Retrofit: Power fold mirror with fold on remote lock

[SAF1981]

I thought that. Think that’s the way to go. At least it’s easy to choose/fit the cabling now the dashboard lowers are removed!

I installed my power folding mirrors last week and that's what I did with mine as Deaky suggested.

 

[Iany1954]

Hope someone can shed some light on my problem with this retrofit (eBay) modification with added relays. All is installed and works perfectly with lock/unlock. However, the manual internal switch (only works with ignition on) is intermittent. The relays click and actuate correctly putting 12V on the required module sense wire. This only works correctly about once every 10 attempts, despite the inputs being switched correctly! If I set the switch to fold and the mirrors do not fold then simply disconnecting then reconnecting the fold sense wire from its relay causes correct operation. This is very repeatable. Just manually connecting the correct sense wire to 12V always results in correct operation.

I’m wondering if the system requires a short delay between fold/unfold command to function correctly? I’ve ordered another module, as they are cheap, and will see if that works!

has anyone else had a similar problem with this set up?

 

[Iany1954]

I installed my power folding mirrors last week and that's what I did with mine as Deaky suggested.

Hi, did you fit the aftermarket (eBay) type with additional relays? If so have you come across a problem with operation of the mirror fold switch? The manual fold using the switch is intermittent taking several attempts to fold or unfold. I cannot find why despite using different relays, generating a transistor alternative and hours of testing! The only way operation is always successful (manually with ignition on) is by actually taking the fold/unfold wires to +12v by hand! The auto fold on lock/ unlock works perfectly!

 

[Iany1954]

Output signal from the aftermarket unit to fold or unfold both mirrors is approximately 7 second long, and my mirrors fold in approximately 5 seconds and unfold in approximately 2.5 seconds.

Current draw per mirror when it is on the move from one end position to the other end position is 0.25A . And when mirror hits the end position current jumps to 1.55A but only for a fraction of a second. At that point build in the motor electronics cut off the supply while the control module still keeps the output active.

Hi, I’ve fitted the auto folding mirrors as per your excellent description using two relays. However, try as I might I cannot get the manual door switch control to work reliably. I believe my module requires some delay between fold and unfold requests and the relays do not quite achieve this. The module that I am using is the same as the one in your description. I’m 100% positive that my circuit is correct as correct fold/unfold can be made to occur by briefly removing/replacing the active wire to the module (this forces a delay).

I’ve come up with an alternative as the sketch. I’m sure this will work but can you confirm that having the unfold mirror wire permanently driven by 12v whilst ignition on will not damage the motor?

thanks
Ian

 

[Robert]

Mirror motors require timed power supply. Additionally this supply has to be reversible in the sense of polarity.
You can design folding controller yourself but why do that if Chinese did it already at such a low cost.

I am not sure if your module functionality is the same as mine. There are similar modules but their logic is slightly different.

Have a look below.

i did mysel as cheap is posible. my wire diagram

View attachment 59493

 

[Iany1954]

Mirror motors require timed power supply. Additionally this supply has to be reversible in the sense of polarity.
You can design folding controller yourself but why do that if Chinese did it already at such a low cost.

I am not sure if your module functionality is the same as mine. There are similar modules but their logic is slightly different.

Have a look below.

Thanks for that. The module I used seems identical as in your original twin relay design with the same wire colours to the same pins (see photo). I already tried the single relay version as you indicated and that also was intermittent (although the module indicated is different from mine). I can only assume that there has been a change in design of my module and some external delay is required between the fold/unfold switch signals.

Since the mirror supply is reversible (current flows bidirectionally down fold and unfold feeds) then my circuit will not work as the return path to ground for the motor will be blocked by a diode. I’m going to add a short (0.5 second) delay between the fold/unfold switch signals and hopefully this will cure the problem.

Thanks for your help and I’ll let you know how my added delay works.

 

[Iany1954]

Thankfully my idea worked. I used the single relay version that you identified but then added a delay on relay (Relay 12V Timer Switch Module Time Delay Relay Shield NE555 Adjustable Car -UK | eBay) in each signal to the module, this means a delay occurs between each change of setting. I set the delay time to 1/4 to 1/2 second and the system works perfectly every time!

Obviously something has changed but an extra £6.70 fixed it and it’s much cheaper than the Travelinlite version!

thanks for all help,
Ian

 

[n10n]

Has anyone found a motor side connector for ”motors only” retrofit?

I sourced the units from aliexpress but they didn’t include connectors. This kind of dc motors are readily available but my searches fail to find any plugs. I can probably tinker them from eg spade connectors and sikaflex for sealing so it’s not really critical… just would be nicer to use proper ones.

Thanks!

 

[Aron]

That's what they look like and they are only twin spade connectors.

 

[n10n]

Lovely bench testing mess. Like @Iany1954 I found out that fold switch setup through double relay does not work with this version of the module (NK-RMF-1 v1.0), need to think about this a bit. Lock and unlock signals work fine. Some mirror outputs graphed out in my ”scope” while playing with the switches.

 

[n10n]

this version of the module (NK-RMF-1 v1.0), need to think about this a bit. Lock and unlock signals work fine.

I now understand little bit better how this module is supposed to work. Basically there's two modes of operation: ignition on and ignition off.

• When ignition is off, LOCK and UNLOCK (orange / pink) provide 5 sec timed fold / unfold to mirrors. FOLD and UNFOLD (blue / yellow) do nothing.
• When ignition is on, LOCK and UNLOCK (orange / pink) do nothing. FOLD and UNFOLD (blue / yellow) provide *max* 5 sec timed fold / unfold to mirrors, however if the signal is < 5 sec the drive to mirrors will also be cut immediately.

The method @Iany1954 posted looks like the way to go but has the downside of pulling ~30 mA even with ignition off if you leave the switch to fold position + some complexity from delay circuits which indeed seem necessary with this module.

I think I will go with the simpler, though by means not perfect setup:

• Change the jumper within the module to be unfold on ignition on
• Leave UNLOCK, FOLD and UNFOLD unused (connected to GND)
• Make IGN to module conditional on the folding switch ie provide module with IGN only when unfolding switch is open

With this setup, there's no way to fold except by locking doors when ignition is off - so kind of seems mirror switch doesn't do anything. But it can be used to prevent unfolding on ignition if somebody has parked too close when you were away. And ofc I could always still add a 2-way rocker switch for manual FOLD/UNFOLD signals.

 

[n10n]

I think I will go with the simpler, though by means not perfect setup:

Umm… no. Being little frustrated that I would have a folding switch that didn’t fold but also not enjoying the idea of relay array (control + 2 delays/relays) I hacked together 2 timer circuits without relays.

Not exactly a thing of beauty but it seems to work so far on a quick test and I was (barely) able to fit it in the folding module enclosure although using just axial components





It converts folding switch position change to a 5 sec pulse for FOLD or UNFOLD signals - this way there is no need for delays since the F/U will be held low except when motors are moving. Why not use LOCK and UNLOCK then directly instead? Because locking / unlocking would then move mirrors also when driving… fold on autolock…

Nice, this thing eats bare 0.55mA in room temperature, it needs to be in permanent live so this will be neglible

 

[n10n]

I claim not to be much of an electronics wiz but here’s the timer circuit schematic for inspiration, mostly combined from googling around for similar circuits and playing around in simulation software until the results seemed stable.

Couple of notes:

• TLC555IP timer chip: -40..85 deg temperature range, low power, max 15V rated voltage but should take 18V before permanent damage
• Folding and unfolding circuits are identical except for Q1 NPN transistor that is used to invert the folding switch signal for the other half
• In the schematic folding switch is simulated by a very slow (10s on, 10s off) clock pulse driving a voltage controlled switch
• The duration of the output pulse can be controlled by changing values of R3/C3 and R4/C4, schematic values provide approximate 5secs and thats the maximum of the folding module anyways
• R5/C5 delay the TRIG signal slightly as compared to RESET. When voltage at switch goes high so does RESET meaning the timer is ready. If the TRIG is brought up exactly same time the behaviour is unstable.

And here’s the simulation output showing voltage at switch, fold/unfold outputs and overall current. Like verified in real life, simulation shows about 500uA constant draw but large current spikes around switching, these are inherent to any 555 circuits. They’re somewhat tamed by C7,C8 and C9.



TBF going with the OEM door modules would probably be more sensible but I just enjoy this kind of small challenges

 

[n10n]

Final form ready for installation and timer circuit testing with motors

 

[n10n]

And here’s the simulation output showing voltage at switch, fold/unfold outputs and overall current. Like verified in real life, simulation shows about 500uA constant draw but large current spikes around switching, these are inherent to any 555 circuits. They’re somewhat tamed by C7,C8 and C9.

View attachment 193569

Otherwise working great installed but I have the folding switch operation exactly reversed. Probably the motor polarities needed to be just the opposite to my testing when in situ. But I guess no problem, I’ll just flip fold and unfold signals.

Edit: swapping the wires from my timer to blue and yellow of the mirror module did the trick, all sorted now

 

[n10n]

Close but no cigar

Apparently Aliexpress motors sit a bit higher than to where OEM manual folding unit seats and hence there’s a small gap between mirror and the body. It’s not like mirrors would be flying anywhere but not really beautiful either.

I wonder if I should just have hammered the mirror frame little bit deeper to the folding unit… it felt to seat right though. Or maybe should have tried to swap the base of manual folding unit to the electric one?

 

[dhardyuk]

That's what they look like and they are only twin spade connectors.

Can anyone provide a part number for this plug?

A clear picture of a genuine VW plug could probably be turned into a 3d printed part with some spade terminals, springs or pogo pins to make solid connections .....

I've gone the belt and braces route with a TravelinLite T6 kit installed and also bought a pair of motors / power fold replacement bushings to see how straight forward it might be to refurb my original manual fold mirrors that have the paint finish that matches the rest of the Caravelle. I have the original looms for the mirrors and just need the motor plugs to be able to dig into it a bit more. These motors fit nicely into the mirror central frame so that holds some promise for a good outcome.

Someone is selling cheapie powerfold mirrors for £109.95 ea on eBay atm which suggests that there is a glut (or, a more suspicious mind might conclude, a reliability problem hence stock dumping)

T6 powerfold mirror for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for T6 powerfold mirror. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.co.uk

As a clumsy fool I am usually in the market for a mirror or two (mostly low speed kisses from car park furniture taking liberties and actually being much closer than it appears) so this is a thread I have been following with interest and that picture is the closest thing I have seen to an OEM style plug.

 

[mlh677]

Close but no cigar

Apparently Aliexpress motors sit a bit higher than to where OEM manual folding unit seats and hence there’s a small gap between mirror and the body. It’s not like mirrors would be flying anywhere but not really beautiful either.

I wonder if I should just have hammered the mirror frame little bit deeper to the folding unit… it felt to seat right though. Or maybe should have tried to swap the base of manual folding unit to the electric one?

View attachment 196163

@n10n - I am thinking about fitting some of the Aliexpress motors to OEM mirrors myself. Just one question - do you have any vibration in the mirrors when driving?

I am asking because my OEM manual-folding mirrors had no vibration. I fitted some aftermarket power-folding mirrors last year which have a small gap between mirror and base, as shown in your image. My aftermarket mirrors vibrate noticeably when driving. It is tolerable, but ideally I would like to eliminate the vibration completely and am hoping that I can fix this by modifying my OEM mirrors with new motors as you have done.

 

[SAF1981]

I am thinking about fitting some of the Aliexpress motors to OEM mirrors myself. Just one question - do you have any vibration in the mirrors when driving?

I am asking because my OEM manual-folding mirrors had no vibration. I fitted some aftermarket power-folding mirrors last year which have a small gap between mirror and base, as shown in your image. My aftermarket mirrors vibrate noticeably when driving. It is tolerable, but ideally I would like to eliminate the vibration completely and am hoping that I can fix this by modifying my OEM mirrors with new motors as you have done.

I'm having this exact problem with my TravelinLite (probably same Ali-Express but with mark up for import and tax) after market folding wing mirrors.
They vibrate quite a bit to the point of the road and cars looking "fuzzy". Put foam piping behind mirror in wing housing to try and absorb but hasn't worked effectively.

 

[n10n]

@n10n - I am thinking about fitting some of the Aliexpress motors to OEM mirrors myself. Just one question - do you have any vibration in the mirrors when driving?

I am asking because my OEM manual-folding mirrors had no vibration. I fitted some aftermarket power-folding mirrors last year which have a small gap between mirror and base, as shown in your image. My aftermarket mirrors vibrate noticeably when driving. It is tolerable, but ideally I would like to eliminate the vibration completely and am hoping that I can fix this by modifying my OEM mirrors with new motors as you have done.

Hi, my mirrors do not vibrate when driving. One of them is not completely smooth and starts folding with a kind of clunk but thats it.

Assuming all is screwed down tight (the plastic triangle to the door, motor base plate to the triangle and the mirror frame through the motor) the vibration could only come from a) if the motor assembly is too loose over the sleeve it rotates around or b) the actual mirror glass not being tight enough in the base that adjusts it’s angle.

Maybe try to locate where the vibration originates from and see if you could add some padding or something to ease it down? Aliexpress motors are still over 100€ a piece, I wouldn’t change unless I was sure the issue was with the motor.

About the gap: I investigated it bit more and found out the Aliexpress motors were correct height and the frame sat exactly right on the motor - as the screws go through the motor it can’t be assembled wrong. But the fitting of the mirror covers is little bit iffy, I could make the gap little bit smaller just by loosening the two screws under the mirror glass and adjusting the plastic under it before retightening, and then tried to minimize the gap when refitting the covers.