Wheels Siezed On
- Thread starter Johnod17
- Start date
Just an observation on some of the comments in this thread, I have ran VW cars for years and have seen the wheels stuck on Golfs many times.
The issue is the central spigot being steel fitting into the central hole of the wheel, this is what holds the wheel central to the hub when fitting the wheel (the wheel bolts also do this when tight)
I always put a light smear of anti seize compound around the centre hole in the wheel and never have trouble removing them.
Please do not put any grease (or anything else) where the flat part of the wheel meets the hub.
I would recommend a quick spray of GT85 or something similar that will dry (not engine or gear oil) on the wheel bolt threads and bearing surface prior to installing to ensure that you achieve the correct clamping force (& use a torque wrench)
Sorry to sound critical of the posts above as I am sure that nobody meant plastering grease everywhere between the wheel and hub but I don’t want anyone to think this is a good idea.
The issue is the central spigot being steel fitting into the central hole of the wheel, this is what holds the wheel central to the hub when fitting the wheel (the wheel bolts also do this when tight)
I always put a light smear of anti seize compound around the centre hole in the wheel and never have trouble removing them.
Please do not put any grease (or anything else) where the flat part of the wheel meets the hub.
I would recommend a quick spray of GT85 or something similar that will dry (not engine or gear oil) on the wheel bolt threads and bearing surface prior to installing to ensure that you achieve the correct clamping force (& use a torque wrench)
Sorry to sound critical of the posts above as I am sure that nobody meant plastering grease everywhere between the wheel and hub but I don’t want anyone to think this is a good idea.
I'll not be spraying any GT85 lubricant on my bolt threads thank you! The clamp loads are calculated using dry, clean threads. I'm also interested why you wouldn't have anything on the hub surface - we're not glueing the wheels on.
I wouldn’t put anything on the wheel surface because it creates a surface film that allows the wheel to crush it as time goes on resulting in a reduced clamping force.
Re GT85, it isn’t a real lubricating oil and breaks under pressure, it also dries out fairly quickly so it leaves a bolt tight without the lasting lubricating effect that can help it loosen, as I said always use a torque wrench and don’t use a modern high tech lubricating oil or Wd40 which is silicone based.
By the way, I’m not telling people what to do, just giving the benefit of my experiences, if you don’t agree then do your research and ....
GT85 is a lubricant and the manufacturer claims it leaves a coating of PTFE once dry. I know people who use it with success to lubricate every moving part on their MTBs (for the record, I don't).
The issue with lubricating threads is that it changes the force going through the bolt when tightened to a specific torque value. If anyone wants to confirm this, look up 'young's modulus lubricated threads'. When reading any literature on this, bear in mind our bolts have rotating collars under the head which is taken into the calculation.
Whilst I don't doubt for a second that you've been doing this successfully for years on Golfs and not had a single stripped thread or sheared wheel bolt, from an engineering perspective you shouldn't do it.
The issue with lubricating threads is that it changes the force going through the bolt when tightened to a specific torque value. If anyone wants to confirm this, look up 'young's modulus lubricated threads'. When reading any literature on this, bear in mind our bolts have rotating collars under the head which is taken into the calculation.
Whilst I don't doubt for a second that you've been doing this successfully for years on Golfs and not had a single stripped thread or sheared wheel bolt, from an engineering perspective you shouldn't do it.
Leaving the wheel bolt thread for a moment, I'm a fan of this GT85 stuff. It does contain an element of PTFE or similar, and I use it for protecting the surfaces of my motorbikes. It washes easily and stops the dirt drying into black wrinkle finishes etc.
Back to threads now, and I agree with @Mooncat in that I was always taught as an apprentice never to lubricate threads that were torqued. The flat mating surface of a wheel against the hub would be fine I'm sure, and looking at the wheel hub I'm pretty sure the central hole is the area that would corrode and bind the most, and for that I'm pretty sure any of the Copaslip/Ease style of anti seize would suffice. They should come off once a year as a minimum anyway, shouldn't they..?
Back to threads now, and I agree with @Mooncat in that I was always taught as an apprentice never to lubricate threads that were torqued. The flat mating surface of a wheel against the hub would be fine I'm sure, and looking at the wheel hub I'm pretty sure the central hole is the area that would corrode and bind the most, and for that I'm pretty sure any of the Copaslip/Ease style of anti seize would suffice. They should come off once a year as a minimum anyway, shouldn't they..?
I think you have missed the point, the most important aspect of fitting a wheel is both it being central and achieving a minimum clamping force to the hub that prevents movement, the torque figure is just a number that makes this minimum clamping force figure achievable to the masses.
I also learned during my apprenticeship not to lubricate either the thread or head of a bolt that’s being torqued, that is standard engineering practice, but we are talking a very specific type of fitting here with a conical bearing surface to help facilitate the minimum clamping force needed to keep everything in one place.
My own specialist area is large commercial vehicles where wheel loss is the subject of much debate, the current advice is to lubricate threads and bearing surfaces contained in the nut with a light engine oil although I wouldn’t personally do this as modern engine oils just never go away. I personally favour a dusting of GT85 because it isn’t particularly efficient as a lubricant so helps the install but doesn’t work on the disassembly (when you dont want it)
Anyway, I’m not telling people what to do, just giving the benefit of my own personal and professional experiences, as long as they stay on and come off when you want them too then you ‘ain’t doing too much wrong.
