How would it keep your diesel heater running longer? Is your heater sensitive to voltage drop so it needs the flat voltage over discharge profile of lithium?
Low temperature lithium battery
- Thread starter DEH
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- lithium battery
How would it keep your diesel heater running longer? Is your heater sensitive to voltage drop so it needs the flat voltage over discharge profile of lithium?
Yes it is. The current 170ah setup I have is fine for about 8-10 hours but the battery percentage drops quickly after that. Once it is below 90% the initial draw pulls the voltage down to below 11.5v and the eberspacher wont play at that point. I did the NC500 in September and on one site there was a qualified Ebesrspacher service guy. He explained a lot too me about how to use it and its fail parameters.
In December in Switzerland it was -10 outside, the heater was running for 6 hours max and then failed. At about 5c to -4c seems to be good. I eventually jury rigged a hook up from the chalet to the van.
Oh wow, I didn't know diesel heaters were so heavy in terms of load. By "below 90%" though, do you mean 90% charge or discharge, i.e. at that point do you have 90% left or 10% left?
Its not really heavy when running and up to speed. The initial kick when starting takes about 150w for about 1 minute (13.8v down to 12.4v) , stays at about 100w for 2 minutes whilst it get up to speed and then it runs great at about 15w-20w when heater is running. Switch off draws 120w whilst it burns off the excess diesel (I think thats why). In 5 days 6 nights full 24 hr running on a hookup at 6c to -15c it used under a 1/5th of a tank. If the van thermostat reaches temperature it'll wind down and then kick it off again but at a lower wattage cos the pre heating is done (i think)
So you can see why a Lithium is the answer for me. The ability for it to supply the power with a flat voltage from the lithium along with my 110w solar panel should see a mahoosive difference.
So you can see why a Lithium is the answer for me. The ability for it to supply the power with a flat voltage from the lithium along with my 110w solar panel should see a mahoosive difference.
Ah, I see, genuine reasons to 'need' lithium seem rather rare but this definitely sounds like a legitimate reason! I just fired up my diesel heater (webasto but probably similar) and it does draw about 100w on startup which is enough to cause nearly 0.5v of voltage sag on my 75Ah AGM so I can see that once you lose some charge that voltage sag would become problematic for the heater. I guess in theory some kind of voltage regulator would do the job, but after a quick look I couldn't see any obvious candidates, most of the ones I could see capped out at 10A, which isn't enough.
Hi Mick, yes that’s right Alpha batteries are importing them and the warranty (5 years as I understand) is with them through Poweroad. I have been meaning to follow up with the thread but work/ life has got in the way.
In answer to your question yes they do work in low temperatures down to -20, although I have only been able to test them down to -2, like you I wanted them for skiing/mountaineering. The other week I got to test it as the battery temp was around -2 and I was heading to work early. Managed to keep at eye on the Bluetooth from the battery and they did not start charging till they hit around +5.
I have the redarc bcdc 50amp charger and it puts 50amps in when charging which had the battery back up to full charge unbelievably quick.
I also have a Victron smart 30amp battery charger for when on hook up/home charging. When I tested the battery when it was 1c the charger showed that it was charging the battery at around 8amp to heat the battery up then starting charging when it hit 5c. I believe this is the same with the Redarc bcdc charger to but have found it a bit challenging to try driving and use the multi meter to check this at the same time.
I also have an eberspacher heater and have tested it over night with the 1 x poweroad battery. The heater used round 5% of the battery, running all night.
I originally looked at getting the relion battery but couldn’t find any for sale. After speaking to Relion UK they mentioned the lead time for delivery was April and this was back in December. The rellion were more expensive and didn’t have the heating like the Poweroad.
I then saw that the low temp Poweroad fitted what I needed, took the plunge so ordered 2. When they arrived 1 of the batteries had a fault with temp gauge, it kept fluctuating where the other battery was constant. It was easy to spot thanks to the Bluetooth. Spoke to John at Alpha Batteries and he contacted Poweroad, within a day had a response from poweroad and emails from John, did a few checks and then returned the battery which they replaced no issues, although I did have to wait for it to arrive they did provide me with another battery till mine arrived.
When I originally chatted to Alpha batteries about the low temp battery I remember them saying they are really popular am selling out quickly, even before they landed in stock. After having a search I haven’t found another lithium low temp battery anywhere near a similar price to the Poweroad.
I have been really impressed with Alpha batteries and John has been great to deal with, really first class service. I am just a customer so no link to them.
As a few other now have the batteries I’m sure that there will be lots more info to follow as I have only had limited experience so far but have been more than happy with the batteries so far.
I really feel your pain on delivery times, very frustrating on waiting for stuff to arrive and come into stock (not just the batteries), have been in the process of converting my T6 and have been amazed how hard it is to get certain items.
Hopfully this helps.
.
In answer to your question yes they do work in low temperatures down to -20, although I have only been able to test them down to -2, like you I wanted them for skiing/mountaineering. The other week I got to test it as the battery temp was around -2 and I was heading to work early. Managed to keep at eye on the Bluetooth from the battery and they did not start charging till they hit around +5.
I have the redarc bcdc 50amp charger and it puts 50amps in when charging which had the battery back up to full charge unbelievably quick.
I also have a Victron smart 30amp battery charger for when on hook up/home charging. When I tested the battery when it was 1c the charger showed that it was charging the battery at around 8amp to heat the battery up then starting charging when it hit 5c. I believe this is the same with the Redarc bcdc charger to but have found it a bit challenging to try driving and use the multi meter to check this at the same time.
I also have an eberspacher heater and have tested it over night with the 1 x poweroad battery. The heater used round 5% of the battery, running all night.
I originally looked at getting the relion battery but couldn’t find any for sale. After speaking to Relion UK they mentioned the lead time for delivery was April and this was back in December. The rellion were more expensive and didn’t have the heating like the Poweroad.
I then saw that the low temp Poweroad fitted what I needed, took the plunge so ordered 2. When they arrived 1 of the batteries had a fault with temp gauge, it kept fluctuating where the other battery was constant. It was easy to spot thanks to the Bluetooth. Spoke to John at Alpha Batteries and he contacted Poweroad, within a day had a response from poweroad and emails from John, did a few checks and then returned the battery which they replaced no issues, although I did have to wait for it to arrive they did provide me with another battery till mine arrived.
When I originally chatted to Alpha batteries about the low temp battery I remember them saying they are really popular am selling out quickly, even before they landed in stock. After having a search I haven’t found another lithium low temp battery anywhere near a similar price to the Poweroad.
I have been really impressed with Alpha batteries and John has been great to deal with, really first class service. I am just a customer so no link to them.
As a few other now have the batteries I’m sure that there will be lots more info to follow as I have only had limited experience so far but have been more than happy with the batteries so far.
I really feel your pain on delivery times, very frustrating on waiting for stuff to arrive and come into stock (not just the batteries), have been in the process of converting my T6 and have been amazed how hard it is to get certain items.
Hopfully this helps.
.
I see someone has popped the lid off of one of the Poweroad Linc Infinity SubZero LiFePO4 Batteries over here: Lithium Porn
he seems quite enamoured with it. I'm so looking forward to getting full use out of a battery below 85% of SOC.
@travelvolts has ordered mine from Alpha who told me they should be in this week. However looking at some of the threads their ability to forecast is not that great.. But I'm hoping it arrives in time for the Bala trip and Martyn has the time to fit it.
It'll all be connected to my current AbleMail B2B charger which'll be SW re configured, victron solar and BMV setup and adding a Victron 350w Inverter for my e Bike.
Testing has kind of stalled ATM with me . . . . (Global reboot after Covid has got be a bit busy with work)
have a look back here to see where im up to : https://www.t6forum.com/threads/low-temperature-lithium-battery.24971/post-374616
first impressions are good,
battery is VERY light compared to others (i think its the pouch cells)
BMS APP looks good.
waiting to do capacity test.
waiting to do LVD test
waiting to do LTD test
waiting to do heater performance test (missed winter due to delivery delays!!)
edit:
How does the hi-tech heating function work on the Infinity PRLC-100-LT ‘Sub Zero’?
The process of heating and charging is automatically controlled by the BMS and the heating element embedded within the battery and takes roughly 40 minutes to change the temperature from -20°C to +5°C. Once the battery temperature reaches +5°C the charging starts immediately and once the temperature rises to +10°C the heating element stops and continues with the charging.
Last edited:
FWIW . . . it looks like our two batteries were drop shipped from dcbattery.tech (Although we purchased them from Alpha - who are great btw)
DC Battery Tech Ltd have some interesting info on there www . . . . .
++++
Introducing the Poweroad Infinity Lithium battery and why you shouldn’t charge your Lithium batteries below 0°C?
If you have a Lithium (LiFePO4) battery, there are some crucial things to consider when charging at temperatures below
Lithium battery manufacturers often state an operational temperature range of -20°C to +55°C (this varies depending on brand and model). One of the main misconceptions with this is that it is often misconstrued as a safe temperature range for both charging and discharging, however this is not the case, as the operational temperature range is referring purely to discharging the battery only.
Charging a Lithium battery in temperatures below 0°C must be avoided unless your battery is equipped to do so ( a compensating charger), as it may potentially damage the battery and reduce its lifespan.
Why?
When attempting to charge a Lithium battery below 0°C / 32°F a chemical reaction called “Lithium Plating” occurs which is caused by the charge current forcing the lithium ions to move at a faster reaction rate than usual and accumulate on the surface of the anode.
When this chemical reaction occurs the internal resistance of the battery increases, which can have big consequences when linked in series or parallel connections. As well as this, another side effect to the chemical reaction is it reduces the rate of the chemical metabolism and causes a permanent reduction of the battery’s capacity. This will continue to reduce further each time this reaction occurs.
The Poweroad Infinity PRLC-100 LINC has a battery management system that can monitor your battery’s temperature – an invaluable tool in marine, leisure, vehicle conversions & cold weather applications. With the touch of a button you can see what the standing temperature of your battery is and therefore whether it is safe to charge.
See further features *
How does the hi-tech heating function work on the Infinity PRLC-100-LT ‘Sub Zero’?
The process of heating and charging is automatically controlled by the BMS and the heating element embedded within the battery and takes roughly 40 minutes to change the temperature from -20°C to +5°C. Once the battery temperature reaches +5°C the charging starts immediately and once the temperature rises to +10°C the heating element stops and continues with the charging.
See other benefits below **
To explain the chemistry behind lithium plating requires a quick summary of how lithium-ion batteries work.
They have an anode and cathode and electrolyte just like any other battery, but there is a twist: lithium ions actually move from the cathode to anode during charging and intercalate into it.
The gist of intercalation is that molecules or ions (lithium ions in this case) are crammed in between the molecular gaps of some of the material’s lattice.
During discharging the lithium ions leave the anode and return to the cathode and likewise intercalate into the cathode, effectively resulting in both the cathode and anode acting as sort of a ‘sponge’ for lithium ions. Once most of the lithium ions are intercalated into the cathode (meaning the battery is in a fairly discharged state), the cathode material will expand slightly due to volumetric strain (because of all the extra atoms wedged in between its lattice), but generally most of this is intercalation force is converted to internal stresses (analogous to tempered glass), so the volumetric strain is slight.
During charging, the lithium ions leave the cathode and intercalate into the graphite anode. Graphite is basically a carbon biscuit, made of a bunch of graphene layers to form an aggregate biscuit structure. This greatly reduces the graphite anode’s ability to convert the force from the intercalation into internal stresses, so the anode undergoes significantly more volumetric strain – so much so that it will actually increase in volume by 10-20%.
This must be allowed for when designing a lithium-ion cell otherwise the anode can slowly weaken or even ultimately puncture the internal membrane that separates the anode from the cathode, causing a dead short inside the cell but only once a bunch of joules have been shoved into the cell (thus expanding the anode).
Ok, but what does any of this have to do with cold temperatures?
When you charge a lithium ion cell in below freezing temperatures, most of the lithium ions fail to intercalate into the graphite anode. Instead, they plate the anode with metallic lithium, just like electroplating an anode coin with a cathode precious metal. So charging will electroplate the anode with lithium rather than recharging it. Some of the ions do intercalate into the anode, and some of the atoms in the metal plating will intercalate later over 20+ hours if the cell is allowed to rest, but most will not. That is the source of the capacity reduction, increased internal resistance, and also the danger.
This lithium plating of the anode isn’t nice and smooth and even – it forms in dendrites, little sharp tendrils of lithium metal growing on the anode.
As with the other failure mechanisms, which likewise are due to metallic lithium plating of the anode, these dendrites can put unexpected pressure on the separating membrane as the anode expands and forces the membrane to one day fail unexpectedly – ie a short circuit / dead cell.
Additional features about the PRLC-100 INFINITY LINC
*The POWEROAD Bluetooth LINC Battery Monitor App is free to download on Android & IOS phones and allow you to connect with your battery via Bluetooth to easily check the State of Charge (SoC), Battery status, State of Health (SoH) & individual cell voltages. You can also, through the setting menu, name each individual battery, which is extremely helpful when using multiple batteries within your machinery or power bank.
You can check any battery alerts for things such as the battery temperature, the number of cycles performed and the event record, cell over/under voltage protection, over/under charge protection, over/under temperature charging protection, over-temperature discharging, overcurrent protection, short circuit protection and can also be disconnected and reconnected all through the app.
** Other Benefits of the PRLC-100 INFINITY LINC
+++
DC Battery Tech Ltd have some interesting info on there www . . . . .
++++
Introducing the Poweroad Infinity Lithium battery and why you shouldn’t charge your Lithium batteries below 0°C?
If you have a Lithium (LiFePO4) battery, there are some crucial things to consider when charging at temperatures below
Lithium battery manufacturers often state an operational temperature range of -20°C to +55°C (this varies depending on brand and model). One of the main misconceptions with this is that it is often misconstrued as a safe temperature range for both charging and discharging, however this is not the case, as the operational temperature range is referring purely to discharging the battery only.
Charging a Lithium battery in temperatures below 0°C must be avoided unless your battery is equipped to do so ( a compensating charger), as it may potentially damage the battery and reduce its lifespan.
Why?
When attempting to charge a Lithium battery below 0°C / 32°F a chemical reaction called “Lithium Plating” occurs which is caused by the charge current forcing the lithium ions to move at a faster reaction rate than usual and accumulate on the surface of the anode.
When this chemical reaction occurs the internal resistance of the battery increases, which can have big consequences when linked in series or parallel connections. As well as this, another side effect to the chemical reaction is it reduces the rate of the chemical metabolism and causes a permanent reduction of the battery’s capacity. This will continue to reduce further each time this reaction occurs.
The Poweroad Infinity PRLC-100 LINC has a battery management system that can monitor your battery’s temperature – an invaluable tool in marine, leisure, vehicle conversions & cold weather applications. With the touch of a button you can see what the standing temperature of your battery is and therefore whether it is safe to charge.
See further features *
How does the hi-tech heating function work on the Infinity PRLC-100-LT ‘Sub Zero’?
The process of heating and charging is automatically controlled by the BMS and the heating element embedded within the battery and takes roughly 40 minutes to change the temperature from -20°C to +5°C. Once the battery temperature reaches +5°C the charging starts immediately and once the temperature rises to +10°C the heating element stops and continues with the charging.
See other benefits below **
To explain the chemistry behind lithium plating requires a quick summary of how lithium-ion batteries work.
They have an anode and cathode and electrolyte just like any other battery, but there is a twist: lithium ions actually move from the cathode to anode during charging and intercalate into it.
The gist of intercalation is that molecules or ions (lithium ions in this case) are crammed in between the molecular gaps of some of the material’s lattice.
During discharging the lithium ions leave the anode and return to the cathode and likewise intercalate into the cathode, effectively resulting in both the cathode and anode acting as sort of a ‘sponge’ for lithium ions. Once most of the lithium ions are intercalated into the cathode (meaning the battery is in a fairly discharged state), the cathode material will expand slightly due to volumetric strain (because of all the extra atoms wedged in between its lattice), but generally most of this is intercalation force is converted to internal stresses (analogous to tempered glass), so the volumetric strain is slight.
During charging, the lithium ions leave the cathode and intercalate into the graphite anode. Graphite is basically a carbon biscuit, made of a bunch of graphene layers to form an aggregate biscuit structure. This greatly reduces the graphite anode’s ability to convert the force from the intercalation into internal stresses, so the anode undergoes significantly more volumetric strain – so much so that it will actually increase in volume by 10-20%.
This must be allowed for when designing a lithium-ion cell otherwise the anode can slowly weaken or even ultimately puncture the internal membrane that separates the anode from the cathode, causing a dead short inside the cell but only once a bunch of joules have been shoved into the cell (thus expanding the anode).
Ok, but what does any of this have to do with cold temperatures?
When you charge a lithium ion cell in below freezing temperatures, most of the lithium ions fail to intercalate into the graphite anode. Instead, they plate the anode with metallic lithium, just like electroplating an anode coin with a cathode precious metal. So charging will electroplate the anode with lithium rather than recharging it. Some of the ions do intercalate into the anode, and some of the atoms in the metal plating will intercalate later over 20+ hours if the cell is allowed to rest, but most will not. That is the source of the capacity reduction, increased internal resistance, and also the danger.
This lithium plating of the anode isn’t nice and smooth and even – it forms in dendrites, little sharp tendrils of lithium metal growing on the anode.
As with the other failure mechanisms, which likewise are due to metallic lithium plating of the anode, these dendrites can put unexpected pressure on the separating membrane as the anode expands and forces the membrane to one day fail unexpectedly – ie a short circuit / dead cell.
Additional features about the PRLC-100 INFINITY LINC
*The POWEROAD Bluetooth LINC Battery Monitor App is free to download on Android & IOS phones and allow you to connect with your battery via Bluetooth to easily check the State of Charge (SoC), Battery status, State of Health (SoH) & individual cell voltages. You can also, through the setting menu, name each individual battery, which is extremely helpful when using multiple batteries within your machinery or power bank.
You can check any battery alerts for things such as the battery temperature, the number of cycles performed and the event record, cell over/under voltage protection, over/under charge protection, over/under temperature charging protection, over-temperature discharging, overcurrent protection, short circuit protection and can also be disconnected and reconnected all through the app.
** Other Benefits of the PRLC-100 INFINITY LINC
- Can be charged at temperature down to -20°C for cold weather use (sub Zero version)
- Can be linked in series to achieve 12V, 24v, 36v & 48V arrays
- 150Amp high output current for driving high-powered devices
- 350Amp Peak Discharge for current surges, such as Inverters, electric motors, winches, etc
- Detachable upper cover and replaceable BMS, designed specifically to reduce the cost of maintenance
- Embedded BMS which can prolong the battery life and guarantee batteries safety
- Sleep mode for reducing energy consumption and prolonging the shelf life
- Dual terminal design for easier installation and better heat dissipation
- IP54 protection level for ensuring battery remains unaffected by water under specified conditions
- Compact size ensures easy installation even in limited space
+++
Had my POWEROAD sub zero fitted last Thursday and spent a weekend using it at Bala. Bloody impressed.
the main issue I had was getting my Victron BMV 712 to show the correct settings SOC etc. I’ve noW synced at 100% and then changed to the following settings from Victron YouTube vids
Peukert 1.05, Charge efficiency 99%, discharge floor 20%. Tail current to 4%. I’ll bring it up to 100% and synchronise again now I have changed the settings.
What I need to know but can’t find is the Poweroad 12v 100ah float & absorption voltages. I have to set the solar to 0.3v below absorption. Anyone have it handy?
The VictronConnect Solar MPPT has a LifePo04 setting which I moved to. That seems to be ok.
I discharged the battery to 12% with my eBike battery drawing 15amps . Alarms going off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I switched on the EHU Charger (Volta 3 stage 18amp) and it gave me best case 1.5a charge current so with the fridge running I only managed to get it back to 66% over 2 days. Soon as I set off back the Ablemail DC-DC Gave me 36a up to SOC 100% and then the cell protection kicked In.
I need to decide what to replace the Volta with. Any suggestions. I’ve asked for a VictronConnect price fitted.
the main issue I had was getting my Victron BMV 712 to show the correct settings SOC etc. I’ve noW synced at 100% and then changed to the following settings from Victron YouTube vids
Peukert 1.05, Charge efficiency 99%, discharge floor 20%. Tail current to 4%. I’ll bring it up to 100% and synchronise again now I have changed the settings.
What I need to know but can’t find is the Poweroad 12v 100ah float & absorption voltages. I have to set the solar to 0.3v below absorption. Anyone have it handy?
The VictronConnect Solar MPPT has a LifePo04 setting which I moved to. That seems to be ok.
I discharged the battery to 12% with my eBike battery drawing 15amps . Alarms going off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I switched on the EHU Charger (Volta 3 stage 18amp) and it gave me best case 1.5a charge current so with the fridge running I only managed to get it back to 66% over 2 days. Soon as I set off back the Ablemail DC-DC Gave me 36a up to SOC 100% and then the cell protection kicked In.
I need to decide what to replace the Volta with. Any suggestions. I’ve asked for a VictronConnect price fitted.
@Mick
charge voltage @ 14.4v (No Absorption or float on Lithium's - just bulk till full)
www.alpha-batteries.co.uk
.
charge voltage @ 14.4v (No Absorption or float on Lithium's - just bulk till full)
12V 100AH POWEROAD INFINITY SUBZERO LOW TEMPERATURE LITHIUM LIFEPO4 BATTERY WITH BLUETOOTH MONITORING (N/A) - Alpha Batteries
Poweroad - Time to go Lithium. Subzero version for extreme cold with charging capability up to -20c
www.alpha-batteries.co.uk
.
Thanks @Dellmassive
The sync yesterday on the BMV 712 when it was 100% seems to work.
I’ll take it to 100% today and tonight when there is no current in or out I’ll re-sync.
The sleep button on the battery does that also switch off the charging. I don’t want the battery sat at 100% with the solar still keeping it topped off when I’m not using it.
The sync yesterday on the BMV 712 when it was 100% seems to work.
I’ll take it to 100% today and tonight when there is no current in or out I’ll re-sync.
The sleep button on the battery does that also switch off the charging. I don’t want the battery sat at 100% with the solar still keeping it topped off when I’m not using it.
I think the Volta is knackered.
Victron blue smart charger..
Same app as your bmv etc.
Same app as your bmv etc.
POWEROAD Infinity PRLC-100-LT ‘Sub Zero’ - SLEEP MODE
more testing regarding sleep mode . . .
@Mick asked me "does the POWEROAD battery still charge in sleep mode?"
well lest find out . . . . . . .
heres the setup.
were using the ECOFLOW RIVER PRO : https://www.t6forum.com/threads/solar-generators-how-i-done-it.27616/post-384185
to provide mobile 240v for the VICTRON BSC 15A battery charger.
the battery shows about 80% full.
when we start the charger up we can see 252w being pulled from ECOFLOW 240v side for the Victron BSC charger to generate the 15A of charge current into the POWEROAD battery . .
we can see this on the battery APP and the inline power meter . . 15A going into the battery.
so the battery is charging up at the full rate of the charger . . . 15A.
at this point i tried pressing the SLEEP mode button . . . . nothing changed.
so i disconnected the battery APP & BT - again no change.
we can sere the APP has disconnected and BT light has gone out, but the battery's is still drawing the full 15A from the charger.
the SLEEP mode button still didn't do anything while the charge source was supplying power..
it was ONLY when the charge source was removed that i was able to get the battery into SLEEP mode . .
once the battery was in SLEEP mode, i reconnected the charger . . Nothing changed. (edit - on this occasion)
so the battery was now ignoring the charge source and defiantly sleeping . . and NOT charging, even though the charger was connected.
Now for the interesting part . . (edit - on this occasion)
at this time i connected the battery to the 12v input of the ECOFLOW, it will take 12v in @ 8.5A to charge its self . . . .
as soon as i made the connection the battery it jumped out of SLEEP mode and come back to life without me touching the SLEEP button.
+++
we can see the cyclic power flow . . .
you can see the ECOFLOW delivering 252w into the 240v mains BSC charger, (green circle)
that is charging the POWEROAD battery at 13.5v 15A (yellow circle)
that is powering the ECOFLOW 12v @ 8.5A 101w input charge circuit . . (RED circle)
round and round and round and round we go . . . . . . . . . . .
.
so here we are back to the start again . . . . .
with the battery powered up and receiving a charge again from the 240v BSC Victron . . .
BUT . . . . .
on the second test around, things changed . . . !!!
test #2
again it wouldnt sleep unless the charge source was removed. 15A in.
it would let me sleep when it was delivering 8.5A out,
reconnecting the 8.5A out wouldn't bring it out of sleep
but reconecting the 15A charger DID bring it out of sleep.
HMM . . .
test #3
it wouldnt sleep unless the charge source was removed. 15A in.
it would let me sleep when it was delivering 8.5A out,
reconnecting the 8.5A out wouldn't bring it out of sleep
reconecting the 15A charger didnt bring it out of sleep.
test #4
Hold on . . . . som ething is going on here,
and I've got an idea what happening.
+++
Lab PSU out for testing.
here we can see that feeding the battery while sleeping with an adjustable voltage . . .
at this point its 13.61v - battery sleeping.
10mins and 20x samples later we have life . . . .
at 14.22v the battery BMS switched the battery on and comes out of sleep mode.
..
this can be repeated again by using the Victron BSC in power supply mode . . .
the charger delivering 14.02v - no change, battery sleeping.
BUT . . .
as soon as you hit 14.22v
the battery comes to life....
++++
ok conclusion time. (reverse engineering the BMS Firmware programming)
testing shows that . . .
battery wont sleep unless the charging source removed. (untested Amp threshold/trigger point possibly 1amp and below tbc)
battery will let you SLEEP it when its delivering power.
reconnecting a charger source of above 14.22v will bring it out of sleep.
++++
So to answer @Mick question.
No the battery will not charge when its sleeping, until the charge source voltage rises above 14.22v.
at which point the BMS will wake up the battery and start charging. . . . untill its 100% full
++++
more testing regarding sleep mode . . .
@Mick asked me "does the POWEROAD battery still charge in sleep mode?"
well lest find out . . . . . . .
heres the setup.
were using the ECOFLOW RIVER PRO : https://www.t6forum.com/threads/solar-generators-how-i-done-it.27616/post-384185
to provide mobile 240v for the VICTRON BSC 15A battery charger.
the battery shows about 80% full.
when we start the charger up we can see 252w being pulled from ECOFLOW 240v side for the Victron BSC charger to generate the 15A of charge current into the POWEROAD battery . .
we can see this on the battery APP and the inline power meter . . 15A going into the battery.
so the battery is charging up at the full rate of the charger . . . 15A.
at this point i tried pressing the SLEEP mode button . . . . nothing changed.
so i disconnected the battery APP & BT - again no change.
we can sere the APP has disconnected and BT light has gone out, but the battery's is still drawing the full 15A from the charger.
the SLEEP mode button still didn't do anything while the charge source was supplying power..
it was ONLY when the charge source was removed that i was able to get the battery into SLEEP mode . .
once the battery was in SLEEP mode, i reconnected the charger . . Nothing changed. (edit - on this occasion)
so the battery was now ignoring the charge source and defiantly sleeping . . and NOT charging, even though the charger was connected.
Now for the interesting part . . (edit - on this occasion)
at this time i connected the battery to the 12v input of the ECOFLOW, it will take 12v in @ 8.5A to charge its self . . . .
as soon as i made the connection the battery it jumped out of SLEEP mode and come back to life without me touching the SLEEP button.
+++
we can see the cyclic power flow . . .
you can see the ECOFLOW delivering 252w into the 240v mains BSC charger, (green circle)
that is charging the POWEROAD battery at 13.5v 15A (yellow circle)
that is powering the ECOFLOW 12v @ 8.5A 101w input charge circuit . . (RED circle)
round and round and round and round we go . . . . . . . . . . .
.
so here we are back to the start again . . . . .
with the battery powered up and receiving a charge again from the 240v BSC Victron . . .
BUT . . . . .
on the second test around, things changed . . . !!!
test #2
again it wouldnt sleep unless the charge source was removed. 15A in.
it would let me sleep when it was delivering 8.5A out,
reconnecting the 8.5A out wouldn't bring it out of sleep
but reconecting the 15A charger DID bring it out of sleep.
HMM . . .
test #3
it wouldnt sleep unless the charge source was removed. 15A in.
it would let me sleep when it was delivering 8.5A out,
reconnecting the 8.5A out wouldn't bring it out of sleep
reconecting the 15A charger didnt bring it out of sleep.
test #4
Hold on . . . . som ething is going on here,
and I've got an idea what happening.
+++
Lab PSU out for testing.
here we can see that feeding the battery while sleeping with an adjustable voltage . . .
at this point its 13.61v - battery sleeping.
10mins and 20x samples later we have life . . . .
at 14.22v the battery BMS switched the battery on and comes out of sleep mode.
..
this can be repeated again by using the Victron BSC in power supply mode . . .
the charger delivering 14.02v - no change, battery sleeping.
BUT . . .
as soon as you hit 14.22v
the battery comes to life....
++++
ok conclusion time. (reverse engineering the BMS Firmware programming)
testing shows that . . .
battery wont sleep unless the charging source removed. (untested Amp threshold/trigger point possibly 1amp and below tbc)
battery will let you SLEEP it when its delivering power.
reconnecting a charger source of above 14.22v will bring it out of sleep.
++++
So to answer @Mick question.
No the battery will not charge when its sleeping, until the charge source voltage rises above 14.22v.
at which point the BMS will wake up the battery and start charging. . . . untill its 100% full
++++
POWEROAD Infinity PRLC-100-LT ‘Sub Zero’ - TOP Charging.
Setting the Victron BSC to 14.4v BULK charge, as per the above spec sheet . . lets see what happens.
The Victron BSC is set to custom mode at a 14.4v BULK limit set. (and 15A max)
..
we can see the current here on the battery APP, 14.98A, and the voltage of the battery, 13.47v . . that will gradually rise to the 14.4v cutoff point.
ETA from here is shows @ 15A to be 57mins . .
..
TBC . . . . . .
interestingly the APP shows 100% . . . . but the battery is still taking the full 15A.
.
the charger carried on . . .
...
untill the current drawn started dropping . . .
.
finally down to 0A and showing 100% ( with the charger set to 14.4v )
.
checking the battery APP logs it flagged on battery cell over voltage.. roughly at the 100% point.
..
Setting the Victron BSC to 14.4v BULK charge, as per the above spec sheet . . lets see what happens.
The Victron BSC is set to custom mode at a 14.4v BULK limit set. (and 15A max)
..
we can see the current here on the battery APP, 14.98A, and the voltage of the battery, 13.47v . . that will gradually rise to the 14.4v cutoff point.
ETA from here is shows @ 15A to be 57mins . .
..
TBC . . . . . .
interestingly the APP shows 100% . . . . but the battery is still taking the full 15A.
.
the charger carried on . . .
...
untill the current drawn started dropping . . .
.
finally down to 0A and showing 100% ( with the charger set to 14.4v )
.
checking the battery APP logs it flagged on battery cell over voltage.. roughly at the 100% point.
..
Last edited:
Nice one @Dellmassive. The MPPT controller on my solar has a switch off charge capability but that comes with a warning that it should only be done during maintenance.
I was advised by a guy who seems to know his Victron that I should turn my bulk voltage down to 14.2 and use the 'standard' LifePo4 setting on the MPPT in expert mode. You appear to have come to a similar conclusion but it should be below 14.2v - I think.
My EHU charger is capable of charging at 7.5v so if I turn it down to that I should good to go in sleep mode but it is wired to a consumer unit protection switch which I can just turn off. I'll give it all a go.
The whole reasoning behind my questioning it was that, as the owner of an EV, we are advised NEVER to keep the SOC it at 100%. 20%-80% is the optimum. Given my van is not my day car it could. in theory, sit on the drive at 100% with solar keeping it topped off which in an EV would damage the battery eventually - and therefore my LifePo4 leisure battery.
This all goes to pot of course when i drive it and shove 35a into it!
I was advised by a guy who seems to know his Victron that I should turn my bulk voltage down to 14.2 and use the 'standard' LifePo4 setting on the MPPT in expert mode. You appear to have come to a similar conclusion but it should be below 14.2v - I think.
My EHU charger is capable of charging at 7.5v so if I turn it down to that I should good to go in sleep mode but it is wired to a consumer unit protection switch which I can just turn off. I'll give it all a go.
The whole reasoning behind my questioning it was that, as the owner of an EV, we are advised NEVER to keep the SOC it at 100%. 20%-80% is the optimum. Given my van is not my day car it could. in theory, sit on the drive at 100% with solar keeping it topped off which in an EV would damage the battery eventually - and therefore my LifePo4 leisure battery.
This all goes to pot of course when i drive it and shove 35a into it!
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