Euro 6 split charger fitted

Snoopy32

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Hi everyone
I have just bought my first camper and was told that the battery charges whilst driving, but it dosn't.
I have read the post regarding split charge relays on a euro 6, I can see a unit under the seat that says split charge relay, so I think that is causing my stop / start issue as well.
The question is I have a Sargent 160 unit that charges the battery while on a mains hook up which is working fine..
I know that I need to fit a Dc to Dc unit to keep the leisure battery charged but will it work with the current sargent unit and also will I be able to connect a solar setup to it at a later stage...?

I don't want to waste money on something that will need to be replaced but also can't afford to go to solar just yet, all sensible suggestions welcome
 
Hi.
What model of T6 do you have? This will go some way to allow people to help as various under seat electrics may be present.
Have a read about smart alternators (as fitted to all Bluemotion Transporters). They don't just charge while driving in the traditional sense. You may well be expecting something to happen in situations when it isn't designed to.
Finally, have a look at the "How I done it" threads by @Dellmassive . Lots and lots of info there on all sorts of customising, the list
is here .
 
Hi
Thanks for the reply, I have a 2017 blue motion which I understand can’t use the traditional split charge relay, it seems that someone has fitted one without knowing enough about this. I want to fit a dc to dc controller and later fit a solar panel, I don’t exactly know what works with what
I want to charge while driving plus have mains hook up and solar. Can I do that. ?

I will look at the posts mentioned and seek if it helps.
 
Hi
Thanks for the reply, I have a 2017 blue motion which I understand can’t use the traditional split charge relay, it seems that someone has fitted one without knowing enough about this. I want to fit a dc to dc controller and later fit a solar panel, I don’t exactly know what works with what
I want to charge while driving plus have mains hook up and solar. Can I do that. ?

I will look at the posts mentioned and seek if it helps.
You can do everything you want to do, relatively easily with basic electrical skills. Your split charge relay may well be OEM VW factory fit. They still fit them which is bo***x, but that’s another conversation.
So to your question:-
Leave the split charge relay in place, & take the output from the relay & use it to feed the input of a B2B charger, the output of the B2B feeds the leisure battery. The B2B goes in series after the relay.
Re: solar. The solar system is stand alone & connects directly to the leisure battery via a (preferably MPPT) regulator.
It doesn’t have to be complicated, avoid unnecessary switches/isolators/complications etc.. It’s perfectly feasible to build an idiot proof fit & forget system that requires minimal human input.
 
A relay should charge your leisure battery to some extent, even if a DC-DC is the ideal solution. If it’s not charging at all, it’s worth checking why that is. Measure the voltage at the leisure battery and signal wire when the engine is running to verify whether it’s working at all.
 
I to have recently purchased my first T6.1, it is also fitted with a Sargent EC160, a Durite Smart Split Charge Relay (SCR) and a Sparks dual solar Charge Controller (MPPT 5012A-Duo-bt).

After doing some research I understand that use of an SCR may not provide optimum charging of the Leisure Battery but if it is being topped up by the MPPT solar charger does it really matter?

For some reason the 2nd trickle charge output (II START) from the solar charger has not been connected for some reason! Please advise if it is practical and safe to connect the second trickle charge output (II START) from the dual solar charger to the input side of the Durite SCR as per the dotted red line on the attached wiring schematic?

Note the Durite Smart Split Charge Relay does not use a D+ signal
 

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  • Wiring Diagram.pdf
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Which precise model of Durite? Pics of your batteries and install always help give context.

It's possible it's not an SCR but a bidirectional VSR, in which case connecting the second solar output wouldn't be needed.
 
Is it this one?


In which case it is somewhere between a basic SCR and the full bidirectional VSR and triggers itself at these voltages on the van electrics side.

Screenshot_20230919-233337-01.jpeg
If it's factory default then looks like once the van electrics reach 12.8v for 5 seconds it will connect the 2 batteries, and it will hold them connected until the voltage on the van electrics drops below 11.5v for 5 minutes.

That would concern me as that's quite a low voltage for your main AGM battery.

Are you having low voltage issues on your main battery and is that why you are looking at the solar?
 
For D+ see this thread, short answer just pick up an ignition live from the dash fusebox


Many DC-DC do not require an ignition feed by the way, they can normally detect engine running from monitoring the voltage.

Again if you add pictures there are a bunch of folks that can offer advice around.

If you've disconnected the feed into the relay I hope you made it safe and removed fuses so it's not live!

If you find you are getting good solar performance there is no harm in trying to trickle charge the starter, but I would advise not connecting with the relay in place.

Using the van radio by the way uses a large amount of power as all the van electrics are powered up as well, better off getting a small radio/Bluetooth speaker if you do that regularly. Some folks fit a basic car stereo in the rear powered from the LB.

For an interim solution there are a couple of things you could try.

First you could try setting a different profile in the current relay, number 9 looks a lot kinder. But reading the manual the way those are programmed looks... cumbersome, it does use things you already have though.

Second you could fit a Durite Dual VSR. They are still a poor choice compared to full DC-DC but I suspect will be kinder to your batteries than your current relay. Being Dual it senses voltages on both batteries, so as well as connecting when the alternator is charging will also connect when your LB is well charged from solar and divert some of that charge to your starter. It's important to keep in mind that this is still a poor overall solution, as the supplier states the correct solution is a DC-DC charger.

But, in general, no topping up the leisure charge with solar or the Sargent isn't going to really help.

Everytime the alternator kicks in the relay will connect your (potentially) fully charged leisure battery to the van battery. Assuming they are the same battery type (if they are not you have more issues to consider) then they will equalise and quite a lot of current will flow as charge transfers out of your leisure battery into your van battery. With the combined batteries now likely over 80% charge your smart alternator will disengage and not charge until they are both below that point. So no matter where your leisure battery starts any time you run the engine in a very short time it will be back to 80%. Replacing that 20% is going to take probably 4 hours of solar, 2 hours of EHU.

If you did connect the second channel of your solar controller it will, I think, only provide up to 1amp of charge. That second channel is really only going to be effective if the batteries are truly independent, yours are not. If you charge the van battery up the rising voltage will trigger your relay to engage and connect both batteries until the van battery is drained to the cut off voltage.

You'd be better off looking to replace the relay with a DC-DC charger. Then it would indeed make sense to connect the second trickle charge channel. In your current system I think current is going to be washing back and forth and doing neither battery any favours lifetime wise.
 
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Thanks Roadtripper for such a comprehensive reply!
The Durite relay is the one you have selected!
When I first got the Van I disconnected the van battery to the input side of the relay due to a drained starting battery and have not yet reconnected it! The solar system has been keeping the LB fully charged whilst we have been away, and the van has been starting OK.
However, intermittent trips away (with the van spending much of its time on the drive) and listening to the football on the van radio last weekend resulted in another flat van battery requiring a jump start!
With the winter months setting in and limited van usage I was hoping that the 2nd solar output (1A) would keep the vans battery topped-up!
Because the Durite relay doesn't have the D+ (ignition feed) and the van is fully fitted out fitting a DC-DC charger will involve some effort, the most practical short term measure maybe to do away with the Durite Relay altogether, run the batteries independently like you said and connect the 2nd solar output direct to the van battery?
What do you think and can you advise the best/easiest place to take an ignition feed from (don't think T6.1 has D+).
 
Thanks for all your advice; you have confirmed many of my thoughts!
Last question could you point me in the direction of DC-DC chargers that don't require an ignition feed?
 
For DC-DC chargers @Dellmassive has tried most of them and there is a lot of information on this thread - worth a cup of coffee/tea and going through:


I'd start by looking at the Victron Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-30A Non-Isolated DC-DC charger - which has software to detect engine run which is a popular choice

There is also a new one from Sterling Power BB1225 which works using vibration and is also bi directional and reasonably priced. I don't think anyone has tried that one yet as it's very new.

There are other popular choices such as the Redarc series and the CTEK but those tend to be chosen for the combined Solar input (which you already have) and in the Redarc case the high current charge for lithium.

Keep in mind any DC-DC charger is an active device so will need an amount of cooling.

I do think you'd be better off making a plan to move to DC-DC rather than trying other routes, it also puts you in a better place if when you LB reaches the end of life you decided to switch to lithium.
 
For DC-DC chargers @Dellmassive has tried most of them and there is a lot of information on this thread - worth a cup of coffee/tea and going through:


I'd start by looking at the Victron Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-30A Non-Isolated DC-DC charger - which has software to detect engine run which is a popular choice

There is also a new one from Sterling Power BB1225 which works using vibration and is also bi directional and reasonably priced. I don't think anyone has tried that one yet as it's very new.

There are other popular choices such as the Redarc series and the CTEK but those tend to be chosen for the combined Solar input (which you already have) and in the Redarc case the high current charge for lithium.

Keep in mind any DC-DC charger is an active device so will need an amount of cooling.

I do think you'd be better off making a plan to move to DC-DC rather than trying other routes, it also puts you in a better place if when you LB reaches the end of life you decided to switch to lithium.

I hadn't seen that Sterling one before - that vibration sensing idea seems pretty clever in theory, if they've nailed the implementation it would probably be more accurate than an ignition feed, although the D+ is obviously the ideal solution. The bidirectional feature seems like a good idea to me too, and sounds slightly smarter than the usual trickle chargers they build into those things. The quoted efficiency of 98% also encouraging, miles better than the Victron Orion so hopefully it won't heat up too much. In short, it sounds good to me, let's hope the actual implementation is decent!
 
Yes I'm very interested in it as it would be a potentially good fit for my own needs. I've used a chunk of Sterling stuff in the marine sector and generally like it - I'm not personally a fan of their older DC-DC chargers but most of that is because they are quite complex but often crop up alongside a not very well thought out Sargent install in conversions.

As you say the bi-directional feature, if it works, could be a cracking feature.
 
I purchased the Sterling one and very satisfied; easy to install and keeps the van battery topped-up when van was not in use, as can be seen attached.
 

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  • Starter Battery Performance.pdf
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Nice plots....

What was you using for the data acquisition?
 
I purchased the Sterling one and very satisfied; easy to install and keeps the van battery topped-up when van was not in use, as can be seen attached.

That Sterling does seem like a good option. The included reverse charging is a bit of a killer feature, always seems a bit odd to have to wire in a separate trickle/reverse charger to keep the starter topped up when the DC-DC could easily just do it, plus the pricing looks very competitive compared to a lot of the alternatives.

My old votronic DC-DC has the reverse charging feature and it's amazing, but that doesn't work with lithium so if my trusty old factory 75Ah AGM leisure finally gives up the ghost and I go lithium then I'll probably end up going for that sterling DC-DC unit.
 
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