T6.1 Horn location and replacement

[YWS22]

It's taken me all day but it sounds like a big van now and not a pedal car. Bearing in mind that mine is a 2023 model and I have already found a few new wrinkles so I don't know if anything has changed since the OPs original posts but;

I expected the under tray to come off but it is part of the behind the bumper assembly and doesn't so the access is through the bottom of the front inner wing.

There isn't enough room to get a spline key into the socket bolt so small moles are required.

Cut and crimp the wires and then extra support with some cloth tape.

There was no way that the horns were going in on the flat even if I could have got the bolt in. The metal tangs are wider than the bracket guides and in any case they won't fit without fouling wheel arch cover. This may be a product of the plastic behind the bumper construction that houses the fog lights. So a small bracket was called for which also has the benefit of mounting the horns vertically so they will drain if they get soaked.

View attachment 191560 View attachment 191562 View attachment 191563

And then they sound sooo much better. It almost makes me want to drive back to Aberfeldy and see if I can find the lady who pulled out again

Hi, wish you had done yours before I did mine. One has stopped working, looks like because I’ve put them on their side so water has increased. You wouldn’t happen to have a picture of the bracket you fabricated. If I don’t get them replaced under warranty I will have to change the original one back out and it’s something I could make before stripping it down again. ? Thanks in advance.

 

[YWS22]

Hi, wish you had done yours before I did mine. One has stopped working, looks like because I’ve put them on their side so water has increased. You wouldn’t happen to have a picture of the bracket you fabricated. If I don’t get them replaced under warranty I will have to change the original one back out and it’s something I could make before stripping it down again. ? Thanks in advance.

View attachment 199080

Ingress not increased

 

[Californication69]

Hi, have you had any problems with your horns. Fitted mine back in December as per an earlier post on here. Went to use them a few weeks ago as a warning as someone was backing out without looking and the noise was worse than original. On close inspection the 500 wasn’t working at all and the 600 wasn’t great. Fast forward to me returning them to the supplier they are saying they shouldn’t be mounted like you and I have/had them as water will sit in the top and ingress. I’m awaiting a response from the manufacturer when they have spoken with them.? Thanks.

Hi, no issues with the horns.
My only annoyance is I can’t do a short toot toot.
If I press the horn twice, it just does one toot. Then I have to wait to press it again. A bit daft but hey!
Surely they should be waterproof as outside on the engine bay. ?
Will keep my eye on them. But Amazon bought, so can return within a year

 

[YWS22]

Hi, no issues with the horns.
My only annoyance is I can’t do a short toot toot.
If I press the horn twice, it just does one toot. Then I have to wait to press it again. A bit daft but hey!
Surely they should be waterproof as outside on the engine bay. ?
Will keep my eye on them. But Amazon bought, so can return within a year

Thanks for the quick response. That’s what I thought. Will attach the response from the motor factor where I bought them from. One of the later posts on here has them how they should be fitted. Facing down so water wouldn’t sit on the top with the electrical connections. I’m glad it wasn’t a matter of life or death when I needed them.

 

[Samro]

I have done something stupid. I omitted the relay when I fitted my PIAA 500Hz/600Hz horns and they worked fine for 6 months until i noted the horn didn't work yesterday.

I was under the impression from the wiring diagram that the horn is fed from SC36 and that this has a 30A fuse and so I simply wired in the horn without a relay as wasn't going to exceed 30A.

Today I checked the voltage at the horn and I have a static voltage of 2.6V. When I press the horn, the voltage then increases to 10.3V! I have referred back to wiring diagrams and can't for the life of me work out how I established that Fuse SC36 provides power to the horn, but is doesn't!

I'm now kicking myself for omitting the installation of a relay!

It is now pi55in6 with rain, so i have abandoned the problem but would very much welcome and assistance.



I am in panic ,as fuse SC36 is intact and I now I look at the wiring diagram I am panicking as the horn cabling doesn't look to be protected from fuse SC36 or any other fuses that I can locate for that matter! I am therefore worried that the airhorns have overloaded something and melted cables or a connection somewhere. I m feeling a bit overwhelmed on where to start locating the fault! Any help from Gurus such as @Pauly @Loz @mmi @Dellmassive would be enormously well received as I ned a pointer or two!


I assume that @YWS22, @Californication69 or @VanBlanc have not experienced any issues?

 

[YWS22]

I have done something stupid. I omitted the relay when I fitted my PIAA 500Hz/600Hz horns and they worked fine for 6 months until i noted the horn didn't work yesterday.

I was under the impression from the wiring diagram that the horn is fed from SC36 and that this has a 30A fuse and so I simply wired in the horn without a relay as wasn't going to exceed 30A.

Today I checked the voltage at the horn and I have a static voltage of 2.6V. When I press the horn, the voltage then increases to 10.3V! I have referred back to wiring diagrams and can't for the life of me work out how I established that Fuse SC36 provides power to the horn, but is doesn't!

I'm now kicking myself for omitting the installation of a relay!

It is now pi55in6 with rain, so i have abandoned the problem but would very much welcome and assistance.

View attachment 201954View attachment 201959

I am in panic ,as fuse SC36 is intact and I now I look at the wiring diagram I am panicking as the horn cabling doesn't look to be protected from fuse SC36 or any other fuses that I can locate for that matter! I am therefore worried that the airhorns have overloaded something and melted cables or a connection somewhere. I m feeling a bit overwhelmed on where to start locating the fault! Any help from Gurus such as @Pauly @Loz @mmi @Dellmassive would be enormously well received as I ned a pointer or two!
View attachment 201953

I assume that @YWS22, @Californication69 or @VanBlanc have not experienced any issues?

Hi, I never fitted a relay either. I’ve just had mine replaced under warranty. More for a goodwill than it was the fault of the horns. They need to be mounded so the shields are at the bottom which I hadn’t done. This allowed water to sit on the top where the wiring was which then ingresses into the horn. Where I got them from were very good and sent a new set out. I’ve not fitted them yet as I need to make/buy some sort of bracket to fit them that way. One of the more recent posts on here shows how they should be fitted. How were yours and could it be a water problem. I’ve put the original back on while I awaited the replacements and sort the bracket. Still works fine so I’m guessing I never needed the relay. ?

 

[Samro]

Hi, I never fitted a relay either. I’ve just had mine replaced under warranty. More for a goodwill than it was the fault of the horns. They need to be mounded so the shields are at the bottom which I hadn’t done. This allowed water to sit on the top where the wiring was which then ingresses into the horn. Where I got them from were very good and sent a new set out. I’ve not fitted them yet as I need to make/buy some sort of bracket to fit them that way. One of the more recent posts on here shows how they should be fitted. How were yours and could it be a water problem. I’ve put the original back on while I awaited the replacements and sort the bracket. Still works fine so I’m guessing I never needed the relay. ?

Well, I've tested the horns (which I fitted with the horns facing down) and the horn tests fine on a separate 12v supply.

The issue is the vehicle wiring, as with the horns removed, I'm getting a permanent voltage of between 2 and 3 volts.

I m getting 10 - 10.5 volts when the horn is operated.

I think that I have melted some cabling somewhere by not using a relay. If I knew how to locate the supply fuse it would be a start, but I am flummoxed by what is going on!

 

[Californication69]

I assume that @YWS22, @Californication69 or @VanBlanc have not experienced any issues?

Mine are installed on a California Ocean 6.1 MY2023.
Not sure what vehicle you have?
Mine are still working.
They are only 2.7 amps draw each, so 5.4 amps total. so the same as the original horn.
The cable that goes there is perfectly fine for the load, on a 6,1.
Let us know what vehicle you have.
What voltage do you have at the battery + to chassis?

 

[Samro]

Mine are installed on a California Ocean 6.1 MY2023.
Not sure what vehicle you have?
Mine are still working.
They are only 2.7 amps draw each, so 5.4 amps total. so the same as the original horn.
The cable that goes there is perfectly fine for the load, on a 6,1.
Let us know what vehicle you have.
What voltage do you have at the battery + to chassis?

I am a 2021 T6.1 Highline Panel Van.
I couldn't agree more about the required 5.4A for the horns.
I don't know what the original Noddy horn was rated at, but I made an assumption that the horn wiring was protected with a 30 A fuse and the cable is 2.5 sq mm so didn't see any issue with fitting the PIAA horns!
It is likely that the horn replacement is a curved ball and that I have an unrelated electrical fault, but if there is no cable damage then it seems odd that i have the symptom of a continuous 2.5 volt feed to the horn and also a volt drop of a coupe of volts (to 10.5V) when the horn is operated.

As I say.. I am flummoxed!

 

[Californication69]

Aha, okay, so hopefully someone will be along with some help with the 6.1 panel van.
Have you fitted anything else or dismantled anything recently that would help with the diagnosis ?
If it is still under warranty, re-install the original horn and take it to VW.
I keep my original parts, just in case of this situation.

 

[YWS22]

Well, I've tested the horns (which I fitted with the horns facing down) and the horn tests fine on a separate 12v supply.

The issue is the vehicle wiring, as with the horns removed, I'm getting a permanent voltage of between 2 and 3 volts.

I m getting 10 - 10.5 volts when the horn is operated.

I think that I have melted some cabling somewhere by not using a relay. If I knew how to locate the supply fuse it would be a start, but I am flummoxed by what is going on!

 

[YWS22]

View attachment 201976

This is the fuse.

 

[Samro]

This is the fuse.

That is why I am baffled! Can anyone confirm if there is some sort of bias voltage to the horn wiring? (IE: Is the BCM sending a small voltage in a few milliamps to monitor the integrity of the circuit?)

The reason I ask is that I have fixed my issue, but can confirm that I had 2.3V showing on the horn power supply, even with fuse SC36 removed.

What I have done this morning is as follows:

• Removed horn and tested on a battery. Tested all ok.
• Noted that the spade connections on horn were a bit green and I cleaned these connections with electrical cleaner before refitting.
• Tested voltage at OEM wiring and found I had 2.3V at all times, with approx 10.5V when pressing horn.
• Removed fuse SC36 and noted that I still had 2.3V at horn wiring with the fuse removed.
• Replaced wiring between OEM wiring and PIAA horns.
• Plugged in horns, even though voltage was still under 11V when horn was pressed.
• Once horn was connected I pressed the horn and it sounded!
• Rechecked voltage at horn (with horn still plugged in) and voltage was a shade over 12 volts.

I think that my problem was simply a poor connection which I have now resolved, as removing the horn, cleaning everything up and replacing all connections has made it work, but I cannot fathom what has occurred and I have just put the wheel arch back together with a view to looking at this again on a day with less heavy showers!

I am getting no faults on Carista indicating parasitic draw which i would expect, given my symptoms with this morning's palaver!

If anyone can shed any light on what has occurred I'd be grateful!

 

[mmi]

I am in panic ,as fuse SC36 is intact and I now I look at the wiring diagram I am panicking as the horn cabling doesn't look to be protected from fuse SC36 or any other fuses that I can locate for that matter!

On T6.1 the dedicated supply (into BCM) for horn is fused by SC36.

Can anyone confirm if there is some sort of bias voltage to the horn wiring? (IE: Is the BCM sending a small voltage in a few milliamps to monitor the integrity of the circuit?)

Not checked specifically on T6.1 but I would expect that also there is a "sensing" signal what you were seeing. Almost all circuits do this. It's actually a steady stream of narrow (<12V) pulses - shown as a low voltage on multimeter on open circuit. If your multimeter can measure frequency - it would probably show 100 Hz.

 

[Samro]

On T6.1 the dedicated supply (into BCM) for horn is fused by SC36.
View attachment 201990


Not checked specifically on T6.1 but I would expect that also there is a "sensing" signal what you were seeing. Almost all circuits do this. It's actually a steady stream of narrow (<12V) pulses - shown as a low voltage on multimeter on open circuit. If your multimeter can measure frequency - it would probably show 100 Hz.

That is so useful. Thank you @mmi. I thought I was going nuts!

 

[denz1968]

Just bought the PIAA 500 & 600 twin horn set.

My plan is to cut to the OEM connector. Then use piggy back spade connectors to power each of the two horns supplied. Heat shrink and cloth tape to protect.
Brown is OEM negative and Black/yellow positive on T6.1

May need to make a bracket to hold the two horns in the correct orientation.

Can anyone see any problems with my plan

Thanks

 

[Californication69]

Just bought the PIAA 500 & 600 twin horn set.

My plan is to cut to the OEM connector. Then use piggy back spade connectors to power each of the two horns supplied. Heat shrink and cloth tape to protect.
Brown is OEM negative and Black/yellow positive on T6.1

May need to make a bracket to hold the two horns in the correct orientation.

Can anyone see any problems with my plan

Thanks

Nope, did it with MY21 candy white and bronze 6.1 FWD 204 and also on MY23 Black 4M 6.1
You don’t need to make a bracket.
They will fit both into the same bracket, might need bending a few degrees, but the bolt will go back in. And toot away.
Used it today, to a lady in a A class Merc who didn’t see me and wanted to go from slip road to lane 1, then straight into me in lane 2.
The twin tones got her attention in 0.5 of a second

 

[denz1968]

Nope, did it with MY21 candy white and bronze 6.1 FWD 204 and also on MY23 Black 4M 6.1
You don’t need to make a bracket.
They will fit both into the same bracket, might need bending a few degrees, but the bolt will go back in. And toot away.
Used it today, to a lady in a A class Merc who didn’t see me and wanted to go from slip road to lane 1, then straight into me in lane 2.
The twin tones got her attention in 0.5 of a second

Thanks @Californication69 any pics of yours mounted?

 

[Californication69]

Thanks @Californication69 any pics of yours mounted?

 

[Bav]

Hey @Samro. Do you still have the QWORK "cheapo" horn fitted to your work van? Has it stood the test of of time and is it a noticeable upgrade from the factory-fit horn? Just wondering if it's worth going cheap or better to go PIAA. Thanks.