Yeah, I suppose it's only a major issue if you're running a tracker or dashcam or something from it. Does the app connected to the BMS show continuous current as well as SoC? If so, does it literally show 0A when drawing anything below 1A? If the BMS really doesn't register <1A at all, presumably the SoC estimate is very inaccurate when a lot of the draw is below 1A because it just doesn't register? Hopefully this isn't the case, and the <1A load is only an issue with regard to the sleep triggering.
Low temperature lithium battery
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Yeah, I suppose it's only a major issue if you're running a tracker or dashcam or something from it. Does the app connected to the BMS show continuous current as well as SoC? If so, does it literally show 0A when drawing anything below 1A? If the BMS really doesn't register <1A at all, presumably the SoC estimate is very inaccurate when a lot of the draw is below 1A because it just doesn't register? Hopefully this isn't the case, and the <1A load is only an issue with regard to the sleep triggering.
@t0mb0
yes its shows the live current & voltage in/out.
but only shows above the 1.0A mark. (im sure its logging it in the background somewhere regards to SOC, or at least should work it out as the voltage drops . . . some smart analytics volts vs SOC - for small parasitic loads bellow the 1.0A load mark )
example here:
you can see the Victron shunt logging +0.41A going into the battery (charging)
The battery BMS shows 100% SOC and "STANDBY" mode.
.
basically below 1.0A this battery will go to SLEEP.
it will not show LIVE current below 1.0A.
I asked Powered if the SLEEP timer could be adjusted in a future FW release . . . for example increasing the sleep time from 24hrs to 48hrs/3days would sort out my symptom.
.
yes its shows the live current & voltage in/out.
but only shows above the 1.0A mark. (im sure its logging it in the background somewhere regards to SOC, or at least should work it out as the voltage drops . . . some smart analytics volts vs SOC - for small parasitic loads bellow the 1.0A load mark )
example here:
you can see the Victron shunt logging +0.41A going into the battery (charging)
The battery BMS shows 100% SOC and "STANDBY" mode.
.
basically below 1.0A this battery will go to SLEEP.
it will not show LIVE current below 1.0A.
I asked Powered if the SLEEP timer could be adjusted in a future FW release . . . for example increasing the sleep time from 24hrs to 48hrs/3days would sort out my symptom.
.
Ah, ok, it does seem pretty strange to not display current below 1A - if it's deep in the BMS logic that it basically rounds current <1A to 0A then it is entirely possible that the SoC does become very inaccurate for <1A drain. A lot of stuff in a camper is pretty efficient, a few LED lights on could easily come in at below 1A. Alternatively, maybe the rounding to 0A only applies to the app display and sleep calculation, and the SOC calculation has access to more accurate low amperage readings.
testing continues . . . with the second PRLC-100 - this time in the van.
20A Renogy DC-DC
Fuse Bock
Victron quick connect
BM2 + Victron Smart SHunt
Poweroad PRLC-100 Lithium 100ah battery
Isolator switch.
we using the Renogy 20A dc-dc on lifepo4 mode@ 14.2v
interluinked with this MIDI fuse block.
.
cha\rging data.
here we are over the 100% SOC on the BMS - but the battery is still taking 20A charge current...
then the BMS kicks in a blocks the charge current due to the "cell over voltage alarm" . . . .
...
the BM2 battery monitor is showing the 14.2v that thecharger is putting out . . .
but the battery is showing its internal voltage of 13.29v as the bms starts balancing the cells.
+++
the final result . .
the battery is 100% charged.
the bms has blocked any incoming current - shown as 0A
The charger is keeping the system voltage at 14.2v
the battery internal voltage is dropping as the cell balancing continues.
the 12v system at this point is being powered from the dc-dc charger - around 3A, its not shown on the shunt or the battery as its not bing sourses from the battery, but a clamp meter shows the 3A coming from the 20A Renogy charger.
enigine switched off - test end.
more testing soon..
FYI - the Victron shunt was set with the Lifepo4 settings above.
20A Renogy DC-DC
Fuse Bock
Victron quick connect
BM2 + Victron Smart SHunt
Poweroad PRLC-100 Lithium 100ah battery
Isolator switch.
we using the Renogy 20A dc-dc on lifepo4 mode@ 14.2v
interluinked with this MIDI fuse block.
.
cha\rging data.
here we are over the 100% SOC on the BMS - but the battery is still taking 20A charge current...
then the BMS kicks in a blocks the charge current due to the "cell over voltage alarm" . . . .
...
the BM2 battery monitor is showing the 14.2v that thecharger is putting out . . .
but the battery is showing its internal voltage of 13.29v as the bms starts balancing the cells.
+++
the final result . .
the battery is 100% charged.
the bms has blocked any incoming current - shown as 0A
The charger is keeping the system voltage at 14.2v
the battery internal voltage is dropping as the cell balancing continues.
the 12v system at this point is being powered from the dc-dc charger - around 3A, its not shown on the shunt or the battery as its not bing sourses from the battery, but a clamp meter shows the 3A coming from the 20A Renogy charger.
enigine switched off - test end.
more testing soon..
FYI - the Victron shunt was set with the Lifepo4 settings above.
Last edited:
G8gs
T5.1
Hi, completely new to this forum,, ( Hi All ) and simply because i too have bought this Battery ( Poweroad low temp ). Literally been head scratching and worrying if this would fit in my van seat base ( T5.1 ),,, your first pic here gives me hope!!! but i do have a swivel base ......
I've purchased a AMS12-12-30 as my B2B. Has anyone else have same setup...( im a complete noob and learning as i go )
TIA
The battery has been in the van a while now and been working like a beast.
my only personal issue is with the SLEEP feature - that cuts the power off after 24hrs with no use
and . .
The BMS NOT logging draws below <1.0A
Both of these are only niggles for for me - and according to Poweroad are actually by design.
i reached out to them again . . . this was the reply.
++++++++++++
Good Day Dellmassive,
I had a talk with engineer face to face today, Regarding the issue you mentioned.
1. SLEEP feature is making battery not good for install in the camper as it keeps shutting off power and resetting all the battery monitoring kit we have.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China
Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com
Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com
Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com
++++++++++++
so thats the final answer . . . . . .
The SLEEP is here to stay. . . i can deal with that. it just means that the VictronSmart Shunt will always have its SOC% reset as NULL.
and that the BM2 will always have no data when the battery is sleeping.
my only personal issue is with the SLEEP feature - that cuts the power off after 24hrs with no use
and . .
The BMS NOT logging draws below <1.0A
Both of these are only niggles for for me - and according to Poweroad are actually by design.
i reached out to them again . . . this was the reply.
++++++++++++
Good Day Dellmassive,
I had a talk with engineer face to face today, Regarding the issue you mentioned.
1. SLEEP feature is making battery not good for install in the camper as it keeps shutting off power and resetting all the battery monitoring kit we have.
- The aim of SLEEP is for reduce the energy consumption, to prolong the usage time.
- For leisure application, like motorhome,electric boat, most of time is in idle, so the SLEEP is a better option;
- In SLEEP, the battery is turned off, so there is no data on your monitoring kit.
- The new software will be released very soon, and it can fix the CELL OVER VOLTAGE on the App, meanwhile, red alarm on battery will not flashing.
- PRLC-100 is designed for driving big power device, so the BMS is built with 150A continuous output current and 350A pulse, which is superior than most competitors,including Renogy + Valence you mentioned.
- For the applications that require 1A output current, like powered bulbs, cellphone,etc, the better choice is our PRLR-100 model with the lower price and small current, which can detect the current below 1A, and with 100A continuous and 200A pulse.
- It is because these two models has no SLEEP, you can compare it with our PRLR-100 LINC BASE
- No
- It will be a new model if BMS report<1A, not only to modify the software, but also change the hardware of battery.
- Therefore, from my perspective, recommend our PRLC-100 to your customers who need to drive big power device, for those clients who need the current below 1A, PRLR-100 is priority
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China
Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com
Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com
Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com
++++++++++++
so thats the final answer . . . . . .
The SLEEP is here to stay. . . i can deal with that. it just means that the VictronSmart Shunt will always have its SOC% reset as NULL.
and that the BM2 will always have no data when the battery is sleeping.
They referred to the 100A PRLR-100 - so i asked if they done a LOW TEMP version.
++++
Good day and thank you for quick reply
Can you advise if,
PRLC-100 is low temp with built in charge heater??? For sub zero charging?
We need low temp charging for camper van in UK.
Many thanks
++++
reply:
Hi ,
There are two models for LINC INFI, PRLC-100 without low temp charging fuction; PRLC-100LT(H) has low temp charging.
PRLC-100LT is fitted with Temperature Heating Elements, so it allow low temp charging for camper van even the temp below -20 degree C.
When BMS detects the battery temp below 0C, the heating function will be actived. Once the battery temp reaches +5C, the charging starts immediately and once the temp rises to +10C, the heating element stops and continues with charging.
During the heating process, there are around 8 amps current for heating elements.
Regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China
Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com
Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com
Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com
++++
Good day and thank you for quick reply
Can you advise if,
PRLC-100 is low temp with built in charge heater??? For sub zero charging?
We need low temp charging for camper van in UK.
Many thanks
++++
reply:
Hi ,
There are two models for LINC INFI, PRLC-100 without low temp charging fuction; PRLC-100LT(H) has low temp charging.
PRLC-100LT is fitted with Temperature Heating Elements, so it allow low temp charging for camper van even the temp below -20 degree C.
When BMS detects the battery temp below 0C, the heating function will be actived. Once the battery temp reaches +5C, the charging starts immediately and once the temp rises to +10C, the heating element stops and continues with charging.
During the heating process, there are around 8 amps current for heating elements.
Regards,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POWEROAD (XIAMEN) RENEWABLE ENERGY TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
7/F Haiyun Building, No. 16, Haishan Road, Xiamen 361013, Fujian, China
Lithium-ion Battery: www.poweroad.com
Energy Storage System: www.poweroad-ess.com
Advanced Lead-acid Battery: www.yucell.com
G8gs
T5.1
is that a no then lol… appears i’ve purchased the wrong battery then for what i want …. hmph
G8gs
T5.1
Sorry..I’ve bought a PRLC-100 low temp, with intentions of using it as a leisure battery.
my diesal heater says it draws 0.9ah once it’s up and running ( i’ve still to install everything)…
so if i’m reading, understanding this thread correctly,, after an hour it’s gonna cut off regardless as BMS won’t recognise this as enough of a load
The SLEEP feature kicks in if there is is no charge or discharge above 1.0A for 24hrs.
The battery is perfect as a LB.. and will be fine in your van.
Did we ever get to the bottom of whether the inability to recognise current <1A messes up the SOC reading itself though? i.e. if the diesel heater (or anything else) pulls 0.9A for 10 hours, does the internal SOC measure 9Ah down or not?
G8gs
T5.1
thanks..
that may be case as ill not have solar for a while, but my intention was to utilise the 7day program for my heater through winter as i’m away from van for few days and likes idea of it self governing/coming on.
it’s no great show stopper but just little disappointed.
from my testing when the Battery is fitted in the van . . there will always be a point over a 24hrs period that will blip the current draw/charge over 1A.
this just resets the 24hr timer.
so as long as something/anything either charge source or load blips above the 1A - the 24hrs sleep timer resets.
and even then if the battery IS SLEEPing, as soon as you switch anything on (above 1A draw) it starts back up.
as a LB these batterys work great . .
my only niggle was that the SLEEP resets my OCD monitoring setup . . . . but I've learned to live with it and now use the battery BMS for the SOC reading.
i still use the Vic Smart Shunt to monitor current flow in / out
and still use the BM2 for voltage logging.
+++++++++
FYI - here is this morning monitoring data . .
This is battery BMS showing 100% SOC.
this is BM2 voltage logger . . (engine now running)
and the Vic Orion 12/12/30
i dont have screen shots of the Vic Smart shunt . . from this morning.
but it was showing "NUL" SOC yesterday - as the previous SLEEP had reset the values.
but then auto sync`d to 100% after a drive with the Orion DC-DC.
but i do have a screen shot from NOW . . . which shows SOC at 100% after the drive home and VIC SS auto - sync`d to 100% SOC.
im not 100% sure . . ill have to test that.
it seems that the 100ah battery is actually delivering about 120ah capacity atm - as its new.
so the battery BMS is showing 100% SOC - while still accepting a 20ah XTRA charge.
so the numbers are a bit skewed . . . from the off.
That's a good thing as the are down rating the 100ah SOC and Poweroad have confirmed that.
so even after 4k 80% DOD cycles the battery's will still achieve good AH.
but because of this the Vic SS and BMS reading are always different.
ill try to do a test from a full top balance. . . . then run a <1A load for a while and see what happens . . . . ?
test results so far . . . the following morning.
14hrs in . . . . electronic load is showing 26.25ah @ 5v drawn.
front poanel shows 13.0v.
battery BMS shows 100% SOC and 0.0A being drawn and STANDBY status . . .
Vic SH shows 89% SOC and 12.1ah @ 12v drawn. (so roughly shows the same as EL when corrected 12v vs 5v / ah )
this is the Vic SH battery setting page . . . 100ah battery with 99% charge efficiancy.
BM2 plot to follow.
+
+
ill leave the test running to see what happens . . . .
++++
edit:
24hrs mark . .
EL shows 43Ah drawn.
battery BMS shows SOC @ 100% still . .
+++
Vic SS shows 82% SOC . . . and still metering the 0.8A load draw.
+++
TBC
14hrs in . . . . electronic load is showing 26.25ah @ 5v drawn.
front poanel shows 13.0v.
battery BMS shows 100% SOC and 0.0A being drawn and STANDBY status . . .
Vic SH shows 89% SOC and 12.1ah @ 12v drawn. (so roughly shows the same as EL when corrected 12v vs 5v / ah )
this is the Vic SH battery setting page . . . 100ah battery with 99% charge efficiancy.
BM2 plot to follow.
+
+
ill leave the test running to see what happens . . . .
++++
edit:
24hrs mark . .
EL shows 43Ah drawn.
battery BMS shows SOC @ 100% still . .
+++
Vic SS shows 82% SOC . . . and still metering the 0.8A load draw.
+++
TBC
Last edited:
Hmmm, interesting. Initial indications are that the SOC computation just isn’t aware of loads <1A then. Not a complete killer, but pretty annoying if part of what you’re paying for is meant to be the benefit of a built-in reliable SOC estimate.
Yes.. but in Poweroads defence..
They say that this is a big battery for big loads.. they have a 150A constant discharge with a 1200A max. . . . (Which is above most on the market)
So the BMS hardware is set for 1-1200A.
And they are expecting a >1A tickover load in a RV or other.... Ie just having a 1000w inverter on standby will draw more than the 1A.
So I get what they are saying.
They have offered the other battery that is designed for the next bracket down ..... And will monitor 0.0A and up, plus they do a low temp version also..... But it has a 100A discharge rate.... Which incidentally is the same as the Renogy and other similar battery's.
.
Is it's catch 22....
You cant use the battery BMS to measure sub 1A parasitic loads. . . . . So to get around that you can use a Vic SS.... BUT.
The Vic SS will reset it's SOC measure ment if the battery goes to SLEEP. (If no load/charge above 1A for 24hrs.)
None of the above is a deal breaker..... They are amazing batterys.
I'm just OCD about monitoring etc... It seems that the fix would be to have the option to Disable SLEEP.... but Poweroad have said that is not possible.
So I'm thinking of an outside_the_box fix....... Some way of setting a timer to blip a 1.5A load across the battery every 24hrs?
That should reset the 24hr sleep timer to stop the battery going to sleep.... Then we can use the Vic SS to accurately meeter out the SOC as it won't be reset by the battery sleep timer.
Any1 got any ideas on that?
.
Small 12v digital timer circuit with a switched 12v output... That powers a 1.5A load, maybe a power resistor. That switches on every 12hrs for 30sec?
That might work.
I did notice before that the BM2 seemed to keep the battery awake.... But further testing showed that it was because the BM2 app was running in the background. . . . And with the phone going in and our of range of the BM2 it was polling to reach the phone... As the BM2 has an extremely low power draw.... NOT enough to keep the battery out of sleep.
Last edited:
mid test results added to post above . .
current test results.
49 hours in . . . drawing 0.8A from the battery.
88ah @ 5v
battery BMS shows battery still at 100% SOC.
with no draw and standby status.
+++
Vic SS shows battery at 63% SOC with the 0.8A load draw.
thats 41ah @ 12v
....
interestingly the battery hasnt gone to SLEEP yet . . .
i think the 800mA draw is under the 1.0A sleep point . .
but with the BM2 transmitting data to the phone we must be just be resetting the SLEEP timer.
800mA + 200mA ? - thats most likley whats happening.
+++
BM2 readout . . . . shows battery online for the 49hrs duration.
.....
to complete the test ill fully charge the battery back up to full and see how many ah it takes. . .
TBC . . .
current test results.
49 hours in . . . drawing 0.8A from the battery.
88ah @ 5v
battery BMS shows battery still at 100% SOC.
with no draw and standby status.
+++
Vic SS shows battery at 63% SOC with the 0.8A load draw.
thats 41ah @ 12v
....
interestingly the battery hasnt gone to SLEEP yet . . .
i think the 800mA draw is under the 1.0A sleep point . .
but with the BM2 transmitting data to the phone we must be just be resetting the SLEEP timer.
800mA + 200mA ? - thats most likley whats happening.
+++
BM2 readout . . . . shows battery online for the 49hrs duration.
.....
to complete the test ill fully charge the battery back up to full and see how many ah it takes. . .
TBC . . .
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