the revised version of the engine. if your around 80K miles then you need to keep a very close eye on the oil usage. . . if you are well over that and say 100K then you are most likely have the revised engine and are good to go till 300K or more.

if you have an early CXEB that's knackered - and go to VW, it will be replaced by VW with the revised version of the CXEB engine and you should be good for 300K+

if you have an early CXEB that's knackered - and go to a back street garage for a second hand or recon engine. then who knows what your getting? it could be a worn engine block with a skimmed head and set of piston rings? . . who knows what the life will be? 20k? 40k? 80k? so that's down to you and a risk you will be taking.

Basically the ONLY FIX for the worn CXEB is a NEW revised ENGINE from VW - and that's what DS will offer you, a new engine from VW and they will fit it.

if you have a 2019> CXEC, then you are sweet and nothing to worry about thus far 6 years in.

if you have a 2020> 2.0 BiTDI CR -DMZA - 150kw/204ps then we can also assume you are good. - thus far.



.
+++

see the engine range here:

VW Transporter Engine codes (T5-T6.1)

VW Transporter Engine codes (T5-T6.1) do we have a definitive list of engine codes? if not then lets get one sorted out. ill start the list, . . . and in info below and ill update the main list.

www.t6forum.com

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[Nam600]

As part of the repair, I have seen somewhere that the replacement pistons are a newer version. I think there is a good chance that the issue with undersized ring-pack oil drain bores in the piston are to blame. Exact same issue happened on the 1.8TSI engine (160ps I think) and all engines built around 2011 to 2016 where the oil drains in the pistons were gradually 'carbing-up' and causing excess oil to build. After a while, the engine would use lots of oil and eventually the piston rings would jam/stick in the ring grooves causing loss of compression. The excess carbon build-up around the pistons sped-up the problem by polishing/wearing the cylinder liner wall.

 

[Fivetones]

Thanks so much @Dellmassive for such a comprehensive reply. I’ll be in the market for a 4mo t6.1 Cali at some point so this is good to hear.

 

[Blasam]

Probably a “how long is a piece of string question” but do we know or is it documented just how common these CXEB issues are? With a glass half full outlook, I assume there’s a large quantity of CXEBs running well? As rule of thumb, most come to forums once a problem arises?

I’m trying to remain positive as my Feb 2017 CXEB is yet to s**t itself at 120k on the clock

 

[Dellmassive]

nothing official that I've seen . . . VW are never going to admit that any this is ever wrong.

so we are building up our own statistics from T6F members


Affected: 42x vans - Here - (most are for turbo, only about 15odd for whole engine)


Lucky people: 7x vans - Here -


unknown: xxx? who knows, as only some people will come across this thread after they have a problem, im assuming many thousands of vans out there with no issues at all?



.

 

[Dellmassive]

if anyone wants a CXEB turbo from a working van?,

im selling mine, that i got VW to remove when i had a new engine fitted,

For Sale - VW T6 Bitdi turbocharger CXEB 2018 - 03N145703M

VW T6 Bitdi turbocharger CXEB 2018 - 03N145703M OEM unit removed form a working van, Turbo tested fine, full working order, from a 2018 T6 Sportline with 79500miles on it. ready to go . . . removed by VW Chelmsford during a warranty engine replacement. i purchased a new Turbo @ £3.5k...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[SAJO]

Is it a CXEB engine?
Did the Flashing Coil light clear itself after switching off engine then restarting?
Does it keep coming back on?
I'm no expert compared to others on this forum but mine did this last week (CXEB 204hp) and I had the same code (Passive/Sporadic P22D300) and Passive/Sporadic P012100 Throttle/Pedal Pos. Sensor A Circ Range/Performance. Mine has not come back on, so am holding my breath. Others will be able to correct me here but it could just be an N75 valve playing up, which is not expensive to replace at all. Don't panic just yet!
Fingers crossed for you and me!

I didn't get to the local dealers but popped into my local indie, explained the situation, they explained that their vagcom wasnt going to be much more specific than the codes i had, and there was a possibility it could be an N75 fix. Fast forward to next week and my usual mechanic friend is going to take the van to his unit, strip down part of the turbo check it with an endoscope to check out the condition of the turbo, no fragments have made their way into cylinders before checking the N75's. We wait and see what happens next

 

[upacs]

@Dellmassive Thank you for the extensive info

You can count my van in the stats. I had my CXEB engine replaced late last year. Symptom was high oil usage (1L every 1500Km or so). The van was running sweet, but my garage (independent) already told me about this issue, and arranged for a replacement. Even though VW covered 80% of parts and 50% of labour, it was still a nasty bill. But I will admit, as soon as I started the engine I noticed the difference. So smooth!

Is there a way to know if my replacement CXEB engine is the revised one? just want to make sure I have a good engine now, and not another broken CXEB

For what it's worth, my garage told me he is replacing one engine on these vans per week. He posted his findings here: Büel-Garage AG (it's in German, but you can translate with Google)

 

[Dellmassive]

@Dellmassive Thank you for the extensive info

You can count my van in the stats. I had my CXEB engine replaced late last year. Symptom was high oil usage (1L every 1500Km or so). The van was running sweet, but my garage (independent) already told me about this issue, and arranged for a replacement. Even though VW covered 80% of parts and 50% of labour, it was still a nasty bill. But I will admit, as soon as I started the engine I noticed the difference. So smooth!

Is there a way to know if my replacement CXEB engine is the revised one? just want to make sure I have a good engine now, and not another broken CXEB

For what it's worth, my garage told me he is replacing one engine on these vans per week. He posted his findings here: Büel-Garage AG (it's in German, but you can translate with Google)

ill add you in. . . all engines from 2019 onwards purchased direct from VW are the revised versions - so you are good to go.

 

[Dellmassive]

@Dellmassive Thank you for the extensive info

You can count my van in the stats. I had my CXEB engine replaced late last year. Symptom was high oil usage (1L every 1500Km or so). The van was running sweet, but my garage (independent) already told me about this issue, and arranged for a replacement. Even though VW covered 80% of parts and 50% of labour, it was still a nasty bill. But I will admit, as soon as I started the engine I noticed the difference. So smooth!

Is there a way to know if my replacement CXEB engine is the revised one? just want to make sure I have a good engine now, and not another broken CXEB

For what it's worth, my garage told me he is replacing one engine on these vans per week. He posted his findings here: Büel-Garage AG (it's in German, but you can translate with Google)

awesome. . . . The Link is to a Facebook page.

so ill show below:

++++++++++

Oil consumption VW T6 CXEB. (A lot to read, but it's voluntary)
Unfortunately, it is so that the 204PS T6 is now also inclined to burn oil in increased quantities. There is much speculation about the cause. We have now disassembled such an engine to look at this from our side. Also, we ordered a piston from the CXEC engine (successor) for comparison. The piston from CXEB now transfers to the new piston from CxEC, the piston from the CXEB engine is no longer available.
The only difference we could find is the two small drills (red arrow) this drill has four drills on both sides.
The problem is that the oil stripe ring is completely rusted and so the function is no longer available (the oil stripe ring would be in the bottom nut in which the drilling are also).
So these drilling could already show their effect.
Currently it is not known whether the small drilling will help anything. At least we are not familiar with a CXEC engine with oil consumption. Which doesn't have to mean anything. But the hope is that the problems will be solved. Model 2019 199PS variant is no longer available.
The generally strong friction from engine oil is noticeable. A real disaster, although all the maintenance was done correctly on this bus. The oil is just too much demand and too little changed. Generally, the very high combustion pressure is also to blame.
Many short distances increase this deterioration of the oil additionally because the sealing of the piston/cylinder in the warm-up phase is simply not optimal and therefore significantly more Russ passes the piston.
We don't necessarily believe that it's because of the very high oil temperatures, which can occur under heavy stress. Also the conversion to other oil coolers does not help at all with heavy stress, for example, passports with trailers. The only thing that could help would be an extra oil cooler and not swapping from one system to another or best would be a generally improved cooling system. This one we working on
just now.
On several extreme trips, we checked all the temperatures which occur. If you knew how hot your cool water is effective
Probably, sooner or later this will affect everyone... As a precaution, we recommend simply changing the engine oil once a year regardless of the number of km driven. And to do a smart engine flush every 50000km.
To the engine builders or other specialists.
How exactly does oil recovery work on this piston? There are no gaps or holes through the piston. We've never seen anything like this. Seems to work too

+++++++
attached pics:






+++++++

 

[upacs]

ill add you in. . . all engines from 2019 onwards purchased direct from VW are the revised versions - so you are good to go.

I wish there was a way to confirm... well, there must be, we just don't know about it. But the mechanic at Büel Garage knows his sh!t, and he specializes on the VW California / Transporters. He runs a VW California rental business as well, so he should know. Funny thing, he started as a Toyota mechanic (he still works on them), but that was not paying the bills

Even though my van was running fine, and I'm sure it could have gone longer before replacing the engine, the mechanic told me that as it's a 2018 and already six years old, it was going to be borderline to get anything from VW. Luckily they did accept the claim. But I feel for anyone that doesn't do high mileage, and a couple of years from now find themselves with a bust engine and VW tells them to take a hike.

Now I need to figure out what to do with all that spare oil I have sitting in the garage. 2,500Km in and the new engine has not even taken a sip of oil

 

[Dellmassive]

I asked my Volkswagen garage for information on the changeover date or a serial number range of the engine etc...... as to when it changed but they couldn't give me any more information. They said that was factory information but as we know the engine block pistons etc revised in 2019. So I think we can safely say that any anything 2020 onwards is good.

I also ask for paperwork detailing the new engine number for me to change it over on the paperwork but he said that they don't give out engine change numbers anymore which at the time I didn't believe,.... surely each engine has to have a unique serial number?

I'm yet to get to the engine to say the serial number at stamped on the block as its hidden now the engine's been rebuilt.

So far I'm still waiting for the engine swap paperwork to come through from the dealer.

Because it's all warranty work they said they needed to all go through the warranty system and get final paperwork before enabling them to give me paperwork to prove what parts have been replaced.

 

[Sackmycook]

It may be that VW will notify dvla direct of the engine number change...

 

[Sackmycook]

This

 

[albiro]

I wasn't aware that you needed to contact DVLA if the engine was replaced, has everyone that has had their engine swapped out done this?

Edit: I've spoken to the VW Dealership that replaced the engine in mine, and they don't reckon this needs doing - they've never had to do it on any of their vans previously, and the engine number remains the same (?) - I rang them because their documentation doesn't include a different engine number in it.

 

[Dellmassive]

Impression I got from the manager of the workshop was that he wasn't bothered

I specifically asked him if the no engine would be stamped with the old engine number or if the new engine would have a new engine number?

To which he replied no they don't do engine numbers anymore?

And the paperwork that I've got for the new turbo that I personally paid for details the original engine make model number serial number..... So who knows.

But I will be getting paperwork that covers all of the parts that have been fitted including the new long engine even if I have the phone up Volkswagen customer services and get them to put pressure on the garage.

 

[Sackmycook]

Change of engine is a modification.....