Low temperature lithium battery

[Dellmassive]

i asked POWEROAD to confirm the install orientation.

can they be fitted on side?

++++

Hi Dellmassive

The best way is fitted laying on the top(the terminal side);

You can also fitted laying on the side, but do not laying on the bottom.

Peace,
Jason


POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.

7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China

Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com

Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com

Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com

++++

 

[Mick]

What does that actually mean? I guess terminals up or sideways but not terminals down! I think.

 

[Dellmassive]

clarification . .




++++

Hi Dellmassive

This orientation is okay.

Peace,
Jason

+++

 

[Dellmassive]

@Mick

how have you been getting on with your sleep?

I've had no issues here . . .

any load or charge source connected bring battery out of sleep.

BM2 connected is enough to keep battery awake. (possibly from BT RF poling drawing small power now and again)

it seems the only thing on your side is the the Victron BVV712 is SO good at being LOW POWERED that its not enough to keep the battery awake.

....


But the BMV712 should revert back to the same SOC and settings after the power cycle - provided the option (start 100% SOC) is switched off.?

....

 

[Mick]

@Dellmassive

I went out to the van. Nothing is switched on.

BMV needed 2 firmware updates. After the 1st update BMV showing no voltage. 2nd firmware for settings complete showing 100% charge on app 13.3v.

Battery was asleep and wouldn't connect to bluetooth. Switched on lights they all worked still wouldn't connect to bluetooth. Turned off light, the 3 charge LEDs immediately came up on the battery, bluetooth connected and BMS shows 89% (solar is off). Set BMV to 89%.

I'm happy with all that cos I dont want the battery sitting at 100% all the time.

 

[Mick]

Here we go again. Battery went to sleep and now my MPPT controller cannot connect to Bluetooth again.
I’ve got to disconnect it both the battery & the panel reconnect and then Bluetooth it.
That’s twice now.

 

[Dellmassive]

Just fit a BM2.

I've got a spare one in the garage if you want me to bring it to camper site.

 

[t0mb0]

It hard to escape the feeling that some of this stuff is too clever by half.

Technology should be used to make things simpler, not more bloody complicated…

 

[Mick]

That’s not the issue mate. I can have a constant 0.05 a current flow all the time.
What I can’t understand is why the battery going to sleep turns off the MPPT Bluetooth connectivity.

there is still power from the the solar cos it’s on float still.

 

[Dellmassive]

The mttp... must be conected to a battery all the time...

Conections are battery first, then PV.. disconection is the same in reverse.

If the battery is going to sleep mode its switching power Off to the mppt..... which is not good for the victron unit. (The manual says that too).

If you wanted to use the sleep mode feature you should isolate the PV first.

I have two of these setup and have no issues...they dont go to sleep unless the terminals are disconnected.

But even when kept awake for 3weeks with just a bm2 conected... the battery didnt drop 1% . As there is next to no current flow.

Even if mine are sleeping, any power in or out will wake them....and restart the 24hr sleep timer.


Try a bm2 for a week and see how you get on.... its an easy safe fix for your symptoms.

 

[Mick]

I have one I’ll try it out. However leaving an iPhone plug in the inverter May do the same. I’ll try it.

Any way the fridge Is on now and will remain on until mid August.

 

[DEH]

*UPDATE*

Have been wanting to put an update on here earlier but wanted to make sure that I had all the info before doing so. The support from both Alpha battery's and Poweroad have been great.

I eventually managed to get my system wired in parallel with both Poweroad low temp batteries fitted under the passenger and driver's seat and connected together with 50mm cables between them. On charging them with the REDARC 50amp dc-dc charger the battery went into cell protection mode once the batteries were near the end of the charge cycle. It appeared that the batteries were struggling to balance as a number of cells were charging quicker than the rest. After a few cycles and over a few days when they didn't settle and John from Alpha battery's contacted Poweroad, who than sent out another pair of batteries for me to try.

The same result happened and again the batteries didn't balance with either 2 or 3 of the cells going into cell protection once the cell had reached its max voltage but the battery had not reached its full charge.

It appears that having the batteries in the standard configuration where they are connected together via a positive and negative cable was causing this. Have included a diagram below to show the connection.




Alpha battery's contacted Poweroad who have suggested/updated that they would need to be connected as per the diagram they sent below. I.E via 2 busbars with equal cables for the pos and the neg.



Unfortunately due to my set up this was not a viable option for me given that both bases had been fitted and wired but also because it would be tricky trying to wire the busbars and batteries as above.

This meant that I had to change the batteries for another manufacturer. Having looked at various options I went for the Renogy:-

12V 100AH SMART LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERY W/ SELF-HEATING FUNCTION​

As they are the nearly the same size and configuration they dropped straight into where the Poweroad's had been fitted and are also self heating for cold weather. They are connected via parallel connection and the ethernet cable between the 2 battery's, I have also connect the BT-2 bluetooth module with allows for remote monitoring.

John from Alpha Batteries have been excellent in sorting/communicating and keeping me updated and resolving the problem's that have arisen and also managed to order the Renogy batteries.

They have only been in a week and seem to be working and charging fine. Will update once I have had the chance to test the Renogy some more.

 

[Long tall John]

Good write-up @DEH. Clear and informative.

 

[t0mb0]

*UPDATE*

Have been wanting to put an update on here earlier but wanted to make sure that I had all the info before doing so. The support from both Alpha battery's and Poweroad have been great.

I eventually managed to get my system wired in parallel with both Poweroad low temp batteries fitted under the passenger and driver's seat and connected together with 50mm cables between them. On charging them with the REDARC 50amp dc-dc charger the battery went into cell protection mode once the batteries were near the end of the charge cycle. It appeared that the batteries were struggling to balance as a number of cells were charging quicker than the rest. After a few cycles and over a few days when they didn't settle and John from Alpha battery's contacted Poweroad, who than sent out another pair of batteries for me to try.

The same result happened and again the batteries didn't balance with either 2 or 3 of the cells going into cell protection once the cell had reached its max voltage but the battery had not reached its full charge.

It appears that having the batteries in the standard configuration where they are connected together via a positive and negative cable was causing this. Have included a diagram below to show the connection.


View attachment 122189

Alpha battery's contacted Poweroad who have suggested/updated that they would need to be connected as per the diagram they sent below. I.E via 2 busbars with equal cables for the pos and the neg.

View attachment 122197

Unfortunately due to my set up this was not a viable option for me given that both bases had been fitted and wired but also because it would be tricky trying to wire the busbars and batteries as above.

This meant that I had to change the batteries for another manufacturer. Having looked at various options I went for the Renogy:-

12V 100AH SMART LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERY W/ SELF-HEATING FUNCTION​

View attachment 122198

As they are the nearly the same size and configuration they dropped straight into where the Poweroad's had been fitted and are also self heating for cold weather. They are connected via parallel connection and the ethernet cable between the 2 battery's, I have also connect the BT-2 bluetooth module with allows for remote monitoring.

John from Alpha Batteries have been excellent in sorting/communicating and keeping me updated and resolving the problem's that have arisen and also managed to order the Renogy batteries.

They have only been in a week and seem to be working and charging fine. Will update once I have had the chance to test the Renogy some more.

I guess multiple self contained lithium batteries in parallel is always going to be a bit less than ideal in an engineering sense as ideally you’d have a single bms managing all the cells.

 

[Mick]

After consulting a number of Victron gurus on FB I have now linked my BMV & MPPT to the VE networking which optimised my Solar charging. On return from the campersite weekend I plugged in my Victron IP22 12v 15a charger which immediately went to a FW update. This has now built in the ability to a have the charger as a part of the VE network: very recent addition - check yours .

When the Poweroad went into over voltage protection at 100% SOC I synced the BMV to 100%. The difference is now amazing. All 3 Victron are now in sync controlled by the BMV. My 100w solar panel which has never given me more than 90w- ish now regularly charging at 100w with a 102w couple of days ago.

I had an issue getting to 15a charging. the instant I put it in VE networking mode it jumped straight to 14.8a (SOC 54%) and climbed to 15a gradually dropping to 3a as it approach 100%. At 100% SOC it stopped all battery charging (Poweroad showed standby status) but supplied 4a for the fridge when it kicked in & 0.5 for the inverter when switched on. I added a cool box another 4a total 8.5a and the BMS still showed standby status whilst the charger provided the 'direct' power.

.

The Poweroad is happy so am I - until the next post

 

[Dilbert]

my Victron IP22 12v 15a charger which immediately went to a FW update. This has now built in the ability to a have the charger as a part of the VE network: very recent addition - check yours

FYI This update sadly only applies to Revision 2 of the Victron Blue Smart IP22 Chargers which have different hardware.

To quote Victron: "Update for Blue Smart IP22 Chargers REV2 only; starting production date week 24 of 2020 (serial number HQ2024nnnnn and newer). The hardware revision printed on the the product label should be “hw rev 02” or higher".

Support for VE.Smart networking

• Blink status LEDs briefly once every 4 seconds to indicate VE.Smart networking is active
• Added support for synchronized charging, allowing to parallel multiple chargers and synchronize their charge algorithms. Compatible with SmartSolar chargers, where the Blue Smart charger will become the charge master.

VictronConnect changelog and beta releases [Victron Energy]

www.victronenergy.com

 

[Mick]

FYI This update sadly only applies to Revision 2 of the Victron Blue Smart IP22 Chargers which have different hardware.

To quote Victron: "Update for Blue Smart IP22 Chargers REV2 only; starting production date week 24 of 2020 (serial number HQ2024nnnnn and newer). The hardware revision printed on the the product label should be “hw rev 02” or higher".

Support for VE.Smart networking

• Blink status LEDs briefly once every 4 seconds to indicate VE.Smart networking is active
• Added support for synchronized charging, allowing to parallel multiple chargers and synchronize their charge algorithms. Compatible with SmartSolar chargers, where the Blue Smart charger will become the charge master.

VictronConnect changelog and beta releases [Victron Energy]

www.victronenergy.com

@Dilbert I've had my charger 4 weeks and for sure it was not capable of VE networking until I got the FW update on Friday. I did try.

This was the 2nd update since I bought it. So I think the last update (3.4) was the VE enabling FW.

Yet until about 4 days ago Victron support have been telling people (and it was on their website) that the microprocessors in the charger were not capable of this.

One of the guys on FB is not a happy bunny. He bought his charger 9 months ago in October a good few months after the newer version came in.

Still being told yesterday morning that he has an older version that will not VE Network so he has been sold an older model!

 

[Dellmassive]

Ill have to check mine....

Prob older v1 as had them a year..

 

[Dellmassive]

looks like mine are 2018 so Rev#1 editions - No VE on these then.

though they do have the history logging now . . . . which is nice.

 

[Dellmassive]

thanks for the link @Dilbert

WOW thats a nice update. . . . @Mick look at the changes.

v5.42 (Released officially)​

2021-06-23
Changes


Blue Smart Charger:

• Add firmware for future IP65 6V/12V model (mandatory installation upon connection):
  • First official release
• Add re-bulk method setting (IP22 REV2 only)
• Allow full current range on IP22 REV2 models (IP22 REV2 only)
• Fixed demo mode for build-in battery types
• Added explanation to recondition voltage setting
• Fix bulk time unit in CSV history export
• Add firmware v3.40 for rev2 models: (Optional update)
  • Update for Blue Smart IP22 Chargers REV2 only; starting production date week 24 of 2020 (serial number HQ2024nnnnn and newer). The hardware revision printed on the the product label should be “hw rev 02” or higher.
  • Support for VE.Smart networking
    • Blink status LEDs briefly once every 4 seconds to indicate VE.Smart networking is active
    • Added support for synchronized charging, allowing to parallel multiple chargers and synchronize their charge algorithms. Compatible with SmartSolar chargers, where the Blue Smart charger will become the charge master.
      • The PV power of all solar chargers is totalized by the charge master and broadcasted into the network to be displayed in VictronConnect when connected to a solar charger.
      • The battery idle voltage at sunrise, needed for aborption time calculation, is taken from the solar charge master upon master take-over. This value is continued to be broadcasted into the network for the solar chargers, to be able to continue charging if the Blue Smart Chargers are disconnected from the network.
      • Manual equalisation from the solar charger settings menu in VictronConnect will be delegated to all devices in the network by the charge master.
      • Enforce re-bulk voltage method, to prevent premature re-bulking when only the charge master is providing the full current. This setting is only enforced when the charge master has detected other chargers in the network and will continue to use the user selected method is case of stand-alone mode. The enforced setting is volatile, meaning that when the charger is restarted it will revert back to the last value the user has selected.
    • Added support for VSense; to be used for cable loss compsensation for individual network nodes
    • Added support for TSense; to be used for temperature compensation and low battery temperature cut*off, required for lithium batteries.
    • Added support for ICharge; when available, the total charge current of all chargers on the network will be used for the tail current.
    • Added support for ISense; when available, the battery current will be used for the tail current. This value is prioritized over the ICharge value. Requires a BMV or SmartShunt.
    • VE.Smart networking settings will be reset upon a “Reset to defaults” in VictronConnect.
  • Added low battery temperature cut-off
    • Requires VE.Smart networking temperature sensor, e.g. Smart Battery Sense or SmartShunt
    • When pressing the `Why is my charger off?` button in VictronConnect it will state that the charger is off due to a low battery temperature.
    • Because the charger cannot be totally switched off, the setpoints are set to lowest value possible, i.e. 12.8V and 25% * Inominal for a 12V unit.
    • Note for Victron Smart Lithium batteries, above feature is not relevant. Since then the BMS will disable the charge when the batteries are below 5°C, and also in case of cell over voltage. More clearly: its not necessary to buy a Smart Battery Sense to make sure a Phoenix Smart Charger stops charging a Victron Smart Lithium Battery below 5°C.
  • Add tail current functionality
    • When the charge current is below the threshold for 1 minute, the absorption stage is ended and the charger will switch to float/storage.
  • Add re-bulk method based on voltage; this method can be selected using the “Re-bulk method” setting in VictronConnect
    • When the charge current is below the threshold for 1 minute, the absorption stage is ended and the charger will switch to float/storage. Note that the re-bulk current setting is ignored when this method is selected.
    • The default re-bulk behavior remains unchanged, to be able to use the product as mobile charger.
  • Allow 0% recondition current
    • This fixes an issue with the VictronConnect lithium preset
    • Setting it to 0% skips the recondition stage, if enabled
  • The charge current is now adjustable over the full range, from 25*100% * Inominal
  • The recondition current is now configurable from 0-50% (0=disabled)
  • Improved temperature compensation
    • Compensate down to -20°C for bulk and absorption, instead of only 6°C. During float and storage, the compensation is only down to 6°C, as per best practises: to charge a very cold battery, increase the charge voltage; but not to “float” a battery. With this change the temperature compensation works the same as our Solar Chargers as well as Multi and Quattro inverter/chargers.
  • Add hardware check for internal temperature sensor
    • In case malfunction, the temperature derating and compensation works incorrectly
    • An error 23 will be issued in case of sensor malfunction; this is not auto-recoverable and requires a power cycle of the unit. If the error persists, the unit is broken.
  • Allow absorption time less than 1 hour (community request)
    • When adaptive charging is selected, the minimum absorption time of 30 minute is still honored. When a fixed absorption time is selected, it is possible to disable the entire absorption stage.
  • Improve bluetooth connectability with VictronConnect
• Show hardware revision for IP22 demo products:
  • Rev2 models have different capabilities than the Rev1 ones and thus different settings