Battery Ah size recommendations

[roadtripper]

The risk is not knowing if it's a very low current signal to the electronics or something with more current just lighting an LED directly you may damage the control panel. That might not be worth risking for the benefit?

A small 12v power supply could be used to supply the signal, if you're handy one of these PCB ones might work and be compact

https://cpc.farnell.com/mean-well/irm-01-12/12v-83ma-1w-pcb-mount-ac-to-dc-power-supply/dp/pw04723

 

[pdid]

Yeah I'm guessing probably not worth it.... Although the car battery light is now flashing on the panel.... Annoying.

 

[roadtripper]

What panel do you have, got a few pictures of your setup?

 

[pdid]

What panel do you have, got a few pictures of your setup?

It's a CBE PC210

I believe the CBE stuff is sold as a set with the panel, 240v consumer unit, 12v distribution board and the battery charger.

The board basically switches on the lighting and water pump, most of the other features aren't used. I've left the white wire disconnected for now and will possibly look at a workaround in the near future.

Thanks

 

[roadtripper]

I'm not sure why leaving that disconnected would make the car battery light flash though?

That's a voltage warning and the only thing that is connected to the starter battery that I can see is the terminal marked +B1 - has that got disturbed during the work or a fuse popped?




I also note this bit from the manual which caught my eye from your earlier comment that the charger may also charge the starter and that might be what the third wire was for:



That sounds more like they have a pulse trickle charger in the PDU (not the CBE charger itself) similar to the AMT12 units that kicks in when the leisure battery is closed to charged. If so that should still work.

 

[pdid]

I'm not sure why leaving that disconnected would make the car battery light flash though?

That's a voltage warning and the only thing that is connected to the starter battery that I can see is the terminal marked +B1 - has that got disturbed during the work or a fuse popped?

View attachment 249404


I also note this bit from the manual which caught my eye from your earlier comment that the charger may also charge the starter and that might be what the third wire was for:

View attachment 249405

That sounds more like they have a pulse trickle charger in the PDU (not the CBE charger itself) similar to the AMT12 units that kicks in when the leisure battery is closed to charged. If so that should still work.

Sorry for the late reply, had loads on today. Anyways I've quickly checked the fuses and all seem to be intact. If I get chance tomorrow I'll check the connection at B1, I'm fairly sure I haven't disturbed it but you never know.
At least that should tell me if that feature is in use.
Otherwise back to the white wire.....

 

[pdid]

So it would appear that the +B1 terminal is connected.

Back to the white wire.... I've read on another forum that a vsr would solve this problem but I'm not sure how I'd go about wiring this up?

"There are a few ways to achieve this, so this is not the only way, but it’s one of the easiest and most cost effective ways to achieve it. In the past when we’ve needed to simulate a 12v input into the system (e.g. the white wire on your charger) we’ve used a Voltage Sensitive Relay like this: https://geni.us/wGAdi
The fact that it’s capable of 140A is overkill, but when we first looked at it, this was the easiest and cheapest way of achieving what we need to do.

These VSRs usually have a black wire coming out of them for the common earth (negative) and then two positive terminals (input & output). We would put the VSR negative & positive input into the new Victron mains charger terminals with the wires that go out of the charger to the system. We then have the VSR positive output connected to the white wire from your old charger. What this does is that when you are on EHU, the Victron mains charger is outputting a high enough voltage to trigger the VSR, which then sends a 12v signal to the system to turn the EHU icon on on your control panel. "

 

[roadtripper]

Are you still getting a flashing starter battery alarm? If so what's the voltage of your starter battery - ideally measured at the battery AND the B1 terminal?


Sure a VSR would work, just be aware it would also trigger when the DC-DC charger was running, it's just sees a charge voltage level and engages. So your EHU light would be more of a "leisure battery charging" light. They're quite bulky though.

I'm trying to think of an arrangement of diodes that would give a true 240v charger only signal but can't see a way of doing it without also messing up the charger (diodes cause around 0.6v voltage drop) and a VSR is off the shelf.

 

[pdid]

Are you still getting a flashing starter battery alarm? If so what's the voltage of your starter battery - ideally measured at the battery AND the B1 terminal?


Sure a VSR would work, just be aware it would also trigger when the DC-DC charger was running, it's just sees a charge voltage level and engages. So your EHU light would be more of a "leisure battery charging" light. They're quite bulky though.

I'm trying to think of an arrangement of diodes that would give a true 240v charger only signal but can't see a way of doing it without also messing up the charger (diodes cause around 0.6v voltage drop) and a VSR is off the shelf.

It only flashes when the EHU cable is connected and power is being sent from the victron.

I can't test the voltage, embarrassed to say I don't have a multi meter.... It's been on the list for about 10 years!

From what I've read the signal needs to be 12v 50mA, so something to step the volts and amps down from the 240 board would be ideal as it's close by....

Thank you again

 

[pdid]

Are you still getting a flashing starter battery alarm? If so what's the voltage of your starter battery - ideally measured at the battery AND the B1 terminal?


Sure a VSR would work, just be aware it would also trigger when the DC-DC charger was running, it's just sees a charge voltage level and engages. So your EHU light would be more of a "leisure battery charging" light. They're quite bulky though.

I'm trying to think of an arrangement of diodes that would give a true 240v charger only signal but can't see a way of doing it without also messing up the charger (diodes cause around 0.6v voltage drop) and a VSR is off the shelf.

I've just checked again, the starter battery light is no longer flashing either plugged in or not.

My only concern now is that the white wire also acts as a switch for the main 12v distribution board to use mains rather than battery, and that with this not being connected I might always be on battery....

 

[roadtripper]

My only concern now is that the white wire also acts as a switch for the main 12v distribution board to use mains rather than battery, and that with this not being connected I might always be on battery....

I did wonder about that but it seems unlikely as you'd still want to use the leisure battery in preference to the starter battery even off grid, and the manual makes no mention of it (though it is badly translated so not the greatest manual!)

I'm 99% certain all it does is light an LED in the control panel, the other things you see are likely unrelated beyond the chance you've nudged some wiring while doing the work or had the ignition on/doors open a lot without driving while doing the work and the starter voltage is a bit low.

 

[pdid]

Yeah I'm fairly satisfied with where I'm at. It was meant to be a simple job, I've spent far too long on it!

Final thought is to splice into the 240 feed to the charger and run into a 12v led lighting transformer with a 0.5a output. Unsure as this would them give me 12v + and - whereas the CBE is just a single wire. I don't think it's exactly the correct wiring protocol to be using either.....

 

[roadtripper]

LED controller might not be ideal, they tend to have minimum loads. Not all of the cheap ones are will isolated from the mains either.

If you didn't want the bulk of a VSR you could perhaps use one of the battery low voltage cut off modules to switch a supply off when the battery voltage drops below charging voltage - but then that would mean it drawing a small amount of power all the time which isn't ideal.

 

[pdid]

This is the recommended vsr which isn't too bulky, again I'm not 100% on how to wire it in.

Hsthe Sea 12V 140A Voltage Sensitive Relay Battery Isolator Automatic Charging Relay Car Accessories for Car Battery Relay Yachting Dual Battery Isolator https://amzn.eu/d/03bp5BU9

 

[roadtripper]

Honestly if you're not confident just leave it for now and see if it bothers you enough to fix?

 

[pdid]

Honestly if you're not confident just leave it for now and see if it bothers you enough to fix?

Yeah your probably right. I'm sure it'll be fairly obvious once in hand but as long as everything works okay it's not an issue.

Thanks again

 

[pdid]

Further update to this.....

I was away in the van over the weekend hooked up. All okay other than the starter battery symbol started flashing again. The panel reading on the starter battery was 12.0v this dropped to 11.9 as we were about to set off home. The van started okay however.

I got one of the VBRs mentioned earlier in the thread and connected as suggested. This did solve the hookup symbol issue, however, as the 12v feed from the battery charger goes to the battery it's permanently live hence the hookup symbol is permanently lit.

Now I'm not sure whether this is an issue or not, I'm guessing that this would lead to starter battery being permanently trickle charged by the leisure battery which can't be a good thing.

I guess the workaround for this would then be to switch the white wire but it's just more wiring that I could probably do without....

I'm assuming there isn't anything that would do a similar job from the 230v to 12v which would negate the need for a switch....

Thanks

 

[pdid]

I have this diagram if it helps?

View attachment 205499
I used one of these 12 volt PSU s from ebay Snappy PSU-SNP6-12VF Power Supply 12VDC 0.5A 6W CV In-line CST
It is powered up as soon as the mains is turned on and gives the signal to plug 18 pin 2 on the DS-300. This allows the various CBE controllers to know that the mains is turned on. This enables van and leisure battery charging and lights the mains network indicator on the display. It also swaps over the fridge supply if appropriate If you have a CBE battery charger then this signal is supplied from the battery charger (assuming that it is powered up as soon as the mains comes on). There is no equivalent signal on the Victron charger.
This is what it all looks like in the van

View attachment 205511

Hope that is enough info for you. If not let me know which bits you want more details on
Cheers
Wil.

Finally sorted with this, I found the above quote from a few years ago.

I found an PSU that drops the 230AC down to 12V DC 0.5a on Amazon for £7, connected between the 230 CU and the white wire on the CBE. When hooked up I now get the correct symbol and all features os the CBE 12v consumer unit should be restored. Hopefully no more flashing battery....

I still have some winter battery requirements to arrange but that can wait for now.

Cheers

 

[ginkster]

Finally sorted with this, I found the above quote from a few years ago.

I found an PSU that drops the 230AC down to 12V DC 0.5a on Amazon for £7, connected between the 230 CU and the white wire on the CBE. When hooked up I now get the correct symbol and all features os the CBE 12v consumer unit should be restored. Hopefully no more flashing battery....

I still have some winter battery requirements to arrange but that can wait for now.

Cheers

Good find. I totally bypassed the CBE stuff and just use the DS300 as a fuse box (for now) and don’t get any flashing lights on the panel. I’ve not even noticed if the EHU light comes on or not. Possibly because I now don’t use EHU with lifepo4 and solar! The battery indicators are useless and (on my poverty 100 panel!) there is nothing else of use other than the basic on/off switches. In the future I will remove it and fit some CBE switches and USB chargers instead. If I want to know what’s going on with the power I use the Victron app. I guess if one has a dual voltage fridge or a better panel it is useful to connect the signal.

 

[roadtripper]

Finally sorted with this, I found the above quote from a few years ago.

I found an PSU that drops the 230AC down to 12V DC 0.5a on Amazon for £7, connected between the 230 CU and the white wire on the CBE. When hooked up I now get the correct symbol and all features os the CBE 12v consumer unit should be restored. Hopefully no more flashing battery....

I still have some winter battery requirements to arrange but that can wait for now.

Cheers

This was what I suggested in this post?

Lithium leisure battery upgrade

Page 8: Instructions My BB1230 is the green stripe model with one lithium setting.... Reading between the lines I can fit the temperature sensor but it would not be adjustable so set at 0c for lithium. The manual you linked suggests a maximum of +2c anyway which isn't really high enough...

www.t6forum.com

I highly doubt it's doing anything other than lighting the indicator, I suspect you have separate issues with your starter battery so keep an eye on that.