V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019

[Grim Reaper]

That doesn't alter the fact that their own documents say what they say. And without specific requirements written down, their seemingly arbitrary decisions are not consistent with their requirements.
What's your interpretation of a campervan? What's their interpretation of a campervan? Is it something like the VW California? or something like the VW California XXL?

 

[oldiebut goodie]

I don't have an interpretation because that would be totally irrelevant to the point at issue here.
Their interpretation of campervan is that they define it as a motor caravan as I keep saying. They do not have a means of changing the body type if there has been no change to the body.
What is required is a separate category in the vehicle particulars to reflect the internal changes. As to whether internal changes would then enable different speed limits ( which is the main reason for people wanting motor caravan shewn followed by ease of access to insurance cover) as in a change from goods vehicle to passenger vehicle would most probably need amendment to legislation.

 

[Skyliner33]

It seems to be a real can of worms at the moment. I wonder if there is something else in the pipeline.

On a slight divergence I can not understand why my van with just a rib bed n the back can only do reduced speed limits, however ones that have been converted and maybe are right at the maximum weight limits etc are allowed to go 10mph faster with the same brakes. In an emergency, even stopping from the same speed they would be more difficult to stop (take further) and cause more damage due to the added weight (momentum). Seems a bit arse about T.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I agree, the basis for the increased speed limit would appear to be the fact that the load space, being now taken up with cupboards, bed frames and various other items, can no longer be filled with 1000Kg of bean tins (or other goods) and likely only ever be filled with four (or less) 95Kg bodies.
If the load space is thus restricted in its carrying ability (by virtue of the fact that these fittings are not removable) then the speed limit increase should be allowed.

 

[Skyliner33]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something. Take a T30 for example.

I thought this meant that its maximum mass, including all contents, driver etc was 3000kg. Now a fully kitted out camper with all the stuff and contents came to 3000kg. No more could be added, even though there was space.
If the non fully converted van is 2500kg (for eg) it could carry maximum of 500kg goods. Both are now at 3000kg but the camper can go 10mph faster?

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Usually a van the size of a T6 gets loaded without the loaded goods being secured, just bundled in, maybe that is the thinking behind it?
I got reported to the police once by a numbskull, who had to brake sharply behind me when I had to brake sharply myself, because he got hit in the back by an unsecured tyre that he was carrying. As if it were my fault! Of course that didn't go anywhere as a complaint.

 

[Neuon2003]

@oldiebut goodie

Thanks for the responses and additional information, especially the SI research (The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002).

I have found some suggestion that DVLA have used the body description as proof of the Basic IVA Type Approval they provide for motor caravans and hence is not just a visual description (see DVSA Technical Officer Type Approval explanation below), and further evidence (see FOI) that the DVLA's post May 19 epithany for register data purity (based on subjective external similarity with a stylised motor home) is risible.

In the latest FOI answers DVLA relies on a June 2011 meeting, for which complete records no longer exist - though they provide what purports to be a surviving remnant - to justify the appearance restrictions. No clue as to why it took them from Jun 11 to May 19 to actually implement the restrictive use of "motor caravan" as a body type description. Given the implications this motor caravan revisionism has (e.g. speed limits and limiting Type Approval for motor caravan conversions) you would have thought that 8 years was long enough for them to have come up with a credible solution which was transparent.

As mentioned earlier (#248), for the private individual, it seems the only practical way to unveil, de-cloak and clarify the DVLA obfuscation, short of a JR, is to use the DVLA complaints process and more FOI requests.

References:

Definition of Motor caravan
The Motor Vehicles (Type Approval) (Great Britain) Regulations 1984
“motor caravan” means a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation for its users;
The Motor Vehicles (Type Approval) (Great Britain) Regulations 1984

DfT Definition of Motor Caravan (in the current DfT Guidance document)
"The following is taken from the DFT website now in the National Archives."...

[Archived] How to import your vehicle permanently into Great Britain

Guidance on Conversion
[Archived] First published 2011: Registering a DIY motor caravan
Registering a DIY caravan - Publications - GOV.UK

[Archived] Updated 22 April 2016 - new title is: Convert a vehicle into a motorhome
Convert a vehicle into a motorhome

Last updated 1 May 19: Convert a vehicle into a motorhome
Convert a vehicle into a motorhome

Motor caravan search of the national archives
Results for "Motor caravan" | Search - UK Government Web Archive

Type Approval

DVSA Technical Officer explanation 2016
VW T4 Forum - VW T5 Forum - View Single Post - Van now a motorhome but still classed as N1

The Motor Vehicles (Type Approval) (Great Britain) Regulations 1984
The Motor Vehicles (Type Approval) (Great Britain) Regulations 1984

[Archived] Guidance - Motor caravans: changes to construction requirements from 2012 - Published 1 July 2012
Motor caravans: changes to construction requirements from 2012

Speed limits
Speed limits

Speed limits for vehicles of certain classes are set out in schedule ‪6 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984‬. Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984

Freedom of Information releases from DVLA

Camper van registration data
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/camper-van-registrations-data-foir3788

[Partial] Specific requirements to address the V5C body type amendment to Motor Caravan component of external appearance
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/specific_requirements_to_address#incoming-1411900

[Refused] Data in relation to applications for V5C body type amendment of a motor vehicle to "Motor Caravan".
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/data_in_relation_to_applications#incoming-1410638

 

[Grim Reaper]

Reply from Steve Clark at Brit Stops

Many thanks for your enquiry.

Obviously we can't comment on how DVLA make their decisions, but we are happy for anyone who wants to use Brit Stops getting in touch so we can check if their van would suit our scheme.

Kind regards,

Steve

 

[SENTINEL]

Reply from Steve Clark at Brit Stops

Many thanks for your enquiry.

Obviously we can't comment on how DVLA make their decisions, but we are happy for anyone who wants to use Brit Stops getting in touch so we can check if their van would suit our scheme.

Kind regards,

Steve

Oh, this could be disappointing- so many suitably equipped vehicles but so many without the magic classification "motor caravan".

 

[Grim Reaper]

I've just had an online chat with Louise from the Caravan & Motorhome club, she says that whilst some vans may be turned away from their sites (a works van with a mattress in the back) if they satisfy pretty much the DfT's requirements for change to Motor Caravan then they will be allowed in. No requirement for the V5 to be shown as Motor Caravan.

 

[Ads_Essex]

I've just had an online chat with Louise from the Caravan & Motorhome club, she says that whilst some vans may be turned away from their sites (a works van with a mattress in the back) if they satisfy pretty much the DfT's requirements for change to Motor Caravan then they will be allowed in. No requirement for the V5 to be shown as Motor Caravan.

That’s good. A nice common sense approach.

I've noticed this on the BritStops website..

Unfortunately Brit Stops is not suitable for caravans, unconverted vans, cars or any form of tent. Your van should be classed as a "motor caravan" on your V5C document.

And how would Brit Stops know what your classification is, anyway?

 

[Grim Reaper]

Good question, it doesn't appear to describe the Body Type on an online DVLA Vehicle Check.
I have just noticed that my V5 already shows it as a Van/Side Windows, it was converted from a Panel Van by Salop Vans so I have to assume that they have changed it, however, it still shows as having only 3 seats when there is seating for 5 currently.??

 

[Dilbert]

And how would Brit Stops know what your classification is, anyway?

I don't think the average pub will know.......

 

[j4ckal]

Good question, it doesn't appear to describe the Body Type on an online DVLA Vehicle Check.
I have just noticed that my V5 already shows it as a Van/Side Windows, it was converted from a Panel Van by Salop Vans so I have to assume that they have changed it, however, it still shows as having only 3 seats when there is seating for 5 currently.??

As I and another poster said earlier in this thread, mine is (was) a panel van and has always been van/side windows on the V5. I'm guessing Salop vans haven't done anything with your log book as the no. of seats is wrong.

 

[oldiebut goodie]

Mine was just a new panel van without windows and 3 seats and the registration was van/side windows before conversion. Proof that DVLA make it up as they go along? They obviously don't care that the emergency services will mis-identify the vehicle in this case! Their argument that it needs to be readily identifiable to those that need such information doesn't hold water at any point.

 

[Kwp0906]

I have experience of my V5 not accurately reflecting the vehicle, and it is usually down to the manufacturer/dealership not sending the correct details to the DVLA. If a panel van is listed as van with windows on the V5 it's probably because VW provided the wrong information at registration.

 

[Loz]

Latest on the Cali forum on this, Californias that have been registered as MPV is a mistake according to VWCV UK and a result of dealers being given the wrong code to input into the system during first registration.
Doesn’t help with conversions but removes one suspicion that DVLA were trying to stop Motorhome registration for vans.

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

Latest on the Cali forum on this, Californias that have been registered as MPV is a mistake according to VWCV UK and a result of dealers being given the wrong code to input into the system during first registration.
Doesn’t help with conversions but removes one suspicion that DVLA were trying to stop Motorhome registration for vans.

Good luck to any California owners who are now trying to get their MPV’s V5 changed to Motor caravan!
Probably end up with a 7.5t HGV

 

[Kwp0906]

A letter from VW explaining their error should satisfy the dvla to change the V5...however if they do change it to motor caravan it does somewhat make a mockery of the current situation.

 

[True Romance]

Reply from Steve Clark at Brit Stops

Many thanks for your enquiry.

Obviously we can't comment on how DVLA make their decisions, but we are happy for anyone who wants to use Brit Stops getting in touch so we can check if their van would suit our scheme.

Kind regards,

Steve

Oh come on you're concerned that a pub will turn you away from potentially buying food and drinks just because your in a converted van? Can't imagine for a second they can afford to be that picky and would be thankful of the trade.