Random Charger Issue?

Malcyb

Member
Hi guys,

We’ve had a couple of occurrences of a weird, apparently random, issue with our charger/leisure battery setup. We have a CTEK D250SA charger, solar panel and LiFOS68 battery. Not sure if there’s anything else relevant. First time we parked up overnight a few months ago we were alarmed to discover the next morning we’d lost all power and had to connect to a hookup. We explained what happened to our installer but never got to the bottom of what the problem was; since then we’ve never once used the hookup and never ever seen the charge indicator for the leisure battery on our CBE DS100 control panel drop below 3 LEDs, I.e. fully charged, so the solar panel seemed to be doing its stuff and we forgot about the incident.

However this afternoon we had a recurrence of the problem, this is what happened....

We’ve been parked up at a campsite in the south of France for 48 hours in mostly bright sunshine, the leisure battery has remained fully charged (I habitually check it on the control panel from time to time). However late afternoon I suddenly noticed it had dropped to 1 LED lit, then after a minute of so this changed to a red flashing LED indicating the battery was about to expire. We had nothing drawing any unusual charge. I noted 2 particularly strange things. The LEDs on the charger didn’t correspond to any pattern shown in the user manual, with only the solar panel LED lit. And when I fired up the ignition, the alternator LED lit but the battery LED still did not. Sure enough after another few minutes we lost all power. Fortunately we had access to a hookup, and the strangest thing was that after connecting it, the charge indicator on the control panel almost immediately showed 2 LEDs and then 3 a couple of minutes later.

Given this evidence (surely the battery doesn’t fully charge from hookup in a couple of minutes!?) I can’t believe that this is a problem with our battery. And given that firing up the ignition didn’t help it surely can’t be our solar panel. So my best guess is that this is an intermittent fault with the CTEK charger.

Has anybody here any pearls of wisdom that might shed some light on this? For the meantime at least we’re safe in the knowledge we can carry on our holiday, but my wife’s ambition to go off grid in Aires might have to wait until we get to the bottom of this.

One other thing.... we discovered that our hookup cable wasn’t compatible with the french electric points and we were very lucky that the office were able to lend us an adaptor. Are french/UK adaptors easy to buy in France and if so, where??
 
Im inder the impresion that the CBE when connected to a EHU is just a power supply and is no good for charging a battery . . . . . Especially a lithulium lifos68.

So you have a Ctek for B2B/dc_dc for charging when the engine is running . . . . And a solar panel connected to the ctek too.....? For 24/7 solar . . . So if your saying that these charging means are fine? . . . You can double check this by looking at the App on your phone for the bluetooth monitor for your battery.

Also note that the 68ah battery may take 10hours or more to fully charge depending on the amps being supplied from the ctek and solar.

So it looks like you main concern will be on the EHU side . . . . I'd say that you need to disconnect the CBE charger from the battery and fit a decent 240v battery charger..... like the victron, , , say 10 to 30A...
 
Im inder the impresion that the CBE when connected to a EHU is just a power supply and is no good for charging a battery . . . . . Especially a lithulium lifos68.

So you have a Ctek for B2B/dc_dc for charging when the engine is running . . . . And a solar panel connected to the ctek too.....? For 24/7 solar . . . So if your saying that these charging means are fine? . . . You can double check this by looking at the App on your phone for the bluetooth monitor for your battery.

Also note that the 68ah battery may take 10hours or more to fully charge depending on the amps being supplied from the ctek and solar.

So it looks like you main concern will be on the EHU side . . . . I'd say that you need to disconnect the CBE charger from the battery and fit a decent 240v battery charger..... like the victron, , , say 10 to 30A...

Right I’m going to be a complete numpty here... what’s an EHU? I thought the CBE just monitored the charge on the battery, it’s the CTEK that charges it, from solar or alternator, so can’t see how the CBE can be anything to do with it. But glad you confirmed my suspicion that it should take so long to charge the battery and not a few minutes off hookup. Think I’m just going to have to get our installer to look into this, but being an intermittent fault it might be difficult
 
It would be unusual for a converter not to include a battery charger that charges the battery when in electric hook up. Mine makes an irritating whirring noise as the cooling fans cut in. But if you’ve got no information on having one then it looks like they didn’t put one in.

You could try one of the motorhome dealers near Perpignan for a converter eg

DESTINEA PERPIGNAN : Vente de camping-cars

Or

Aire de St Cyprien Latour bas Elne

Or an electric wholesaler and fettle one yourself.

Hope that is useful.
 
Im inder the impresion that the CBE when connected to a EHU is just a power supply and is no good for charging a battery . . . . . Especially a lithulium lifos68.

So you have a Ctek for B2B/dc_dc for charging when the engine is running . . . . And a solar panel connected to the ctek too.....? For 24/7 solar . . . So if your saying that these charging means are fine? . . . You can double check this by looking at the App on your phone for the bluetooth monitor for your battery.

Also note that the 68ah battery may take 10hours or more to fully charge depending on the amps being supplied from the ctek and solar.

So it looks like you main concern will be on the EHU side . . . . I'd say that you need to disconnect the CBE charger from the battery and fit a decent 240v battery charger..... like the victron, , , say 10 to 30A...

Ah right I know what EHU is now.... oops. Yes the CTEK is supposed to charge the battery off the solar panel or alternator. I can’t see how our problem can be on the EHU side since that’s worked fine the only times we’ve used it. The problem is that hooking up the EHU seems to be the only fix for this problem when it occurs, I.e. when running off solar. Didn’t know the battery had a Bluetooth monitor I’ll have to look into that.
 
It would be unusual for a converter not to include a battery charger that charges the battery when in electric hook up. Mine makes an irritating whirring noise as the cooling fans cut in. But if you’ve got no information on having one then it looks like they didn’t put one in.

You could try one of the motorhome dealers near Perpignan for a converter eg

DESTINEA PERPIGNAN : Vente de camping-cars

Or

Aire de St Cyprien Latour bas Elne

Or an electric wholesaler and fettle one yourself.

Hope that is useful.


Thanks that gives us a couple of options, I’ll ask reception at the site we’re at (very big one) tomorrow morning too.
 
Also 68ah is a small battery even for lithium...

What are you running off the leisure battery?

It might just be that you need a second battery to double your run time?
 
Also 68ah is a small battery even for lithium...

What are you running off the leisure battery?

It might just be that you need a second battery to double your run time?

We're not running much. Compressor fridge (moderate setting as I know this can draw a lot of power otherwise), charging a phone on the 2A USB, and LED lights at night. I know it's not a big battery. However that surely isn't our problem as it doesn't explain why it went from (apparently) full charge after 48 hours to losing power in another hour or 2, why the battery LED wasn't lit on the CTEK (it has been whenever else I looked) and why it wouldn't even charge from the alternator.
 
It would be unusual for a converter not to include a battery charger that charges the battery when in electric hook up. Mine makes an irritating whirring noise as the cooling fans cut in. But if you’ve got no information on having one then it looks like they didn’t put one in.

The battery does charge on EHU. Exactly how, I don't know. But this morning having just disconnected the EHU, the CBE control panel says it's fully charged and - the big difference - the battery LED on the CTEK charger is now illuminated as it should be, and wasn't just before I lost power yesterday. The problem seems to be to do with charging the battery from solar panel and alternator, not with the battery or EHU, but it's all very confusing.
 
it might be time to look at adding a battery monitor . . . .

because you have a Lithium . . . one that meters the current in/out is more preferable to just a volt meeter . . . . though a volt meter is good as well.

BMV-712 Smart - Victron Energy

ctek do one

CTX BATTERY SENSE


any my favorite the BM2 - CTX BATTERY SENSE


that way you can see the battery rest voltage, and the charging voltage from the various sources.

.
 
We're not running much. Compressor fridge (moderate setting as I know this can draw a lot of power otherwise), charging a phone on the 2A USB, and LED lights at night. I know it's not a big battery. However that surely isn't our problem as it doesn't explain why it went from (apparently) full charge after 48 hours to losing power in another hour or 2, why the battery LED wasn't lit on the CTEK (it has been whenever else I looked) and why it wouldn't even charge from the alternator.

heres the guide that shows there error codes, did yours relate to any?

it was most probably that the aux battery voltage was too low, so the ctek could not detect it . . . . and start a charge.

your batter is probably being charged via EHU from the CBE that has a small 12v output, that may put a charge back into the battery. (not an ideal scenario)

https://www.ctek.com/storage/ma/a83...E704B934B8/SMARTPASS_120-manual-low-UK-EN.pdf

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The CTEK 250SA does not have a lithium charge profile
 
heres the guide that shows there error codes, did yours relate to any?

it was most probably that the aux battery voltage was too low, so the ctek could not detect it . . . . and start a charge.
..

Thanks for the suggestions... the odd thing though was that I was referring to the user guide when the problem occurred and the display didn't correspond to any of these diagrams. It was most similar to the 3rd fault condition however the top left fault LED wasn't lit. This is one of the things that made me think the CTEK itself was faulty since it describes all the "external " fault conditions the unit is meant to check.
 
This nails it surely? The battery has been getting insufficient charge and is spitting its dummy out.

hmm really? My installer (a well known one who I won’t name here) installs these all the time, presumably successfully. And in the 4 months we’ve had the van we’ve only had this problem twice so it’s not like it’s a systemic failure. Mind you I’ll put your comment to him and see his reaction! I think I’m going to contact CTEK directly myself and see if they can explain the combination of LEDs I observed which aren’t in their documentation.
 
I’ve discussed the issue with my installer. First up, he’s previously confirmed with LIFOS that the battery’s internal management makes it a direct replacement for a lead acid (as mmi says) so it would be compatible with the CTEK unit. Having fully described the issue to him he also believes the CTEK charger is at fault; he says he’s had a faulty batch of units so going to book it in for a replacement. Fingers crossed this will fix it.
ATM the battery’s fully charged from the alternator, and fat chance of it charging from the solar as it’s black as night in the midst of a torrential thunderstorm :eek:
 
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https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/68Ah Lifos Technical data sheet V2.pdf

Smart app - LiFOS

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