Leisure battery info for a newbie like me!

[Mike1969]

Hi - some basic questions from a new member about a leisure battery please.

We’re thinking of having a leisure battery installed as we will be wild camping only without the ability to hook up to mains power.

We’re getting increasingly confused by what the company who is going to be installing this is telling us - mainly that anything we were thinking of running of it would ‘flatten your battery in no time’ - things like a kettle or even (heaven forbid) a small low power convection heater.

Which is making us think what on earth do people actually use a battery for if any of the above is such a bad idea? Surely people aren’t paying £100s & £100s of pounds just so they can have a small light on and that’s it. Or is the company I’m talking to being very pessimistic?

We were hoping that a fully charged leisure battery would give us enough power for 1 night to have a light on from say 9pm to 11pm, boil a kettle a couple of times for a brew, maybe run a small camping cool box / fridge and have the option of heating the van for say about an hour. Apparently we’re being told that’s unrealistic. What do people think?

 

[bootsam]

Take a note of what you will be using in Amps. ie 1A for 1 hour = 1Ah. If your battery provides 100Ah, you will be able to run that for 100hrs. A kettle is roughly 12.5A. A 1-3kW air heater could draw a fair few Amps too (could be as high as 5-10A, not sure @Dellmassive will help as hes an electric guy). That will eat your battery. LED lights and the like will be fine, but things with large current draws are your enemy.

 

[AussieMick]

Anything with a heating element draws a lot of power, ie small electric fan heater, kettle, etc.
Running 12v lights no problem
Running 12v fridge for 24 hours in hot weather will use a reasonable bit of power but should be ok. Cooler weather no problem.
Ideally you want some way of putting power back into battery, solar, ehu with smart battery charger etc.
Remember you should only use 50 percent of your battery before recharging or you shorten its life.
Eg 100ah battery, try to only use 50ah.
150 ah battery, 75ah and so on.

 

[DXX]

The converter is correct.
You can either run a leisure battery or save a few hundred pounds and use the starter battery with a real risk of being stranded with a non starting engine.

 

[Dellmassive]

have a look over here:


start with the fridge one and go on from there . . .

Fridges & Cold Beer -- How I Done It --

Fridges & Cold Beer -- How I Done It -- For Most Beer Lovers, Cold Beer is a Must. (especially Larger) and for Her-Indoors a cold wine or G&T will always help smooth the situation . . . . maybe even Cold POP for the kids (My nanas term) Then there is the necessities of camping and Fridges...

www.t6forum.com

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POWER:

• https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf
• Ignition Live Under Passenger Seat - How It's Done -
• Installing 12v Socket /s - How It's Done -
• 12v Ignition Feed + 5xusb Charging From Ign Feed - Today's Install
• 12v Aux Feed + 5xusb Charging From Aux Battery - Today's Install
• Battery Chargers - How I Did It -
• Which Jump Starter?
• Lithium Lifepo4 12v Batteries - - - Time For An Upgrade ? - - -
• Battery Charging - Main Battery Earth Point -
• Dc-dc Charger (for Leisure Battery) -- How I Done It --
• Stop/start...regen...smart Alternator... Dc-dc Charger For Leisure Battery Or Not?
• Full Van Ecu Reset (capacitive Discharge) -- How I Done It --
• Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It --
• Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --
• 12v/240v Power Inverters -- How I Done It --
• Awesome 3-in-1 Battery Bank - How I done It -
• 12v Lithium Leisure Battery Box 138Ah 1766Wh -- How I Done It --
• Fridges & Cold Beer -- How I Done It --
• Flag Poles and Fairy lights -- "how I Done It" --

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Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread
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[VanDamMan]

Hi ...it’s a real conundrum battery power...you’ve got to put back what you use...you can’t realistically cover the van in solar panels...
a good idea is to build the system to allow expansion..as example a good charging system will allow solar to be added ..but put the cables in while converting so easier to connect too ...or add a second battery later ...Not one size fits all...but by installing a flexible system it grows with you.....storage Is a premium in a van..I use a battery in a box to piggyback my leisure battery which gives lots of flexibility ....

 

[Mike1969]

Thanks for all the replies, really helpful. Think I might go a high end portable solution from Hyundai which seems to offer superior performance than a built in leisure battery at a fraction of the cost. It does seem that anything ‘built in’ from this, to a bed, to a cooker etc immediately triples (at least) the price!! Cheers, Mike

 

[DXX]

Thanks for all the replies, really helpful. Think I might go a high end portable solution from Hyundai which seems to offer superior performance than a built in leisure battery at a fraction of the cost. It does seem that anything ‘built in’ from this, to a bed, to a cooker etc immediately triples (at least) the price!! Cheers, Mike

Who’s the converter? Tripling the purchase price to install seems extreme.

 

[Dellmassive]

welcome to the world of VW and conversions.

im loving the Hyundai power pack, and waiting for some real world reviews.

just note the main difference between the mobile packs and a fitted leisure system is capacity.

a fitted system will always give more capacity as its a bigger, heavier, battery . . . lithium or not.

the mobile packs are just that . . . . mobile, and as such have to be lighter,

. . . . .also factor in how you plan to recharge this mobile pack when you are off grid? . . .

running the electric kettle a few times will run it flat?


....



so you need to buy solar to charge it, or a DC-DC charger, or buy two of them, etc etc etc


start adding it all up and compare the capacity you will find it all balances out about the same.

 

[Mike1969]

welcome to the world of VW and conversions.

im loving the Hyundai power pack, and waiting for some real world reviews.

just note the main difference between the mobile packs and a fitted leisure system is capacity.

a fitted system will always give more capacity as its a bigger, heavier, battery . . . lithium or not.

the mobile packs are just that . . . . mobile, and as such have to be lighter,

. . . . .also factor in how you plan to recharge this mobile pack when you are off grid? . . .

running the electric kettle a few times will run it flat?


....



so you need to buy solar to charge it, or a DC-DC charger, or buy two of them, etc etc etc


start adding it all up and compare the capacity you will find it all balances out about the same.

Thanks for the heads up - I must admit, if boiling a kettle a few times is enough to drain a power pack costing nearly a grand that is a bit disappointing. Perhaps I’ll just boil some water on my stove and save my cash!!

 

[CAB]

Thanks for the heads up - I must admit, if boiling a kettle a few times is enough to drain a power pack costing nearly a grand that is a bit disappointing. Perhaps I’ll just boil some water on my stove and save my cash!!

Heating water is incredibly energy intensive, it takes so much more power than lighting or phone charging.

If you have a gas or other stove much better to use that instead.

 

[Dellmassive]

Gas always is and always will be the most efficient way to heat water...

Cup of tea, cooking or central heating . . . . . Gas is best.


But for everything else.... led lights, charging kit, USB and electric then its 12v systrm and an inverter.

 

[bootsam]

For comparison air has a specific heat capacity of 1.024 J/kg.K. (it takes 1.024 Joules to heat 1kg of air by 1°K) Water is 4.2 J/kg.K. So to increase water temp by 1°K takes 4 times as much energy as it would for air. Save a bit of energy by not letting it boil. Heat it to circa 60-70°C (unless you get your water from the swamp)

Sorry if im teaching anyone to suck eggs. Oh and my SHC are approximate for any pedant engineers.

 

[VanDamMan]

That Hyundai Hps 1100 ( 100 amp) @£950 looks good ..but takes a long time to charge on solar

it’s a pity you can’t use the van to charge on the run ( or am I wrong ..) I started off using Agm batteries , so to change to lithium the cost is too high for now...as @Dellmassive will tell you can’t mix technology ...if your van is still at the converters ...I’d make sure the electric system uses lithium from day one and see if you can charge via the van ( my battery in a box 100amp Agm cost £200 + 2 battery cables...the system can take the extra load )
Happy camping

edit.... your having second thoughts.....Gas....

 

[Skyliner33]

For comparison air has a specific heat capacity of 1.024 J/kg.K. (it takes 1.024 Joules to heat 1kg of air by 1°K) Water is 4.2 J/kg.K. So to increase water temp by 1°K takes 4 times as much energy as it would for air. Save a bit of energy by not letting it boil. Heat it to circa 60-70°C (unless you get your water from the swamp)

Sorry if im teaching anyone to suck eggs. Oh and my SHC are approximate for any pedant engineers.

Just to point out, there shouldn't be a degree symbol used for the Kelvin scale.
And also the SHC of water is approx. 4200J/kgK, and air approx 1000J/kgK.

Pedant physics teacher here.

 

[bootsam]

1.024 kJ/kg.K and 4.179 kJ/kg.K. I forgot the kilo. Doh!

And its only 1.024 at constant pressure ner and 40°C, or do I have to get my steam tables out? Reaches for Rogers & Mayhew tables...



pedant Mechanical Engineer returns serve...

(I've always used the ° symbol on K. Bad habit but I cant shake it)

 

[t0mb0]

As everyone has said, heating is very energy-intensive which is the reason why practically all off-ehu camper vans heat both water and the van interior using either gas or diesel power. Once you've got that sorted, the leisure battery is for fridges/pumps/lights/gizmos which is well within the capabilities of standard leisure batteries with appropriate charging facilities - generally solar panels and DC-DC converters for off-ehu use.

People put a lot of effort/expense into their electrical setups but we've found that other constraints on wild-camping are far more binding, water/showers/toilet/waste etc. Don't neglect these at the expense of filling your van up with lithium batteries!

 

[t0mb0]

As everyone has said, heating is very energy-intensive which is the reason why practically all off-ehu camper vans heat both water and the van interior using either gas or diesel power. Once you've got that sorted, the leisure battery is for fridges/pumps/lights/gizmos which is well within the capabilities of standard leisure batteries with appropriate charging facilities - generally solar panels and DC-DC converters for off-ehu use.

People put a lot of effort/expense into their electrical setups but we've found that other constraints on wild-camping are far more binding, water/showers/toilet/waste etc. Don't neglect these at the expense of filling your van up with lithium batteries!

I've just noticed you've mentioned a cool box/fridge in your original post. In order to wild camp effectively, you likely need a decent compressor fridge. The cheap ones draw way more power than compressor designs. My comments above about being fine with a standard leisure battery setup assume it's a decent compressor fridge, a cheap fridge or coolbox will flatten your battery horribly quickly!

 

[Mud Digger]

100 w ÷ 240 v = 0.4 amp per hour 1000 w ÷ 240 = 4.1 amp per hour

100 w ÷ 12 v = 8.3 amp per hour

1000 w ÷ 12 v = 83 amp per hour = an hour on a 160 Ah Battery using 50% 80 Ah Battery

Cool box = 50 w ÷ 12 v = 4.1 amp per hour has a non stop fan

 

[DXX]

Heating, cooking and hot water taken care of in one unit.

Wallas XC Duo, combined Diesel cooker and heater.
Wallas | XC Duo | XC Duo | Easy and warm camper travelling
Many advantages over gas;
No explosive gas onboard.
No need to reduce water tank capacity or loose spare wheel to locate the gas tank.
Simple installation without need for a gas safety certificate.
No open flame, reduced fire hazard.
Runs on same fuel as van, economical and unlikely to run out.
No condensation in van from burning gas.
No carbon monoxide in van.
Combined thermostat controlled heater and cooker.