Please help me - how to use camper plug sockets?

[Alexryc]

Hi all

I recently (last week) purchased a converted T6.1. I love it, without this forum though it would be much less enjoyable as it’s so complicated figuring out where everything goes etc.

When I purchased it, the guy who sold it me said all manuals were inside… and they were not. So, here I am trying to figure out how to plug my laptop etc in, when not connected up to mains on a camp site etc.

Pictures attached here show my inverter, which is behind the drivers seat. As well as my electric management device -

Basically, the first night I purchased the van… I went out and camped out off grid, all day. 24 hours ish. After that; the icon on the black square was flashing to show car battery was low (40% left) I was confused why the leisure battery wasn’t showing low. But I just packed up and went home, eventually the car symbol went away as I was driving I assumed it naturally charged.

Anyway, I tried to plug my laptop in… and it worked. For the last week… I’ve been told by a friend who said he knows a few things, the inverter behind the drivers seat needs to be turned off at all times, and you turn it on when you’re plugged into mains on a site etc. so that’s what I’ve done. However, whenever I’m using the van, lights on and I haven’t turned the engine on for a while… it then states car battery low. This makes me think it’s not using the leisure battery at all?

I turned the inverter on via the power button, as you can see in the image it shows a green light. I then tried using the plug sockets beneath the USBs on the wall (in the other picture) and they wouldn’t work. I asked the guy I purchased the van off, and he said plug into the inverter directly. And the plug sockets beneath the USBs only work when you’re on a site plugged into mains. Again, very very confused now.

I plugged into the inverter directly, and nothing. Didn’t work. My father in law thinks the leisure battery had died as it has never actually been switched on.

I basically, just need a breakdown of what to do when I’m camping “off” grid, and “on grid” sorry if I’m coming across useless - this is new to me and I feel so baffled.

Thanks so much if you read this much, you guys are so helpful.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Without some way to connect the sockets on the front of the inverter to the sockets inside the van I can't see how the van ones are going to be of any use off grid.
The van sockets may only be useable when on hook up unless there's some other wiring connections that we can't see here.
Try connecting a light to the inverter sockets and turning the inverter on (it should only be switched on when it's needed for use as the inverter will use some battery power even if nothing is plugged in and will destroy your leisure battery in short order if left swiched on for too long)
If the light works in those sockets, move it to the van sockets and try again. No light? You're going to need to find the hook up inlet and either purchase or make a suitable lead up to plug the van in to the mains at home to test the van sockets actually work.
Have you located your leisure battery within the van? Is there one? Does it have anything connected to it? Where do the wires go to? If it's a high wattage inverter, it may be connected to the van starter battery and only really be usable when the engine is running as they take a lot of current to run an inverter that big, use it too much without the engine running and you risk not being able to start the van
You should check that the inverter is a pure sine wave type as sensitive devices like laptops can be damaged by other types.(modified sine wave for example)

 

[Alexryc]

Without some way to connect the sockets on the front of the inverter to the sockets inside the van I can't see how the van ones are going to be of any use off grid.
The van sockets may only be useable when on hook up unless there's some other wiring connections that we can't see here.
Try connecting a light to the inverter sockets and turning the inverter on (it should only be switched on when it's needed for use as the inverter will use some battery power even if nothing is plugged in and will destroy your leisure battery in short order if left swiched on for too long)
If the light works in those sockets, move it to the van sockets and try again. No light? You're going to need to find the hook up inlet and either purchase or make a suitable lead up to plug the van in to the mains at home to test the van sockets actually work.
Where is your leisure battery? Does it have anything connected to it? Where do the wires go to? If it's a 3000W inverter, it may be connected to the van starter battery and only really be usable when the engine is running as they take a lot of current to run an inverter that big.
You should check that the inverter is a pure sine wave type as sensitive devices like laptops can be damaged by other types.(modified sine wave for example)

Thank you!

There’s a few questions here that I’m not sure about. The socks on the inverter itself aren’t actually working. I plugged in a phone charger, and it worked for 1 second and then went off.

My father in laws theory was, because I camped out last week in it… and I thought the batteries automatically changed to balance load (I’m unsure why I thought that) that the leisure battery is empty and it’s only working temporarily because there’s no charge - once I drive for a bit and it’s charged, it’ll then work.

there’s a fuse in the box that’s switched down, I was told when plugged into mains to turn this on… I’m assuming that tells all electrics to flow via mains?

I’m so confused

 

[Grim Reaper]

You need to get someone who can navigate van electrics to investigate and show you what the setup is, If you're not competent with 240V electrics don't mess with them until you know for sure how things work.
Was the van seller the conversion company? if so I would go back to them and get them to run through the system until you are happy you know how to operate everything, just guessing and turning things on and off may not be the best policy.
The phrase "I’ve been told by a friend who said he knows a few things, the inverter behind the drivers seat needs to be turned off at all times, and you turn it on when you’re plugged into mains on a site etc." shows that he knows nothing, inverters use 12V supply and convert that to 240V, There's no point having such a thing if it needs to be plugged into mains for it to work is there?
If the inverter sockets worked for a second, they work, it may just be the charger didn't like the supply type, again, sensitive devices can be damaged by non pure sine wave supplies.
Start the van and try again, with a simple incandescent light bulb in a lamp , if it works, it may just be that the supply of 12V to the inverter was not sufficient for it to turn on the output at the sockets.

 

[roadtripper]

I'd agree with @Grim Reaper here, get back to the converter and insist that they do a proper handover and prove that everything is in a working condition or you'll reject the van.

Even if you were experienced at this handing over a vehicle with all the equipment fitted with no details or manuals would leave you in the lurch, especially for the money you have no doubt paid.

 

[Howzat]

I think the father in law has got you covered. Start the van, run for 10 minutes, then try the inverter. If it works then it's likely it's connected to a leisure battery which is charged via a DC-DC charger. The other plugs will be hook up only.
If you switch the van off and the inverter stop working then your leisure battery may be goosed.

 

[Grim Reaper]

If it's a T6.1, and there is actually a leisure battery fitted, it is going to need a DC-DC charger to charge the leisure battery from the van electrics when the engine is running, a split charge relay just won't cut it with these modern vans, but conversion companies just want them out of the showroom where it's not their responsibility any more.

 

[Alexryc]

You need to get someone who can navigate van electrics to investigate and show you what the setup is, If you're not competent with 240V electrics don't mess with them until you know for sure how things work.
Was the van seller the conversion company? if so I would go back to them and get them to run through the system until you are happy you know how to operate everything, just guessing and turning things on and off may not be the best policy.
The phrase "I’ve been told by a friend who said he knows a few things, the inverter behind the drivers seat needs to be turned off at all times, and you turn it on when you’re plugged into mains on a site etc." shows that he knows nothing, inverters use 12V supply and convert that to 240V, There's no point having such a thing if it needs to be plugged into mains for it to work is there?
If the inverter sockets worked for a second, they work, it may just be the charger didn't like the supply type, again, sensitive devices can be damaged by non pure sine wave supplies.
Start the van and try again, with a simple incandescent light bulb in a lamp , if it works, it may just be that the supply of 12V to the inverter was not sufficient for it to turn on the output at the sockets.

You’re very helpful, I appreciate your time thank you. I’m going to go and get a proper handover. He’s 2 hours away but it’s better than me doing something silly. Yes the seller was the company that converted it!

I'd agree with @Grim Reaper here, get back to the converter and insist that they do a proper handover and prove that everything is in a working condition or you'll reject the van.

Even if you were experienced at this handing over a vehicle with all the equipment fitted with no details or manuals would leave you in the lurch, especially for the money you have no doubt paid.

Thanks sir, I’m going to do exactly that.

If it's a T6.1, and there is actually a leisure battery fitted, it is going to need a DC-DC charger to charge the leisure battery from the van electrics when the engine is running, a split charge relay just won't cut it with these modern vans, but conversion companies just want them out of the showroom where it's not their responsibility any more.

Yes Reaper it’s a 21 T6.1.

He told me it was on a “gel” battery. Can you see attachment?

But the one that says RAYNE automotive shows no signs of life

 

[Grim Reaper]

Look around the van for one of either of these devices, you really want something the size of the one on the right, not the one on the left.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Cross posting, I'm not familiar with any of that kit but the blue device at the top looks like a solar charge controller (does it have solar panels?) and the Rayne Automotive device looks like a mains battery charger (to charge a battery up when connected to a mains hook up), neither is what I would class as a good DC-DC charger.

 

[Alexryc]

Cross posting, I'm not familiar with any of that kit but the blue device at the top looks like a solar charge controller (does it have solar panels?) and the Rayne Automotive device looks like a mains battery charger, neither is what I would class as a good DC-DC charger.

Yes it’s got a solar panel on the roof, he advised me there’s a gel battery and inverter is behind the driver. I haven’t seen the images you posted anywhere

 

[Grim Reaper]

You need to find out the capacity of the leisure battery when you locate it (expressed in Ah) this will give you an idea of how long you will need to charge it and how much you can safely take out of it without risking shortening its lifespan

 

[roadtripper]

View attachment 225073Look around the van for one of either of these devices, you really want something the size of the one on the right, not the one on the left.

Looking at one of the pics that looks like one of the all in one CBE PDU modules so it might be neither, it might just be a relay in that.

I doubt it's a gel battery, those are usually quite low capacity UPS type batteries, if it's a basic split charge then it's more likely to be AGM same as the starter.

 

[True Romance]

Yes Reaper it’s a 21 T6.1.

He told me it was on a “gel” battery. Can you see attachment?

But the one that says RAYNE automotive shows no signs of life

View attachment 225071

Is that pic your actual van? Have to say that's some pretty poor cable management for a professional installer. Wouldn't be happy with that considering you've probably paid a pretty penny.

 

[jimc91]

Also worth posting a picture of your starter battery under the bonnet so people can see if anything has been connected to the negative terminal by the convertor, if so this would be wrong for a stop start smart alternator

 

[Alexryc]

Is that pic your actual van? Have to say that's some pretty poor cable management for a professional installer. Wouldn't be happy with that considering you've probably paid a pretty penny.

Yes it is my van.

In what sense is it poor cable management? Thanks for the insight as I have no clue.

 

[ginkster]

You’re very helpful, I appreciate your time thank you. I’m going to go and get a proper handover. He’s 2 hours away but it’s better than me doing something silly. Yes the seller was the company that converted it!


Thanks sir, I’m going to do exactly that.


Yes Reaper it’s a 21 T6.1.

He told me it was on a “gel” battery. Can you see attachment?

But the one that says RAYNE automotive shows no signs of life

View attachment 225071

The grey box in the bottom left of the picture is a CBE DS300 which (unmodified) contains a relay to charge the leisure battery from the starter battery when the ignition is on plus a fuse board for 12v distribution amongst other things (such as a 2A trickle charge to the starter battery when on EHU). It is not really designed to work with a smart alternator such as that fitted to the T6, but can be modified to work alongside a DC-DC charger. This is done by disconnecting the R37 resistor in the picture below. Some converters (e.g Camperking) use the CBE kit but hide away a separate DC-DC charger behind the rear off-side quarter panel. It is also not lithium compatible if you want to upgrade to that in the future.



It is a bit strange to have a separate fuse box next to it as the DS300 can do that task. What control panel do you have fitted for the electrics? Is it a CBE one or a generic set of switches? Also, the Rayne Automotive box looks to be your mains powered battery charger so will only work on EHU. Normally a CBE charger (CB510 or 516) is used which connects to the DS300 and can provide a trickle charge to the starter battery. Maybe the RA one is wired up to do that?

As discussed, I’d definitely get the converter to give you a full run down of how it all works and also get them to explain how the DS300 is working with the smart alternator and what you would need to do if you moved to lithium. I’ve attached a link below to the instruction manual for the DS300. Good luck.

DS300 Manual

 

[Alexryc]

The grey box in the bottom left of the picture is a CBE DS300 which (unmodified) contains a relay to charge the leisure battery from the starter battery when the ignition is on plus a fuse board for 12v distribution amongst other things (such as a 2A trickle charge to the starter battery when on EHU). It is not really designed to work with a smart alternator such as that fitted to the T6, but can be modified to work alongside a DC-DC charger. This is done by disconnecting the R37 resistor in the picture below. Some converters (e.g Camperking) use the CBE kit but hide away a separate DC-DC charger behind the rear off-side quarter panel. It is also not lithium compatible if you want to upgrade to that in the future.

View attachment 225409

It is a bit strange to have a separate fuse box next to it as the DS300 can do that task. What control panel do you have fitted for the electrics? Is it a CBE one or a generic set of switches? Also, the Rayne Automotive box looks to be your mains powered battery charger so will only work on EHU. Normally a CBE charger (CB510 or 516) is used which connects to the DS300 and can provide a trickle charge to the starter battery. Maybe the RA one is wired up to do that?

As discussed, I’d definitely get the converter to give you a full run down of how it all works and also get them to explain how the DS300 is working with the smart alternator and what you would need to do if you moved to lithium. I’ve attached a link below to the instruction manual for the DS300. Good luck.

DS300 Manual

Thank you very much.

This is the engine bay if this helps?

I’m so confused still, so it would seem like I do have what’s required but the engine needs to be on?

I was told by the fitter, to ensure the alternator is always turned off… unless it needs to be used (for off grid use only)

The seperate fuse in the back, I was told to turn on when I’m connected into mains. Which I did last night and it worked great.

The Rayne automotive battery then came on and said “gel battery”

Yet, when I turned on the alternator… and plugged in a charger, it still didn’t work.

 

[ginkster]

I’m a bit confused about your description I’m afraid.

To confirm - the ‘alternator’ is what charges the starter battery (and therefore powers the normal vehicle electrics) when the engine is running. It’s a standard part of the van. Is that what you are meaning?

You mention a ‘fuse in the back’ that you turn on when on mains. That’s not what a fuse is used for. Can you highlight it on a pic?

I have a hunch that your inverter may be attached direct to your starter battery via the thick black lead with a red end that goes from the + terminal of the starter battery. It looks similar to the one going to the back of the inverter on one of the pics. If that’s the case you will flatten the starter battery very quickly - possibly hence the low voltage warnings you are getting. It needs to go to the leisure battery. I guess the red lead goes to the DS300. Both should (must) have a fuse very close to the starter battery - possibly just off the left of your pic above.

The two standard 3 pin plugs under the control panel will almost certainly only work when on mains hookup (and you’ve turned the ‘fuse’ on). I’m not familiar with your control panel so you may need to make a selection there too (instructions will be online - try 12voltplanet). It’s theoretically possible to make those sockets work from the inverter but I doubt that is how they’ve been wired given the rest of the setup.

The USB and cig lighter sockets above will be powered from your leisure battery via the control panel.

I suggest you ensure the inverter is turned off and all other sockets, lights etc. Connect to hookup and ensure the mains charger (Rayne) is charging - leave it for a good 12 hours until the little indicator light has gone to the end of the cycle. That will ensure your leisure battery is as charged as much as it can be. If wired correctly it will also top up the starter battery. At least the you know the batteries are charged and can work from there. Good luck!

 

[Pete C]

Thank you very much.

This is the engine bay if this helps?

I’m so confused still, so it would seem like I do have what’s required but the engine needs to be on?

I was told by the fitter, to ensure the alternator is always turned off… unless it needs to be used (for off grid use only)

The seperate fuse in the back, I was told to turn on when I’m connected into mains. Which I did last night and it worked great.

The Rayne automotive battery then came on and said “gel battery”

Yet, when I turned on the alternator… and plugged in a charger, it still didn’t work.

I think you mean “inverter” when you type “alternator”.

Pete