What's my van worth??

[KR.]

Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan (motor home)

QUOTE
The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans.
UNQUOTE

Okay, so classification has NO effect on speed limits and is ONLY used for appearance/identification. If my van has the internal features (check) then I can still use it for the purposes of a 'motor caravan'.

Ergo motorcaravan speed limits apply - 60mph on a single carriageway, 70mph on a dual carriageway.
Does my reasoning hold? I know it doesn't (!) I'd like someone to tell me why though...

I'm picking up a newly converted van this week and the thought of, for example, Stirling to Inverness at 10mph less than car speeds under average speed cameras for the best part of 140 miles is giving me the fear. Has anyone had any luck so far with the DVLA and changing the body type?

 

[cgw]

Hi,
What are the pro's/con's of having your van conversion classified as a motorhome by the DVLA?
My conversion was completed in 2018, so has already been reclassified, but i would like to know the answers, particularly in regards to insurance & speed limits?
i have searched the forum for specific answers to my questions, but not found the correct answers.

Cheers
Colin

 

[The Bear78]

What did your van start as?

 

[Urbanfox]

Well if its a Motorhome on the V5 you can do 60, 70, 70 speed wise. If its a Van with side windows then methinks it 50, 60 , 70 even if its kitted out as a motorhome but I think this is yet to be tested with PC Plod.
I'm sure others will be along to add to my comments.

 

[Urbanfox]

You would now need to fit a High Hard top, not a pop up to qualify as a Motorhome. Seems its all to do with Tax so they have dug their heels in and there is little or no chance of getting motorhome on the V5 with a standard conversion.
I stick to the 50, 60 70 rule just to avoid the hassle with PC Plod because all he sees when you race past is " A Van With Windows" so will issue a speeding ticket as such!!!!!

 

[Loz]

Please read the already massive thread on this subject rather than start a duplicate.

 

[Pete C]

Here: V5 Documentation - Dvla Rule Change For Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019

Pete

 

[KR.]

If I see the police then I'll abide by the van speed limits, otherwise I'll take my chances I think. I can't believe I'm now going to be the ****** with a queue of traffic behind him wanting me to pull over. Two months ago in the same model converted van I could do car speed limits and now I can't? Meh.

 

[Dieseldonkey]

Remember average speed cameras aren't PC Plod. Neither, these days, are many camera van operators. The recording processes are audited and subject to accountability. They dont have PC Plods discretion.

If your vehicle passes the entry camera where ANPR reads your plate and you go on to arrive at the exit camera ahead of schedule, then if the processing used in that particular area is automated, your reg number is simply compared to the relevant populated DVLA database fields. So if your van falls in the 50,60,70 category, a NIP gets spat out and is despatched to the keepers address. Not much human involvement.

 

[cgtmiles]

I’m in the same boat, although I’m not sure it’s going to be an issue in a fully loaded camper converted 102bhp! It is interesting though that they say the body type does not define the speed limits but then use this to identify the vehicle limit!

It does qualify as a dual purpose vehicle though. The question is:

How do you get it officially recognised as a dual purpose vehicle?

 

[KR.]

I'd like to see someone get a ticket from a camera and take it to court, arguing that their converted VW transporter is a campervan and use the DVLA's own words as proof.
I don't think I'm up for it though ..

 

[Salty Spuds]

Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan (motor home)

QUOTE
The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.

It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans.
UNQUOTE

Okay, so classification has NO effect on speed limits and is ONLY used for appearance/identification. If my van has the internal features (check) then I can still use it for the purposes of a 'motor caravan'.

Ergo motorcaravan speed limits apply - 60mph on a single carriageway, 70mph on a dual carriageway.
Does my reasoning hold? I know it doesn't (!) I'd like someone to tell me why though...

I'm picking up a newly converted van this week and the thought of, for example, Stirling to Inverness at 10mph less than car speeds under average speed cameras for the best part of 140 miles is giving me the fear. Has anyone had any luck so far with the DVLA and changing the body type?

Unless I’ve miss read/miss understood, then there’s something wrong with the DVLA statement regarding speed limits. Assuming you’re starting out with a panel van/van with windows & ending up with a “Motor Caravan”, then the speed limits are affected. Your “Van” is restricted to 60mph in a Dual Carriageway, whereas your “Motor Caravan” (assuming it’s unladen weight doesn’t exceed 3050kg) can go tonking along at 70mph.

 

[cgtmiles]

and so it begins again...

Nothing adds up with this apart from the realisation that if you make the VED massively more expensive for one type of vehicle you need to make sure that people don’t use a loop hole to avoid paying it. I wonder whether the number of vehicles first registered as motor caravans has been impacted by this and if so whether it’s just from a drop in sales for the limited number of suppliers of campervans that can do this as people are buying cheaper to tax converted vans.

 

[JasonW]

my understanding is unless you can get the van 're-classified as a motor caravan then the lower speed limit applies.

once 're-classified as a motor caravan the higher speed limit applies....

But seeing as the DVLA has stopped us classifying our converted vans unless you have a high top fitted then we're required to tootle along at the lower speeds....

I think it needs a petition or van gridlock in the centre of london on a grand scale to help bring change to this archaic law....

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

Sigh
I am with @Salty Spuds on this one, if it looks like a Campervan and smells like a Campervan then it’s a Campervan for speed limit purposes and in the unlikely event that I get an NIP I shall send my evidence to the court probably with the published guidance from DVLA.
After the carnage of the thread of death on DVLA classification I stopped worrying about this after they published that guidance.
In fact and having just done Inverness to North Devon and back it was not nearly as painful as it might be as if you travel at a genuine GPS speed plus 5% rather than speedo speed. You will be doing what most of the cars drivers do anyway on the A9 while they think they are at 60.

 

[Phil_G]

my understanding is unless you can get the van 're-classified as a motor caravan then the lower speed limit applies.

Then sorry, with the greatest respect and please dont take this the wrong way, but you have either misunderstood or not read the DVLAs statement. .
As the DVLA have said over & over, speed limits depend on classification, not body type.
The body type field field does not depict the classification, only a visual description. They even explain it as "how the vehicle looks in traffic".
If your camper satisfies the criteria for a motor caravan, then thats what it is. Actually, its "if the owner is satisfied that it meets the criteria" which legally is less rigid. That is its classification.

Once 're-classified as a motor caravan the higher speed limit applies....

They're not reclassifying it. They're changing the body type to more accurately depict what the vehicle looks like in traffic. This is all explained in their announcement. If your camper fully meets the 'motor caravan' spec, which doesnt exclude pop tops, then its a camper and car limits apply regardless of body type. They have emphasised this over & over! Not having a high roof and graphics does not now demote your poptop camper to a van, but they will not change the body type unless it does have them. Because visually, in traffic, with the poptop down, it looks like a van! Blame 'stealth' campers!

The problem comes when fully automated systems try to find the appropriate limit for a vehicle. Until now the body type was sufficient but as of now there is no facility for an online 100% confirmation in the case of a motor caravan. That is the problem The limits havent changed, but automatic cameras are no longer using definitive data to apply limits. Nowhere is the result of your conversion officially recorded, so the automatic systems cannot look it up. They could use MID data but many campervans are not insured as such so its not a reliable source. This is one of those stories that will have to go to court before anything changes!
Cheers
Phil

 

[Loz]

Flat earth society springs to mind.

 

[Richard Wilderspin]

You would now need to fit a High Hard top, not a pop up to qualify as a Motorhome. Seems its all to do with Tax so they have dug their heels in and there is little or no chance of getting motorhome on the V5 with a standard conversion.
I stick to the 50, 60 70 rule just to avoid the hassle with PC Plod because all he sees when you race past is " A Van With Windows" so will issue a speeding ticket as such!!!!!

I appreciate the Cali is manufactured as a camper and so doesn’t suffer from the same issues, but there’s no high top there and they look identical (or near as). I presume there’s no method to DVLA’s madness on that score then? Anyone successfully had their camper registered as a camper since this ridiculous change. I.e. argues the point and got the DVLA to agree to register as a camper?

 

[Dieseldonkey]

Unfortunately its what's on the DVLA database that results in a speeding prosecution being initiated.

I'm sure somebody posted that there Cali is now getting registered as an M1 MPV. Same as the Shuttle and Caravelle. Therefore it's not subject to 50,60,70. Good reason to use a Shuttle as your base vehicle for camper conversion. Doesn't matter if you dont get a high top fitted. It started life as an M1, MPV, diesel car so just leave it as an M1, MPV, diesel car.

Said it before. The whole commercial vehicle speed limit thing is out dated and needs revamped and simplified. To many bonkers anomalies. Mechanically identical vehicles, subject to different limits. Needs major influential bodies to start lobbying for legislation change. AA, RAC, RFA......T6F.

 

[Dieseldonkey]

Flat earth society springs to mind.

Apparently, there's members in every corner of the globe.