Solar panel/PWM controller failed?

D

drooke

Member
VIP Member
T6 Pro
Hi all,

My conversion is approaching 3 years old now. I've never paid much attention to the solar install until last year when I noticed the leisure battery seemed to be running low. I've noticed on the controller that even in good weather the leisure battery is not charged but occasionally I see that it is charging.

PWM controller https://www.solorder.se/image/data/uploads/KLD1210.pdf
100/120W semi-flexible solar panel fitted to pop top

I was thinking that the panel had failed and so was going to request a warranty replacement, before the 3 year warranty finishes in May. Could it be that this is how the PWM controller works though, perhaps it needs a really bright day? The intermittent nature of the solar charging confuses me. I've been reading about MPPT controllers getting more out of a panel suggesting PWM controllers have some limitations - perhaps upgrading to an MPPT controller would solve my issue?

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan
 
I've not got solar but I believe the MPPT control is better for extracing the most from the panel.
 
Victron claim a 30% improvement in harvest from MPPT vs PWM . .

@drooke can you post some pics of your setup?

also how are you monitoring the batterys?

what loads are being pulled from the battery?



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.
 
Solar controllers rarely fail, the easiest way to confirm if it’s the panel or controller is to disconnect the solar feed to the regulator and check the voltage, even on a dullish day you should be getting 19 to 21 volts, there was a thread on here about flexi panels failing, it makes sense if you are changing the regulator to maybe fit an MPPT but if it’s only charging one battery the extra 20% may not even be used anyway

you definitely need to sort it before the warranty expires
 
Forgot to get photos yesterday, just taken some showing panel and controller. It's grey and raining out there today so wouldn't expect it to be charging and that is confirmed on the controller's LCD - it's usually, but not always, the same even on a sunny day.
PXL_20210311_072615143.jpg
PXL_20210311_072751617.jpg

Is the intermittent nature of the charge just that the weather isn't good enough/bright enough for the controller to charge? Does that explain the intermittent nature of the charging?

If the panel had failed, wouldn't I expect it not to charge at any time?

In terms of load on the leisure battery, the system has some LED lighting and a CRX50 fridge. Occasionally I'll run an inverter too.

By the way, I like the idea of upgrading to the Victron MPPT controller just for the monitoring app and extra yield. But want to make sure the panel is good first, if I change controller they may refuse the warranty claim.

Thanks
 
Last edited:
N1ck said:
Solar controllers rarely fail, the easiest way to confirm if it’s the panel or controller is to disconnect the solar feed to the regulator and check the voltage, even on a dullish day you should be getting 19 to 21 volts, there was a thread on here about flexi panels failing, it makes sense if you are changing the regulator to maybe fit an MPPT but if it’s only charging one battery the extra 20% may not even be used anyway

you definitely need to sort it before the warranty expires
Click to expand...
Thanks @N1ck, so disconnect the solar input from the controller and measure the voltage? I've read that there is a particular order when wiring in a controller, do I need to disconnect anything else first?
 
You should connect the battery first then the solar on install so disconnecting The solar to test the output then reconnecting will be fine
 
Our panel failed a couple of years ago, it was only charging the battery when it was cool outside. I bought a victron MPPT controller as linked above which allowed me to record the charging graphs and prove the issue. I don't really understand how they work but in the end it was believed that the micro connections inside the panel were separating when the panel heated up but when it cooled and contracted it was fine. Flexible panels stuck to the roof will always heat up more due to the lack of airflow underneath it and run the risk of damage from it.
 
@drooke

is this a T5 or T6? - do you have stop/start?

im asking as i see you have a VSR / SCR -if you have a T6, this is not helping matters.

This can be swapped out for a DC-DC charger easy . . . and one with an integrated solar MPPT controller.

1615459325215.png
more on that here:




****


also this is a very basic PWM controller . . .

1615459584773.png


+++

if you want to test the panel voltage, take these terminals out and test them with a volt meter.

then test the current from the panel . . . 100w = 6A ish.

a failing panel will sometimes give a good voltage but produce no current . . . therefore no power.

1615459660743.png


+++


There are a few duel purpose units that have solar mppt and dc-dc.

The CTEK D250 is popular(as an example) : CTEK 40-315 Battery Charger, Black: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike


1615459468663.png




.
 
Thanks both.

I've just been out to test and I'm getting a -1 reading on all of the voltage settings of my multimeter after taking the wires out of the controller. The controller knows that the panel was disconnected though and stopped displaying the panel icon, perhaps that's just based off resistance though. Does it sound like the panel has failed then?

This is all fitted in my T5.1 without stop start.

I'll have a read of those threads. Can the split charger stay and I just upgrade to a Victron MPPT controller for a simpler swap?

Thanks
 
drooke said:
I've just been out to test and I'm getting a -1 reading on all of the voltage settings of my multimeter after taking the wires out of the controller.
Click to expand...
I was getting that the other day, but set it to 200V, it worked today, showing 20.3V. My CTEK doesn't work off the solar. I've tested and get 20.3V at the terminals, but no charging, and no fault lights. :confused:
 
Last edited:
Wanted to update on my situation. I had the van booked in this week for a new panel and MPPT controller to be fitted, after a lead time on booking in with my chosen fitter (not the original cowboys!). I've gone for:
  • Photonic Universe 180W panel
  • Victron Energy 100/30 MPPT solar controller
The first stage on Tuesday was removing the existing panel which was bonded on. This uncovered lots of water sat underneath the panel and bubbling of the paint and possibly fibreglass of the pop top - not showing up very well in the photo below. While the new panel is larger than the old purposefully, the fitter wasn't happy proceeding without drying out the roof at a minimum. He was concerned that there may be issues with the fibreglass.

PXL_20210722_105301799.jpg

I've taken it to a bodyshop today and they seemed to suggest that there could be water in the fibreglass but it's an unknown. They suggested that I either strip the sikaflex bonding off myself, a lot of effort apparently, and then wrap the affected part of the roof or they can do this and paint the whole pop top for £600. The wrap doesn't seem like a great solution and the full painting of the roof seems a bit excessive and and expensive which would take the whole job to replace the panel to about £1200, albeit with an upgraded controller.

Any thoughts on the best way to proceed giving a decent job without huge expense?

Thanks
 
the back end of the panel should not have been sealed . .

it should be left open for water to drain out and stop that issue.

also air gap is need for expansion and draining . . (back end.)

front and sides can be sealed to stop lifting from motorway driving etc.

back - open.


also look at fitting Vinyl wrap over that section so that the adhesive sticks to that and not the paintwork.






more info here:

www.t6forum.com

Solar Panel: Cutting Hole in Roof !!!

im going fit a solar panel I’ve made sure all cables and connections are under the panel. As I hate to see them. Until it arrives I don’t know how high the connections make the panel sit off the roof ! It’s a HiLow roof. Inside is unfinished. I’ve got to drill cable holes anyway. So...
www.t6forum.com www.t6forum.com





and here:


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SOLAR:


*****************************************************
 
I'm currently thinking of cleaning up what's there using a multi-cutter with a blade attachment, looks to be relatively easy to get sikaflex off with that method. Maybe some sanding too. Then go with a vinyl wrap over that, slightly bigger than the dimensions of the new panel.

Is bonding to the wrap going to be strong enough to hold the panel on at speed? Couldn't the wrap come off?

Any concerns over the fibreglass having water in? Or the wrap causing issues?

Cheers
 
bonding to the wrap is fine. .

something to do with the total surface area means it wont fly off.
 
Dellmassive said:
the back end of the panel should not have been sealed . .

it should be left open for water to drain out and stop that issue.

also air gap is need for expansion and draining . . (back end.)

front and sides can be sealed to stop lifting from motorway driving etc.

back - open.


also look at fitting Vinyl wrap over that section so that the adhesive sticks to that and not the paintwork.






more info here:

www.t6forum.com

Solar Panel: Cutting Hole in Roof !!!

im going fit a solar panel I’ve made sure all cables and connections are under the panel. As I hate to see them. Until it arrives I don’t know how high the connections make the panel sit off the roof ! It’s a HiLow roof. Inside is unfinished. I’ve got to drill cable holes anyway. So...
www.t6forum.com www.t6forum.com





and here:


*****************************************************

SOLAR:


*****************************************************
Click to expand...
Exactly @Dellmassive. Air gaps are needed to prevent a pocket of air which could expand and damage the solar cells. We leave gap at front and rear to allow for this and also the water can run out at font and rear. Fully sealed will lead to problems.

Rgds
Ian
 
drooke said:
Wanted to update on my situation. I had the van booked in this week for a new panel and MPPT controller to be fitted, after a lead time on booking in with my chosen fitter (not the original cowboys!). I've gone for:
  • Photonic Universe 180W panel
  • Victron Energy 100/30 MPPT solar controller
The first stage on Tuesday was removing the existing panel which was bonded on. This uncovered lots of water sat underneath the panel and bubbling of the paint and possibly fibreglass of the pop top - not showing up very well in the photo below. While the new panel is larger than the old purposefully, the fitter wasn't happy proceeding without drying out the roof at a minimum. He was concerned that there may be issues with the fibreglass.

View attachment 124475

I've taken it to a bodyshop today and they seemed to suggest that there could be water in the fibreglass but it's an unknown. They suggested that I either strip the sikaflex bonding off myself, a lot of effort apparently, and then wrap the affected part of the roof or they can do this and paint the whole pop top for £600. The wrap doesn't seem like a great solution and the full painting of the roof seems a bit excessive and and expensive which would take the whole job to replace the panel to about £1200, albeit with an upgraded controller.

Any thoughts on the best way to proceed giving a decent job without huge expense?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I'd use a rear entry panel and fit over those 2 x cables for a much neater look. see here -

How about having a rectangle only painted on the top to cover the mess, cheaaper than the whole roof painted?

Cheers
Ian
 
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