Van Speed Limit?
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Great info being shared, thanks. However I am not convinced. Just spent a lockdown morning reading the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. This lays down safety standards & vehicle classes. Vehicles are given categories M1 to O4 - this ultimately determines speed limits. The Gov.Uk Speed Limits guidance doesn’t use these codes (But it would help), instead is uses its own words and phraseology of which ‘Motor Caravan’ is one. Conversely, DVLA also uses its own phrases (Van with windows), which doesn’t appear in Speed limits guidance. I think anyone reading Motor Caravan on their V5 assumes they fit into the ‘Motorhomes or Motor Caravans (Not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)’ [higher speed limits], they don’t necessarily. It’s clearly the category that will get picked up on ANPR, Ave Speed Camaras, DART etc. So if you’re Cat N1, your vehicle was classed at manufacture as a Goods Vehicle (Lower limits), this can’t be changed without reassessment (IVA) and issue of new VIN. If you’re M1 - happy days higher limits. A DVLA letter might work with roadside policeman, but be more difficult contesting a NIP. What needs to change is this Cat M1-O4 needs to be specified on the Gov.Uk Speed limits site for clarity!! (After thought this is tied to EU Regs fm 2012 - it might now not apply !)
@moomin-j. Thanks for that but I understood from reading the above that Oldrat had actually written to DVLA using some clever words to elicit a ‘get out of jail’ letter of his own from them. It was those words that I was after rather than the DVLA letter that you linked to. Perhaps I misunderstood.
@Ayjay Sorry I banged on a bit at the risk of being controversial. I think in times past the tracking of vehicles on the roads has been less joined up (DVLA v Legislation v Police Enforcement). Newer technologies mean that automatic detection and prosecution will happen without people in the loop. Ultimately we have to know what our V5 limits are, I think that is ambiguous at the moment.
@keeffe
With due respect, I disagree.
1. I am ex traffic police (15yrs) but always happy to be corrected.
2. As long as the vehicle has the appropriate permanent fitments, (bed table etc etc) car speed limits apply irrespective of the group shown on the log book.
3. Getting stopped by a cop on the street for driving too quickly shouldn’t be a problem, as usually it’s Traffic cops that do speed enforcement and tend to know their stuff. It’s other non traffic officers that might need persuading. Hence a copy of the letter comes in handy.
4. If the process is automatic, say with a Gatso camera, then the camera is likely to check vehicle type with the DVLA data base. NB The DVLA themselves readily concede that it’s how the vehicle is configured that determines the speed limit, and NOT their database which uses external appearance as a definition.
Unfortunately if your speed trips an automatic camera ie a GATSO type camera, think gantry or fixed roadside cameras, you may likely be (wrongly) issued with a NIP automatically, and then it’ll be up to you to defend - usually with pics and invoices of the conversion. There have been cases where ignorant drivers have just pleaded guilty and have been convicted
4. It wasn’t my letter but one I copied (off here??)
With due respect, I disagree.
1. I am ex traffic police (15yrs) but always happy to be corrected.
2. As long as the vehicle has the appropriate permanent fitments, (bed table etc etc) car speed limits apply irrespective of the group shown on the log book.
3. Getting stopped by a cop on the street for driving too quickly shouldn’t be a problem, as usually it’s Traffic cops that do speed enforcement and tend to know their stuff. It’s other non traffic officers that might need persuading. Hence a copy of the letter comes in handy.
4. If the process is automatic, say with a Gatso camera, then the camera is likely to check vehicle type with the DVLA data base. NB The DVLA themselves readily concede that it’s how the vehicle is configured that determines the speed limit, and NOT their database which uses external appearance as a definition.
Unfortunately if your speed trips an automatic camera ie a GATSO type camera, think gantry or fixed roadside cameras, you may likely be (wrongly) issued with a NIP automatically, and then it’ll be up to you to defend - usually with pics and invoices of the conversion. There have been cases where ignorant drivers have just pleaded guilty and have been convicted
4. It wasn’t my letter but one I copied (off here??)
@Ayjay - no special or clever words just the complete text from @Oldrat 's letter in his post did it for me.
He just has a copy of the letter in his Crafter in case he needs to show it.
I just thought the same letter, but with my details would be better.
I am sure he will be along shortly to confirm.
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@Oldrat Ack. I’ll be driving mine within Goods Vehicle speed limits, but have printed a copy of letter as a reference anyway. I still think that Speed limits Gov.uk vehicle descriptions could be better defined.
I agree with that .... see post below!!!
@Keefff @Oldrat + All,
I have scanned some of the comments on here re: Speed limits .... and thought I would come and draw on the latest expert knowledge!
Trying to understand the Speed limit via the DVLA etc. for my T6 T32 described as a Van/Side Windows as per the Reg Doc is proving a challenge! The Van has a "Mass in service" = 2069 and a "REVENUE Weight" = 3200kg.
FYI it has been professionally FULLY converted etc. 5 windows in the back etc. RnR Bed, Full kitchen etc., and I am up to speed (I think!) on DVLA i.e. as it is a PopTop, DVLA will not change Classification to Motor Caravan.
To play it safe should I be driving at 50mph in a 60mph limit, 60mph in a 70mph - Dual Carriageway, and & 70mph on Motorways?
Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated. Staysafe all. Paul
I have scanned some of the comments on here re: Speed limits .... and thought I would come and draw on the latest expert knowledge!
Trying to understand the Speed limit via the DVLA etc. for my T6 T32 described as a Van/Side Windows as per the Reg Doc is proving a challenge! The Van has a "Mass in service" = 2069 and a "REVENUE Weight" = 3200kg.
FYI it has been professionally FULLY converted etc. 5 windows in the back etc. RnR Bed, Full kitchen etc., and I am up to speed (I think!) on DVLA i.e. as it is a PopTop, DVLA will not change Classification to Motor Caravan.
To play it safe should I be driving at 50mph in a 60mph limit, 60mph in a 70mph - Dual Carriageway, and & 70mph on Motorways?
Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated. Staysafe all. Paul
@Bluey a very grey area isn’t it. I play it like this, my V5 states Body Type: Van/Side Windows, Taxation Class: Light Goods Vehicle, Vehicle Category: N1. It is a professionally converted campervan. I drive at the lower speed limits. I believe automatic cameras ANPR etc would trigger a NIP if I didn’t. Maybe I could appeal afterwards, maybe I’d be successful maybe not - nobody has been there yet (I don’t think).
This camper now sold on 26th Jan @Dieseldonkey and as you say is a Motor Caravan. I changed category before DVLA became difficult. The new one is the Van/with side windows. That is why I was asking. Hope that makes it clear.
Looks like I will be slowing down. Thanks as always. PAUL.
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@Keefff Sounds like I will be doing what you're doing until this gets flushed out some more. My categories on the V5 are the same as yours. Thanks for coming back so quickly. Cheers Paul
Unfortunately not - see below. Thanks
Hello Gang,
Forgive me everyone for it has been many years since I last posted... However today it finally happened and the NIP came through the post for 72 on a dual carriageway.
For the sake of clarity, I drive a T32 Highline Kombi and I am the Thogg that's shown as a guest in the early stages of this thread.
I called and spoke to the safety camera partnership and they requested I email details of my vehicle, the V5 showing mass in service, photos of the windows etc. I also included a screen shot of the VW tech specs page where they state the 90% tank of fuel and the 75 KG driver weight.
Long story short.. my van is 2134kg Mass in service. I have successfully argued that my van is dual purpose and the NIP has been cancelled.
It can be done if you meet the definition.
Stay safe all.
Forgive me everyone for it has been many years since I last posted... However today it finally happened and the NIP came through the post for 72 on a dual carriageway.
For the sake of clarity, I drive a T32 Highline Kombi and I am the Thogg that's shown as a guest in the early stages of this thread.
I called and spoke to the safety camera partnership and they requested I email details of my vehicle, the V5 showing mass in service, photos of the windows etc. I also included a screen shot of the VW tech specs page where they state the 90% tank of fuel and the 75 KG driver weight.
Long story short.. my van is 2134kg Mass in service. I have successfully argued that my van is dual purpose and the NIP has been cancelled.
It can be done if you meet the definition.
Stay safe all.
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