Dellmassive`s Camper Van Adventure

[Drive Wayne]

what 2kw inverter have you got and here is it fitted?

got any pics?

It's a Chinese PowerStar, combining the EHU Gubbins. Always worked well, no issues. They make a 3000watt one too. Nice LCD to see what's going on, easy to program. £300 ish if I needed another.
PU still sell them, they must be ok!
The Roamer 230 upright and the inverter go end to end under the wardrobe false floor.
Photos, when I get to wire in my new poptop LED string lights into the Cerbo relays.

 

[Drive Wayne]

what 2kw inverter have you got and here is it fitted?

got any pics?

One of these, it was £300, naturally now a bit more...

Power Star 12V 2000W Low Frequency Pure Sine Wave Inverter (Peak 6000W) 70A Charger | Eco Power Direct

Power Star 3000W Low Frequency Pure Sine Wave Inverter 12V (Peak 9000W) 90A Charger

www.ecopowerdirect.co.uk

 

[Skyliner33]

looks like we U turning . . . . Again !!! - (inverter)

after a slightly energetic discussion this morning with the Chief Advisor. . . CA


it seems that the 2000va (1600w cont`) wont be enough power.


we need to run some 240v stuff. . . .

1500w coffee pod machine,
1000w kettle,
800w microwave,
small load electricals.

BUT. . .


the problem is that now the Chief Advisor is used to the ECOFLOW DELTA2 MAX -


- that has a 3100w output(max with x-boost) - that we have been using for the last year.
we now have to deal with 2000w hairdryers, . . . . . .

3kw fast boil kettles
2kw toaster
2kw air fryer?

or even just the 1800w coffee machine + 1000w kettle (2800w together) needs to be catered for. .


the discussion went like this.

+++

Me - were are loosing the EF D2 MAX and using this 1600w Victron inverter instead. but you have to use one thing at a time.

CA - whats the point in having electric if i cant make a coffee while boiling the kettle for tea?

Me - well boil the kettle first, then make the coffee after.

CA - why cant i use my 2kw hairdryer? - it worked on the EF battery box.?

Me - well, do you need to use a hair dryer.?

CA - i want a microwave

Me - sure, no problem. . . well get a small 800W one

CA - why cant i use this 3kw fast boil kettle?

Me - why cant you use the 1kw kettle we have already?

CA - because it takes 3times as long !

Me - oh right, fair enough

CA - why cant i use the microwave, while blow-drying my hair and making a cup of tea? etc etc etc .

Me - i give up

+++

so . . it seams that the Ecoflow delta2 MAX was too good and has spoiled us.


now the plan is to loose it from the van and go INVERTER + BATTERY, looks like i need to up the power.


The ROAMER SB230 G4 can deal with a 3000w inverter. . . so that what we are looking at.

the 1600w Victron 2000va wont be enough

the Renogy 2000w inverter i have wont be enough. . .



that leaves me with two options. . .


the Victron 3000va (2400w, 6kw peak) - £800

or

and the RENOGY 3000w (6kw Peak) - £250


View attachment 279999






View attachment 280000



.
+++++++++++++++++++++


The first consideration is the power:
Renogy 3/6kw vs Victron 2.4/6kw



Then the size & weight:
Renogy 482*220*92 mm @ 6.4Kg vs Victron 533 x 285 x 150 mm (12 V) @ 19kgs


Then the cost:
Renogy £260 vs Victron £800


idle power consumption:
Renogy 1.5A vs Victron 1.5A


other factors:
having the Vic inverter on VRM & the victron app is cool.
no app for the renogy.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


location wise. . . i think the inverter is going to have to go here, to keep the DC cables as short as possible.


View attachment 280002View attachment 280003View attachment 280004


its looking like a tight fit behind the seat. .


so on the bassis that:

the Renogy is thinner, cheaper, lighter and may blend in better. . .

and that its 3-6kw range should be powerful enough for anything now. .


this happened.


+++++++++++++++++++++

View attachment 280008View attachment 280009




+++++++++++++++++++

im sure at some point im going to regret this. . .

but i have the 1kw Renogy in the van, its been in there for years, its been faultless and runs everything - im confident that it will be good.


but i feel the pull of #TeamBlue very strongly. . . its just so MASSIVE, not a problem in a Crafter, but in a T6 . . Hmmm.




anyway onwards and upwards.



.

This post has got me thinking. I was going to go with a Victron inverter but the savings of weight in particular not discounting the cash saving has got me seriously thinking about the Renogy. I doubt I need 3kW but it’s future proofing.

 

[Green Giant]

Then we need to sort out the sink and Fridge. . .

Transporter HQ – Camper Fridge Freezer – Alpicool THQ50 – 50L – 12v/24v – With LG Compressor​

£330.95 – £389.95

Transporter HQ - Camper Fridge Freezer - Alpicool THQ50 - 50L - 12v/24v - With LG Compressor

The Alpicool fridge with 50l capacity gives you the freedom in your vehicle to keep yourself stocked up with all the essentials for any adventure.

transporterhq.co.uk

View attachment 279882

THQ Alpicool THQ50 12v/24v 50L Camper Fridge – with LG Compressor​

The Alpicool THQ50 Camper Fridge uses a high quality + high performance LG Compressor meaning it runs quieter and more efficiently than a lot of similar fridges on the market. This fridge works with what’s become the industry standard dimensions to fit most camper kitchen set up’s. These are similar to the more expensive fridges like the Dometic RX50, plus this Alpicool THQ50L is package with more features.

The THQ Alpicool THQ50 features a clever door hinge system, meaning it can open outwards both left and right which is also removable making it a lot easier for cleaning. This feature means you can fit it in many more kitchen layouts and in far more compact areas. The removable door also makes it easier to remove or reinstall the freezer section. Removing this gives you the option of having a large fridge space without the freezer section. The other huge benefit to the door opening is you have access from ways. So whether you’re reaching for the milk to make a cup of tea from the back of the camper, or chilling in your front swivelled seat and want to grab a cool beer, its easier to access the fridge from either direction.

With the Alpicool having the Dual Climate option, you can store a range of different food and drink products at a temperature which suits the whole party.

Features:​

• Digital LED Control Panel
• Dual Temperature
• High Performance LG Compressor (quiet and more efficient operation)
• Internal Durable Wire Shelves
• Stylish Brushed Black in Colour with Removable Trim-able front panel
• Reversible Door (opening left or right + removable)
• Secure Door Catch preventing opening while driving
• 3 Stage Battery Protection System (Automatically prevents the fridge from draining the vehicle battery)
• 2 Year Warranty

Technical Specification:​

• Model: THQ50 – with Uprated LG Compressor
• Capacity: 50 Litres
• Dimensions: D479mm x W380mm x H536mm
• N.W: 16.2kg
• Operation: DC12/24v
• Rated Power Unit: 60w
• Rated Current: AC 1.2A-0.5A, DC 5.0A/2.5A
• Chilling Temperatures: Fridge 0 – 8 °c, Freezer -12 – -20 °c

This is the fridge that quite a few of us have had issues with the temperature going haywire, I hope they have sorted out the issue, but I guess you are the man that could sort this problem out if it arises, certainly hope it doesn’t.

 

[Bav]

looks like we U turning . . . . Again !!! - (inverter)

after a slightly energetic discussion this morning with the Chief Advisor. . . CA


it seems that the 2000va (1600w cont`) wont be enough power.


we need to run some 240v stuff. . . .

1500w coffee pod machine,
1000w kettle,
800w microwave,
small load electricals.

BUT. . .


the problem is that now the Chief Advisor is used to the ECOFLOW DELTA2 MAX -


- that has a 3100w output(max with x-boost) - that we have been using for the last year.
we now have to deal with 2000w hairdryers, . . . . . .

3kw fast boil kettles
2kw toaster
2kw air fryer?

or even just the 1800w coffee machine + 1000w kettle (2800w together) needs to be catered for. .


the discussion went like this.

+++

Me - were are loosing the EF D2 MAX and using this 1600w Victron inverter instead. but you have to use one thing at a time.

CA - whats the point in having electric if i cant make a coffee while boiling the kettle for tea?

Me - well boil the kettle first, then make the coffee after.

CA - why cant i use my 2kw hairdryer? - it worked on the EF battery box.?

Me - well, do you need to use a hair dryer.?

CA - i want a microwave

Me - sure, no problem. . . well get a small 800W one

CA - why cant i use this 3kw fast boil kettle?

Me - why cant you use the 1kw kettle we have already?

CA - because it takes 3times as long !

Me - oh right, fair enough

CA - why cant i use the microwave, while blow-drying my hair and making a cup of tea? etc etc etc .

Me - i give up

+++

so . . it seams that the Ecoflow delta2 MAX was too good and has spoiled us.


now the plan is to loose it from the van and go INVERTER + BATTERY, looks like i need to up the power.


The ROAMER SB230 G4 can deal with a 3000w inverter. . . so that what we are looking at.

the 1600w Victron 2000va wont be enough

the Renogy 2000w inverter i have wont be enough. . .



that leaves me with two options. . .


the Victron 3000va (2400w, 6kw peak) - £800

or

and the RENOGY 3000w (6kw Peak) - £250


View attachment 279999






View attachment 280000



.
+++++++++++++++++++++


The first consideration is the power:
Renogy 3/6kw vs Victron 2.4/6kw



Then the size & weight:
Renogy 482*220*92 mm @ 6.4Kg vs Victron 533 x 285 x 150 mm (12 V) @ 19kgs


Then the cost:
Renogy £260 vs Victron £800


idle power consumption:
Renogy 1.5A vs Victron 1.5A


other factors:
having the Vic inverter on VRM & the victron app is cool.
no app for the renogy.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++


location wise. . . i think the inverter is going to have to go here, to keep the DC cables as short as possible.


View attachment 280002View attachment 280003View attachment 280004


its looking like a tight fit behind the seat. .


so on the bassis that:

the Renogy is thinner, cheaper, lighter and may blend in better. . .

and that its 3-6kw range should be powerful enough for anything now. .


this happened.


+++++++++++++++++++++

View attachment 280008View attachment 280009




+++++++++++++++++++

im sure at some point im going to regret this. . .

but i have the 1kw Renogy in the van, its been in there for years, its been faultless and runs everything - im confident that it will be good.


but i feel the pull of #TeamBlue very strongly. . . its just so MASSIVE, not a problem in a Crafter, but in a T6 . . Hmmm.




anyway onwards and upwards.



.

Welcome to the club.

 

[EAN]

If I was doing my electrics from scratch again and using such a beefy inverter then I would choose an inverter that allows proper switched neutral earth bonding, so it could be properly wired in to automatically switch all the vans sockets between EHU or inverter whilst still utilising RCD protection: That wouldn’t be the Renogy.

 

[Dellmassive]

If I was doing my electrics from scratch again and using such a beefy inverter then I would choose an inverter that allows proper switched neutral earth bonding, so it could be properly wired in to automatically switch all the vans sockets between EHU or inverter whilst still utilising RCD protection: That wouldn’t be the Renogy.

We never use EHU,

And if we did it would only run a 12v 10-30A support charger to keep the 12v system topped up.

All the 240v would always come from the inverter.... So no earth switching needed.

Saying that I believe that the PE earth stud on the Renogy inverter is tied to its chassis and main NEG terminal? .. ( I'll have to double check the one on the van)

. So I'm thinking:

Site EHU to socket under dash,
Socket PE bonded to chassis and hard wired to ip64 12v charger mounted in plenum chamber. Charger connected to starter battery. Onwards charge via the b2b.

Or

EHU socket to single RCBO under bonnet with chassis pe bond. Then on to charger.

Then in the back .. inverter powered from leisure battery....

Inverter Output connected to mini consumer unit, then on to sockets.

.....


In regards to the victron I believe the multi plus has an internal relay that will click in and out linking the external pe to chassis.. When on external mains.

But I believe the victron phoenix inverters have an internal wire jumper that you need to manually set, pe chassis bonded or floating.

 

[EAN]

Renogy inverters are as you say; inverter chassis, E and Battery Neg are all connected together. Both L and N are 115V with respect to E.
For proper operation of RCDs you require N and E bonding, which Renogy definitely can't do.
Victron definitely can, as can Sterling.
You can only have one N E bond point, so it's either from EHU where it is taken care of on the supply side, or at the inverter, not both.
As long as you do that RCDs will operate correctly.
I think you are saying that your EHU connection is only for a starter battery charger and not for your camper sockets which will be inverter only.
If so then an inverter with permanent NE bonding and the inverter E to van chassis is what you want feeding into your camper mains consumer RCD.

 

[Bav]

If I was doing my electrics from scratch again and using such a beefy inverter then I would choose an inverter that allows proper switched neutral earth bonding, so it could be properly wired in to automatically switch all the vans sockets between EHU or inverter whilst still utilising RCD protection: That wouldn’t be the Renogy.

Interesting... our conversion has 4x 240v sockets, all of which work via EHU or the 3kW Renology inverter. What are the potential issues of this having been achieved "improperly"?

 

[EAN]

@Bav I assume an automatic transfer switch has been fitted to the incoming supply of the camper consumer unit, so it switches over to inverter when EHU isn't present, but is still pre RCD of your consumer unit?
If this is the case then the RCD won't operate properly when off-grid as a Neutral Earth bond is required and (I have it in writing from their technical dept) Renogy Inverters cannot be Neutral Earth bonded.
Plug in an RCD tester into one of your socket outlets and press the test button of the tester when no EHU is present and you are running off the inverter: Not the consumer RCD test button itself. I expect you'll find the consumer RCD won't trip as you don't have the protection you think you may have from it.

 

[EAN]

 

[Bav]

@Bav I assume an automatic transfer switch has been fitted to the incoming supply of the camper consumer unit, so it switches over to inverter when EHU isn't present, but is still pre RCD of your consumer unit?

Err... pass!

We manually switch the inverter off when on EHU. Not sure if power is drawn from the inverter if it's left on whilst on EHU - suspect it will be.

Plug in an RCD tester into one of your socket outlets and press the test button of the tester when no EHU is present and you are running off the inverter: Not the consumer RCD test button itself. I expect you'll find the consumer RCD won't trip as you don't have the protection you think you may have from it.

Thanks for the heads-up - I'll take a look and report back!

 

[Jollyvan]

Have you thought about a trailer? I have a mate who can spec one up for you.

 

[Dellmassive]

The Renogy has an internal transfer switch, for L & N, (not sure about the pe E) - with phase and frequency locking, I think that's why it can switch so fast over to battery, as it's tracking the in coming 240v.

So @Bav post a few picks of the inverter connections, to see if you're 240v is plugged into it or not.

I think most people just install it like:

EHU to Renogy 240v in.
Inverter 240v out to consumer unit..
CU to sockets.

 

[EAN]

The Renogy has an internal transfer switch, for L & N, (not sure about the pe E) - with phase and frequency locking, I think that's why it can switch so fast over to battery, as it's tracking the in coming 240v.

So @Bav post a few picks of the inverter connections, to see if you're 240v is plugged into it or not.

I think most people just install it like:

EHU to Renogy 240v in.
Inverter 240v out to consumer unit..
CU to sockets.

Installing like that would mean no RCD protection when on Inverter. Would work on pass through.
Also both L and N will be “live” at 115Vac on Inverter.
Edit:
Also pretty sure Electrical Regs require an RCD at the entry point to the camper; so mains between EHU socket and inverter mains input

 

[Bav]

The Renogy has an internal transfer switch, for L & N, (not sure about the pe E) - with phase and frequency locking, I think that's why it can switch so fast over to battery, as it's tracking the in coming 240v.

So @Bav post a few picks of the inverter connections, to see if you're 240v is plugged into it or not.

I think most people just install it like:

EHU to Renogy 240v in.
Inverter 240v out to consumer unit..
CU to sockets.

I'd love to post pics of it, but I'd need to take the fridge out in order to get to it.

 

[Dellmassive]

just double checked.

The Victron Multiplus have an internal transfer switch that will switch L,N,E

when on EHU LNE are pass through with N,E bond

when OFF EHU and on Battery - N,E are internally bonded. - so that onwards RCDs will trip with a L/N,E fault




+++

the smaller Victron inverters that dont have 240v inputs that are battery only - have an internal jumper for ether N,E bonded of Floating:

N,E bonded inside inverter (default) - to be used with downstream RCDs (will trip with a L-chassis fault)

Floating - RCD if fitted wont trip with a L-chassis fault ( but only one class#1 device to be used)




++++++


for reference. . .

My RENOGY 1000w in the van i looked at today. has a perm N-E bond, which would mean that downstream RCDs if fitted would trip with a L-Chassis fault.




but the INCOMING 240v input PE pin is also connected to the N,E,Chassis.

so in my instance its all go as i have no external 240v input, i could fit a mini CU with RCD`s and all would be good.


BUT, . . .


if i was to connect the EHU external 240v GRID power, into the RENOGY inverter, then the N-E bond is not helping and the down stream RCD wouldnt trip, ( this is where the Victron multiplus would switch over.)

the thing is. . . the Victron inverters are exactly the same, they are N-E bonded, and setup to be used with down stream CU & RCDS


the ONLY TIME THE RENOGY INVERTER become a problem is if you use the 240v pass through feature.


+++++


with me this isnt a problem, as well be using the inverter on its own, just fed from the battery to give 240vac via a CU & RCDS.

my EHU feed would only power an IP65 Victron 25A DC charger connected to the LB, - the 240v mains would be limited to the plug in point in the engine bay and not switched to the vans sockets.






.+++++

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/MultiPlus-II_230V/32424-MultiPlus-II___Quattro-II-pdf-en.pdf

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Inverter_Smart/106668-Inverter_PH_Smart__VE_Direct_and_SUN-pdf-en.pdf

.

 

[Dellmassive]

Victron also say that smaller inverters that have different 240AC sources should use a separate transfer switch.

they list the FILAX2.


but even this just switches the L,N . . but keeps the PE common. - and then states that external RCD, RCCB should be fitted.





.

Filax 2 - Victron Energy

Switch sensitive loads, such as computers or modern entertainment equipment from one AC source to another with the Filax 2. Learn more now.

www.victronenergy.com

 

[Dellmassive]

Victron also say that smaller inverters that have different 240AC sources should use a separate transfer switch.

they list the FILAX2.


but even this just switches the L,N . . but keeps the PE common. - and then states that external RCD, RCCB should be fitted.


View attachment 280182View attachment 280184View attachment 280185


.

Filax 2 - Victron Energy

Switch sensitive loads, such as computers or modern entertainment equipment from one AC source to another with the Filax 2. Learn more now.

www.victronenergy.com

View attachment 280183

i come across this today,


these guys explain and show the difference between a floating inverter and a N-chassis bonded inverter ( with refence to the downstream RCD protection, but also not they have NO external EHU).

he explains a lot on a short vid, so watch it all the way. . .

and check out the RCD testing @ 29mins





.

.

 

[EAN]

@Dellmassive Are you sure your Renogy is actually N E bonded? That goes against what Renogy technical dept say and how my Renogy is wired: Measuring mine I have 115vac between L and E and 115vac between N and E, when on inverter (I don't use the UPS function) to form 230vac across L and N.