Similar mileage on our Kia and the battery and range on that is indistinguishable from new. This was a concern when EVs were very new and the longer term usage data wasn't there, the data is in now and it's overwhelming - battery degradation is just a non-issue. It's the same with fires thing, that was similarly trotted out as some huge issue by the mail and other outlets whose business model is selling fear to people.
Are EVs the way forward?
- Thread starter The Flying Scotsman
- Start date
Similar mileage on our Kia and the battery and range on that is indistinguishable from new. This was a concern when EVs were very new and the longer term usage data wasn't there, the data is in now and it's overwhelming - battery degradation is just a non-issue. It's the same with fires thing, that was similarly trotted out as some huge issue by the mail and other outlets whose business model is selling fear to people.
Yes, much like your statement about not many pre-2014 ICE cars on the roads and your tacit (but incorrect) assumption that all ICE cars die due to engine failure and that that same fate won't befall EVs.
Aye, but I don't see governments proposing to ban Coronation Street and forcing you to watch Emmerdale, whilst simultaneously having Emmerdale evangelists tell you to shut up and just accept it.
Grumble or just some alpha male desire to be the last man standing?
All the time their combustion engines are running these vehicles will be kicking out exhaust gas that if it's all we could breathe from the atmosphere would kill us.
All the time their combustion engines are running these vehicles will be kicking out exhaust gas that if it's all we could breathe from the atmosphere would kill us.
Inthe meantime the emissions and environmental damage resulting from mining neodymium and other required materials, lithium, cobalt, nickel etc are killing the local populations. EVs are a great way of off-shoring the UK responsibilities. Great technology, great to drive but the "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing".
Have you any idea how they extract the rare materials required to build your exhaust free car ?
The carbon footprint of an EV before it reaches the road is the equivalent to a diesel engine running 140k miles. Because of the mining by huge caterpillars running on huge amounts of diesel. Not to mention the devastation caused.
How many vehicles in your lifetime have you put 140k miles on?
I'm afraid even the most cursory search reveals that that 140k miles stat is absolute fantasy, there are endless studies debunking this kind of stuff showing that the carbon footprint of EV manufacture is nowhere near that and the fun lifecycle footprint is way lower than ICE even with a less-than-ideal proportion of renewables in the primary generation.
This is the real issue with attempting to argue with the endless stream of this kind of stuff propagated by dishonest outlets and then sadly parroted on forums and social media etc, and comes down to the old adage "A lie can travel halfway around the world whilst the truth is still getting its boots on".
That's right, coz the misinformation is, magically, all on the other side of the argument from your position... said no-one, ever, that wasn't naive.
Given most UK public institutions have been captured and bet their house (and our economy) on the green agenda, who do you think could possibly be funding these endless studies (and why have endless studies if it's an open & shut case)?
Virtually all economic activity has some negative effect on the environment. Any kind of heavy industry, electronics, IT, fashion, travel etc can all have significant impacts. I find it really quite odd that people (and I don't necessarily mean you specifically here @Wildcamper - for all I know you're the epitome of an ethical consumer), who in general spare no thought as to what impact their clothing etc choices make when it comes to EVs suddenly exclaim "Oh but won't someone think of the neodymium!" or equivalent...
But they are actual studies though aren't they @Bav? They do at least attempt some form of data collection and analysis? They do at least apply some academic rigour? And on the other side, we have what, a bunch of tweets and mail stories faithfully regurgitated by self-professed "free thinkers" untroubled by the faintest hint of critical thought?
I find it hilarious you think the bulk of the funding is in the "green agenda" rather than the vast entrenched industrial complex. The reality is precisely the opposite, there is a tsunami of cash trying to protect the entrenched interests of carbon-intensive industry, and on the other side an increasingly overwhelming body of evidence, driven by hard data driving progress.
You are 100% correct in that all economic activity has some negative effect. The problem is that of unintended consequences where the new proposal has not, that I have seen, been well though through. There are hundreds of instances where, on the surface, good ideas have been implemented only for something to go horribly wrong. Was it Donald Rumsfelt who said that in planning anything there are 3 aspects to consider. There are things "we know that we know" there things "we know we do not know" and there are things "we don't know that we don't know". It is this last category that concerns me. An example: in the 1960s the Australian state of Queensland was plagued by locusts. They found a species of toad that liked to eat locusts so these were introduced to eat them. However the toads liked to eat the local wildlife more than the locusts. Situation now is that much of the wildlife in Queensland is under threat as the toad population is exploding. So what the aspects re "we don't know what we don't know" as applied to EVs? When to the ICE was introduced we did not know about their impact on climate or air quality. The danger, as I see it, of the rapid introduction of EVs is "what is hiding in the woodwork! Also how deep have the supporters berried their heads in the sand.
Says the man who drives a VW van. Have you ever actually looked at it properly? IMHO, it ain’t winning beauty contests anytime soon.
The mining of Cobalt is a pretty good example of how the oil industry divert attention away from the fact that they use vast amounts of the stuff as a single use product to act as a catalyst in the process of refining crude oil.
Unlike the Cobalt used in EV battery production where the Cobalt can be recovered mechanically and reused the Cobalt used at the refinery is spent, just like the diesel and petrol it's been transformed through a single use into a toxic waste product to be conveniently forgotten about by people who conveniently don't see the mess from their ivory tower.
Unlike the Cobalt used in EV battery production where the Cobalt can be recovered mechanically and reused the Cobalt used at the refinery is spent, just like the diesel and petrol it's been transformed through a single use into a toxic waste product to be conveniently forgotten about by people who conveniently don't see the mess from their ivory tower.
EV's are perfect for a lot of people.
They are the fortunate ones, although they sometimes overlook the fact that in 2022 (the last year that full data is available according to the BBC) 40% of our electricity came from fossil fuels.
Some of our electricity comes from "renewables", which includes wood pellets transported here from the USA by oil burning ships, then burned here. Charging a car overnight means that solar power won't be contributing and the wind usually drops at night too.
EV's will not be perfect for people with lower incomes who normally drive around in a sub £2,000 car which they scrap when it won't pass the next MOT.
This is a forum for owners of vans at the premium end of the market so it's no surprise that I've not seen any comments on here that acknowledge this problem, but many of these people are employed in roles such as the care sector and they rely on that cheap older car to do their job. It is unlikely that those people can move over to EV use without incurring significant extra costs which will not be viable.
EV's will not be perfect for those who, for a variety of reasons, can't charge it at home, again nobody seems interested in these people, perhaps they won't be able to own a car?
EV's will be a challenge for some users, such as emergency services, who will almost certainly need to buy and fit out far more cars than they currently have to allow for their 24 hours a day use requirement. (A Police Officer who handed his petrol patrol car over to the next shift with half a tank of petrol had better have a good reason for that.) The costs involved in that vehicle duplication are huge.
When I'm out and about I notice a significant proportion of traffic is commercial. I'm not aware of any EV that can realistically transport goods around the UK as commercial vehicles currently do, so even if all of our cars were replaced with EV's the transport sector as a whole will still be partially reliant on diesel.
A novel idea would be to celebrate the fact that so many are happy with their EV's while recognising that it doesn't mean that they would work for everybody else!
They are the fortunate ones, although they sometimes overlook the fact that in 2022 (the last year that full data is available according to the BBC) 40% of our electricity came from fossil fuels.
What are fossil fuels? Where does the UK get its energy from?
To meet climate change targets, more of the UK's energy needs to come from low-carbon sources.
www.bbc.co.uk
EV's will not be perfect for people with lower incomes who normally drive around in a sub £2,000 car which they scrap when it won't pass the next MOT.
This is a forum for owners of vans at the premium end of the market so it's no surprise that I've not seen any comments on here that acknowledge this problem, but many of these people are employed in roles such as the care sector and they rely on that cheap older car to do their job. It is unlikely that those people can move over to EV use without incurring significant extra costs which will not be viable.
EV's will not be perfect for those who, for a variety of reasons, can't charge it at home, again nobody seems interested in these people, perhaps they won't be able to own a car?
EV's will be a challenge for some users, such as emergency services, who will almost certainly need to buy and fit out far more cars than they currently have to allow for their 24 hours a day use requirement. (A Police Officer who handed his petrol patrol car over to the next shift with half a tank of petrol had better have a good reason for that.) The costs involved in that vehicle duplication are huge.
When I'm out and about I notice a significant proportion of traffic is commercial. I'm not aware of any EV that can realistically transport goods around the UK as commercial vehicles currently do, so even if all of our cars were replaced with EV's the transport sector as a whole will still be partially reliant on diesel.
A novel idea would be to celebrate the fact that so many are happy with their EV's while recognising that it doesn't mean that they would work for everybody else!
I was speaking to my 25yr old son last night about this thread because it's good to see different insights of people of different backgrounds in different areas of the country. He's looking to buy a house but also been looking at elec cars pointing out Hyundai. Great, 10k low miles but no where to charge except public chargers as his house is a terraced property in a one way street with a tree right outside. The catch, he brings it over to our house and I have to install a EV charger for a car i dont own!! Kids eh!!!! It shows the demand and will is out there for people to get them but the charging capability is hampered by where people live. Oh and dad's telling the kids to sod off over fitting a charger. Hahaha.
The amount of electricity generated by burning fossil fuels is at least a variable unlike the situation with burning gas, just the once, to produce warmth in our home from the gas central heating.
EVs are a part of a logical move away from this single use of a valuable resource simply because it's cheap and we've always done it.
Generating electricity and distributing it at a rate that matches the existing price per kWh of gas to the end user has to be the target.
It seems mad that those of us on here already independent of hook ups for electric in our vans by using solar and lithium batteries don't automatically see the scalability of the situation?
EVs are a part of a logical move away from this single use of a valuable resource simply because it's cheap and we've always done it.
Generating electricity and distributing it at a rate that matches the existing price per kWh of gas to the end user has to be the target.
It seems mad that those of us on here already independent of hook ups for electric in our vans by using solar and lithium batteries don't automatically see the scalability of the situation?
...or indeed, took the keys home with him/her
Slightly off topic but apparently certain Tesla models sold before a certain date, say model S pre 2017, are still eligible for unlimited free charges from Tesla Superchargers, that's a good way of getting an EV and maybe using it as a taxi... but then according to the Autotrader video on YT about the 460,000 mile 2016 Model S taxi that's already been done.
Plenty of companies sticking extra plastic on each end and slamming the vans, charging crazy prices… all desperate to prove you can polish a turd.
It doesn't seem that long ago that all the experts and Governments, were telling us how we had to all go diesel, because it would save the planet.
Surely they wouldn't be wrong again would they? Give it a few more years and we'll see.
Surely they wouldn't be wrong again would they? Give it a few more years and we'll see.
