That's very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
I just looked up my t5.1 and I have found (I think) its a Gen4, and what I found it works like this
The Generation 4 Haldex system is a proactive all-wheel drive (AWD) systemfound in some Volkswagen vehicles, including the VW T5.1 4Motion:
The Generation 4 Haldex system is a proactive all-wheel drive (AWD) systemfound in some Volkswagen vehicles, including the VW T5.1 4Motion:
- How it works
The Haldex system is proactive, meaning it uses data from the ABS control unit and engine ECU to prime the clutch for faster activation. When not activated, the system splits torque 100% front to 0% rear, but can distribute up to 50/50 torque.
A lot is down to how you use the vehicle. Having come from Range Rovers towing 3500kg the 4m Transporter can’t compete. However I find he the 4m system on the T6.1extremely good at every day motoring especially when towing in wet / slippery conditions. The cost is more in every direction so that has to be thought through before purchasing.
@Salty Spuds, I am planning on doing something similar to this in future (nowhere near ready yet). How did you find it with the poptop up, and what is that cover, look like it goes over the roof rather than round it?
Poptop up isn't a problem & is our normal configuration when skiing. We do 4-5 weeks/year, immediately after new year & before half term, so basically 1st week in jan-1st week in feb. We made an insulated liner that goes inside the poptop from a roll of bubble insulation, about £20 from screwfix. The outer snow cover is a specific cover made by Reimo for our LWB easyfit roof. I believe that similar covers are available to suit other roofs. We have a Webasto/2kW fan heater/700W oilfilled radiator(again from screwfix) and an Aldi electric blanket. If we're on EHU, the 2kW fan heater is more than enough to keep the van warm, even at -20C, we usually have to turn it down to 1kW as it gets overpowering. We have the oilfilled radiator on at night to keep the chill off & we have the leccy blanket on minimum, it's too warm on anything above gas mark 1. If the EHU is unlimited, we leave the fan heater running on low during the day whilst we're out skiing to keep the chill off. If we're off grid or on metered EHU (some are in the Alps, especially in Austria) we use the Webasto & on the last run down, send a text to the Webasto to come on to warm the van before we get back. All in all it works very well, you just need to be organised.,
Ahh i see, is the outer just a cover, like this?
I have been out in the uk winter with the webasto on and it was waaaaaaaaaaaaay to warm (but had the roof down and the van is insulated within an inch of its life). Woke up sweating in the morning, heater on minimum, window open and ice hanging of the van. Would like to use the pop top though, if anything for the extra headroom!
Similar, ours is this one
VW T6, VW T5 weather protection cover pop top roof Easy-Fit, LWB, front pop up
Weather protection cover for VW T6, VW T5 pop top roof Easy-Fit, LWB, front pop up. The climacover is the perfect protection against rain, snow, ice…
www.reimo.com
That's as I understand it too. Normal operation is front wheel drive. If the system detects slippage, it splits the drive between front & rear. So it's either front wheel drive or 4 WD, never solely rear WD.
KEEPitSTUPID
Member
hi all, new T6.1 4mo, manual owner. Hunted high and low to avoid the BiTDI but got there in the end. New role at work forced the purchase. (4WD necessity) and took opportunity to renew my van instead of buying a truck or something stupid.
quick one to the TDI150 lot. what are you getting for MPG? struggling to get 27 urban and 31 is a tease on a longer run. fuel to fuel ends up around 28. with European travel being our expectation this is a whole new bill. I might be just seeing how much this country is falling apart in terms of cost of living here too but need to clarify.
quick one to the TDI150 lot. what are you getting for MPG? struggling to get 27 urban and 31 is a tease on a longer run. fuel to fuel ends up around 28. with European travel being our expectation this is a whole new bill. I might be just seeing how much this country is falling apart in terms of cost of living here too but need to clarify.
Just looking back at my VW app - motorway trip up to Ambleside, 34mpg. Today round the steep hilly lanes, 24mpg. LWB 4mo camper, with roof bars on.
6.1 SWB 4M camper, Manual gearbox, lots of kit inside van, a pop top, bike rack, towbar, big wheels/AT tyres, etc, get 32 mpg average, it’s hilly around where I live too, yours seems a little low if it’s if it’s not converted
If the T6 had not been available with 4Motion then we would never have bought one, as simple as that. AWD or 4 Wheel Drive is absolutely essential living here. I would have preferred the drive to have been a Ferguson/Torsen unit not a Haldex and the axle differentials were also a Ferguson/Torsen Limited slip Differential not an open Differential in front and in rear and not a rear Differential differential lock but the Haldex is OK. Ours also has Rear Differential Lock which makes a big difference to Off-Road performance and capability for various reasons. I have also added, BFG 255/55R18 KO2 AT Tyres on an other set of steel rims.
Contrary to what has been said about not feeling slippage in a 4Motion while on road at speed that may be the case but off road at very much slower snail pace speed one can detect the system working. Climb over a slippery rock and a slight slippage may be felt with a particular wheel before tightening up with then smoother progression onwads. When the rear axle differential lock has been engauged progress over the same slippery topography feels very different. One might expect greater push and less slippage but hold on, supposedly if the rear is not engauged as we have been led to expect then having a trailing dead but locked up rear differentian might be more of a drag and hinderance untill the rear axle is engauaged? On the contary locking the rear differential tightens up the whole vehicle and prgress far tighter with less slipae than might be expected. I used to ponder this but other things pulled ones mind away. It was not untill recently infact that I learnt on here I beleive it was "mimi" and others, that engaging the rear differential lock also connectss in the rear axle so apropiating true 4wheel drive so being proactive and not just reactive! That is aslo how it feels. My daughter 2021 dacia Duster AWD has several selections for drive. 2 Wheel drive only, 2 Wheel drive with 4 wheel drive on demand a Haldex in other words and 4wheel drive with haldex locked for difficult off road use. Her vehicle feels very similar to the Caravelle with rear diff lock as the Duster feels over the same tipography. I do not think that the Duster has a rear axle diff lock by the way.
I only new how the T6 4Motion works from Motoring Magazines and VW literature and so had preconceved convictons on how it all work. When operating the rear differential lock I just accepted at firtst what I had read and moved on, though I did recognise that it felt better than that explanaton might lead one to have expected. So The explanation from on here does explain my experiences. Of course our on line experts and super experts might digress and say I miss understood and because I respect them with great reverance I would accept practically any explanation given by them. Also I beleive that "mimi" also suggests that analysis has shown varied amount of engagement to the rear axle at different speeds. Would that also include real life experementation under real life situatons? That may suggest that insted of accepting that the T6 4Motion is only a 2wheel drive vehicle but on demand and experience slippage only then does it becom 4 wheel or all wheel drive. Is it then the the 4Motion experience is more nuanced than most of us a led to accept from Magazine literature? Please can or resident experts give some every day explanation of what really happens because I can see a few different ideas going about each having some plausability and of course ones own real time experience every day!
Any way if someone is thinking about a 4Motion then they are allready on the way to owning one, I suggest. That they may have reasons for ownership. Having the mot suitable tyres is very important to any vehicle and owner. I have driven 2 wheel drive vehicles in mud and greesy grass with Colway Rally tyres mid compound and that was an experience can not say it would be equal or better than an AWD of the same make that a tall claim without true comparison. What I can say is that no 2 wheel drive car coud drive better or equal to an AWD or 4 wheel drive car with the same tyres. A 4Motion T6 with Winter or the best AS tyres or even AT 3peaks Mand Snow All Aeason tyres will go far further and better than a simarly shod standard 2 wheel drive T6.
However the vast majority of dietractors of specialsit tyres such as Winter, All Season or All terain All Season 3 peaks Mud and Snow and also those who feel that AWD 4Motion is the be and end all forget that forward raction is the game aften fail to see that stopping and staying on the road is far far mor importsnat than moving generally speaking. So please every one fit at least AS tyres or have more sets of specialist tyres Winter and summer and so on.
I would suggest to the origonal poster go ahead and buy a 4Motion T6 but please put the best tres on and for most people that would be All Season Tyres.
Contrary to what has been said about not feeling slippage in a 4Motion while on road at speed that may be the case but off road at very much slower snail pace speed one can detect the system working. Climb over a slippery rock and a slight slippage may be felt with a particular wheel before tightening up with then smoother progression onwads. When the rear axle differential lock has been engauged progress over the same slippery topography feels very different. One might expect greater push and less slippage but hold on, supposedly if the rear is not engauged as we have been led to expect then having a trailing dead but locked up rear differentian might be more of a drag and hinderance untill the rear axle is engauaged? On the contary locking the rear differential tightens up the whole vehicle and prgress far tighter with less slipae than might be expected. I used to ponder this but other things pulled ones mind away. It was not untill recently infact that I learnt on here I beleive it was "mimi" and others, that engaging the rear differential lock also connectss in the rear axle so apropiating true 4wheel drive so being proactive and not just reactive! That is aslo how it feels. My daughter 2021 dacia Duster AWD has several selections for drive. 2 Wheel drive only, 2 Wheel drive with 4 wheel drive on demand a Haldex in other words and 4wheel drive with haldex locked for difficult off road use. Her vehicle feels very similar to the Caravelle with rear diff lock as the Duster feels over the same tipography. I do not think that the Duster has a rear axle diff lock by the way.
I only new how the T6 4Motion works from Motoring Magazines and VW literature and so had preconceved convictons on how it all work. When operating the rear differential lock I just accepted at firtst what I had read and moved on, though I did recognise that it felt better than that explanaton might lead one to have expected. So The explanation from on here does explain my experiences. Of course our on line experts and super experts might digress and say I miss understood and because I respect them with great reverance I would accept practically any explanation given by them. Also I beleive that "mimi" also suggests that analysis has shown varied amount of engagement to the rear axle at different speeds. Would that also include real life experementation under real life situatons? That may suggest that insted of accepting that the T6 4Motion is only a 2wheel drive vehicle but on demand and experience slippage only then does it becom 4 wheel or all wheel drive. Is it then the the 4Motion experience is more nuanced than most of us a led to accept from Magazine literature? Please can or resident experts give some every day explanation of what really happens because I can see a few different ideas going about each having some plausability and of course ones own real time experience every day!
Any way if someone is thinking about a 4Motion then they are allready on the way to owning one, I suggest. That they may have reasons for ownership. Having the mot suitable tyres is very important to any vehicle and owner. I have driven 2 wheel drive vehicles in mud and greesy grass with Colway Rally tyres mid compound and that was an experience can not say it would be equal or better than an AWD of the same make that a tall claim without true comparison. What I can say is that no 2 wheel drive car coud drive better or equal to an AWD or 4 wheel drive car with the same tyres. A 4Motion T6 with Winter or the best AS tyres or even AT 3peaks Mand Snow All Aeason tyres will go far further and better than a simarly shod standard 2 wheel drive T6.
However the vast majority of dietractors of specialsit tyres such as Winter, All Season or All terain All Season 3 peaks Mud and Snow and also those who feel that AWD 4Motion is the be and end all forget that forward raction is the game aften fail to see that stopping and staying on the road is far far mor importsnat than moving generally speaking. So please every one fit at least AS tyres or have more sets of specialist tyres Winter and summer and so on.
I would suggest to the origonal poster go ahead and buy a 4Motion T6 but please put the best tres on and for most people that would be All Season Tyres.
So agree with @Kind of Blue ... when the going has got tough, pressing the magic diff lock button definately feels like it locks in 4wd and really does drag you up or through pretty much anything.
Anyway, if you want to drag your T6 up a mountain...
or across Salisbury Plain gloop...
...then 4mo with diff lock very desirable and occaisionally essential. But otherwise, good tyres and some common sense is probably all you'll need!
Anyway, if you want to drag your T6 up a mountain...
or across Salisbury Plain gloop...
...then 4mo with diff lock very desirable and occaisionally essential. But otherwise, good tyres and some common sense is probably all you'll need!
Based on my observations T6 4Motion is proactively engaged - thus based on driver's "demand" by pressing accelerator pedal. Thus there won't be any slippage to detect (empty vehicle used to experiment).
The effect can be seen in thread
[T6_measured] 4motion Abnormality And Subsequent Failure
Reference documents: VW Self Study Programme SSP 561 –The T6 2016, which in chapter Power transmission (p.26) for details on 4Motion control logic refers to: VW Self Study Programme 414 – 4MOTION with 4WD coupling generation IV. The document can be read and downloaded at SSP 414 Spesifics...
On higher speed the engagement is less - as the torque from engine at propshaft is less - so no need to keep the engagement as tight as at lower speed - to prevent slipping. Keeping the engagement too tight would cause wear and strain on the clutch (and drivetrain) because of torque from the wheels when curving. Also driveability would be sacrified on curvess because of "locked" front and rear axles.
Actually, I'm inclined to believe Haldex clutch failures might be because of errorneous (too tight) engagement on higher speeds - on certain T6 engines.
And, yes, pretty much all based on real life situations recorded and analysed
I'm not sure if the magazines have actually experimented T6 as not the all Haldex are the same.
I have done the same on Skoda Octavia Scout and Golf Alltrack - and their Haldex engagement logic is different - they let the front wheels spin (thus allow speed difference between front axles, typically delta > 3km/h) before Haldex clutch engages.. A consequence of that "late" engagement is you'll always get traction control light warning when trying to accelerate on slippery - perhaps a designed safety feature? As T6 engages proactively it's easy to get 4-wheel spinning when accelerating without traction control warning light - and thus no engine power reduction - because Haldex/ECU do not see any significant difference in wheel speeds.
Well, the Octavia Scout and Golf Alltrack have several modes for driver to choose. Because of only limited access on the cars at the time only only the default mode was experimented.
We have run a Skoda (2015) scout for many years, it’s a beast when it’s got winter tyres on.
You can electronically lock the front and rear axles with a press of a button and drive up to 30 kph before it automatically turns off this ‘lock function
I drive over Kirkstone pass regularly for work, I fitted full winter tyres to my FWD Transit work van and have made it over a few times in full on winter conditions, but I would probably have of got stuck if I had to come to a stop on the steep bends near the top, you can’t use speed because of the sharp bends and stone walls, I passed a few stuck AWD vehicles Halfway up the pass, obviously on road biased tyres, didn’t want to stop to help as I’d probably get stuck too.
Iv used the skoda on its winter tyres, to tow a stuck heavy AWD Volvo up kirkstone pass in full on winter conditions, the Haldex system is really good, but it’s definitely the right rubber on the vehicle that will keep you moving though.
So having the experience of a heavy FWD van on full winter tyres and experiencing their limit, we saved and brought a 4M van for our camper, as it’s used daily and we live in a hilly part of the uk
This is the bottom of the pass a few weeks ago
I love our Skoda Octavia estate
You can electronically lock the front and rear axles with a press of a button and drive up to 30 kph before it automatically turns off this ‘lock function
I drive over Kirkstone pass regularly for work, I fitted full winter tyres to my FWD Transit work van and have made it over a few times in full on winter conditions, but I would probably have of got stuck if I had to come to a stop on the steep bends near the top, you can’t use speed because of the sharp bends and stone walls, I passed a few stuck AWD vehicles Halfway up the pass, obviously on road biased tyres, didn’t want to stop to help as I’d probably get stuck too.
Iv used the skoda on its winter tyres, to tow a stuck heavy AWD Volvo up kirkstone pass in full on winter conditions, the Haldex system is really good, but it’s definitely the right rubber on the vehicle that will keep you moving though.
So having the experience of a heavy FWD van on full winter tyres and experiencing their limit, we saved and brought a 4M van for our camper, as it’s used daily and we live in a hilly part of the uk
This is the bottom of the pass a few weeks ago
I love our Skoda Octavia estate
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Skoda 4Motion AWD cars are very good in the snow particularly on All Season or Winter Tyres We also have a YETI 170 Elegance on Michelin Cross Climate 2 and it is really good not a huge amount of ground clearance though.
My wife was driving one winter years ago in a BMW 1 Series shod with Winters on the A485 at Alltwalis hill heading North. This is north of Carmarthen. Most winters if it snows their is a traffic queue just before the rise and a small fleet of tractors touting £ for a tow. Evidently she came up behind the queue got out talked to tractor drivers told them she was on winter tyres and they agreed for her to just follow them though, they had just chained up another tow and to just follow them up. As she drove past the stationary cars several waiting drivers showed there disapproval and one actually jumped in front of her moving car. Fortunately she could stop as she had traction due to winter tyres. The jumping protester refused to get out of the way and shouted aggressive insults at her. Tractor driver, as he was rescuing a car ahead while looking rear wards as he towed, saw what was going on, stopped and pushed Jumping Jack away. My wife herd tractor man threatening not tow the guy up the hill at all and he could just stay their and freze if he persisted and it was his stupid fault that he did not have winter tyres like this lady. Tractor man drove off looking backwards occasionally for surety and my wife just took off as if it were a dry road! Not a slip and out of sight!
My wife was driving one winter years ago in a BMW 1 Series shod with Winters on the A485 at Alltwalis hill heading North. This is north of Carmarthen. Most winters if it snows their is a traffic queue just before the rise and a small fleet of tractors touting £ for a tow. Evidently she came up behind the queue got out talked to tractor drivers told them she was on winter tyres and they agreed for her to just follow them though, they had just chained up another tow and to just follow them up. As she drove past the stationary cars several waiting drivers showed there disapproval and one actually jumped in front of her moving car. Fortunately she could stop as she had traction due to winter tyres. The jumping protester refused to get out of the way and shouted aggressive insults at her. Tractor driver, as he was rescuing a car ahead while looking rear wards as he towed, saw what was going on, stopped and pushed Jumping Jack away. My wife herd tractor man threatening not tow the guy up the hill at all and he could just stay their and freze if he persisted and it was his stupid fault that he did not have winter tyres like this lady. Tractor man drove off looking backwards occasionally for surety and my wife just took off as if it were a dry road! Not a slip and out of sight!
I believe that appropriate season tyres ought to be mandatory. All new cars sold with AS 3PMS tyres. One either has two sets or All Season 3 PMS it not just about forward traction. What about lateral grip, stopping in a reasonable space, staying in lane, not driving into someone or there car ending up in a ditch or mortuary. How about people not needing to abandon cars in the most dangerous and inappropriate places? I see that most years. Just because they do not have the most appropriate rubber on there car. Who knows one year to the next one day to the next over winter months when people wont find them self’s in difficulty due to winter weather on the road. As I am sure you know, Winter or All Season tyres are offering driving benefits from about 7 Deg C and below. They do it in other countries, they could offer Tax reductions and penalties as carrot and stick to achieve compliance. Boost the economy, reduce emergency hospital attendances, ambulances and police time and trouble.
doncarlyon
New Member
Quick question, is it possible to switch off the traction control in a T6.1 4M?
There aren't enough uniformed Police to enforce existing laws, never mind new ones.
Probably correct but it would be a start should affect accident insurance claims also.
