[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

LhHutch · 6 Jul 2021

Dellmassive said:
As above,
I chose option one.

Didnt have the option for monitoring at the time.... id imagine its like the cali panel you get in the top cubby hole.

I’ve found some info on these options but no mention of that panel but seems to be more dc-dc charge regulation than just SCR.
Anyone interested generally in all the options for the non standard bodybuilder options within the dealer configurator it’s here

https://bodybuilder-database.com/jc...f/9c7fc858-d792-0cf7-98bc-40a65a4aab76#page86

page 82 was the 2nd batt stuff but I’m thinking that will over complicate stuff? Do you agree?

t0mb0 · 6 Jul 2021

LhHutch said:
I’ve found some info on these options but no mention of that panel but seems to be more dc-dc charge regulation than just SCR.
Anyone interested generally in all the options for the non standard bodybuilder options within the dealer configurator it’s here

https://bodybuilder-database.com/jc...f/9c7fc858-d792-0cf7-98bc-40a65a4aab76#page86

page 82 was the 2nd batt stuff but I’m thinking that will over complicate stuff? Do you agree?

Given its devilishly clever response to a low'ish aux battery appears to be to crank up the alternator voltage and you're already planning to fit a DC-DC anyway, then it's almost certainly a bad idea.

zlea73 · 16 Jul 2021

Hi, finally completed first part of the installation , it took a while. Before I connect to the main battery I want to double check if it Is all right to connect the ground from the leisure battery and both grounds from the Isolated Victron 12 12 30 to the same earthing nut under the passenger seat.
Or alternately connect the two grounds from the Victron dc dc charger to the negative terminal connnector (3 nuts) on the leisure battery and from there send only one cable to the nut under the seat? As they are at same potential I don’t think it doesn’t make much of a difference, Or does it?
I did not use a negative busbar But I see it is used in many installations. Can I do whit-out it?

Tomorrow second part I will install the fuse box for the loads and the smart battery protect under the other seat (driver) and leave plenty of space for the diesel heater.

Urbanfox · 17 Jul 2021

This link to Auto Marine Solutions is a good source of ref for connectors, cables and they do a 30A DC-DC unit. Think they have a minimum charge of £35 +vat though.

AMC – Auto Marine Cables

Automotive Cables, Marine Cables & OceanFlex Cables

www.automarinecables.com

Dellmassive · 19 Jul 2021

zlea73 said:
Hi, finally completed first part of the installation , it took a while. Before I connect to the main battery I want to double check if it Is all right to connect the ground from the leisure battery and both grounds from the Isolated Victron 12 12 30 to the same earthing nut under the passenger seat.
Or alternately connect the two grounds from the Victron dc dc charger to the negative terminal connnector (3 nuts) on the leisure battery and from there send only one cable to the nut under the seat? As they are at same potential I don’t think it doesn’t make much of a difference, Or does it?
I did not use a negative busbar But I see it is used in many installations. Can I do whit-out it?

Tomorrow second part I will install the fuse box for the loads and the smart battery protect under the other seat (driver) and leave plenty of space for the diesel heater.

View attachment 123839

View attachment 123840

View attachment 123841

View attachment 123842

View attachment 123843

View attachment 123844

you can do either - or.

as long as the Battery and DC-DC have very good metal connections and the cable gauge is adequate. .

from the pics it looks good.

.

zlea73 · 20 Jul 2021

Thanks for the reply I still have to add any load, I activated the Victron app I can see both dc dc charger and the battery protector. Everything seems working but I can’t see the charger led lights on either status or Bluetooth. Bluetooth is working as I connected and updated the firmware device.
I think may be a problem with the trigger signal coming from the H pin to the ignition.
I have a fused piggyback on top middle fuse box whit wire out the fuse box pointing to passenger side.
Looks all right but I don’t think is set correctly

zlea73 · 21 Jul 2021

Problem solved, actually no problem at all.
the led light switches on only when the engine is on

Dellmassive · 23 Jul 2021

- New Product -

Vicron Orion 85A DC-DC !!!!!!

but they 24v -> 12v so dont get too excited.

Orion DC-DC Converters Non-isolated, High power - Victron Energy

Eliminate the need for a high current switch in the input wiring with the remote on/off connector on the Orion DC-DC Converter. Find a dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

albertramsbottom · 10 Aug 2021

Dellmassive said:
@albertramsbottom

as you say most modern smart alternators are 100-200A.

you wont blow them up drawing 50A via a DC-DC charger. (50A Renogy or Redarc or Abelmail)(30A Victron)(20A ctek,Renogy)

but you could blow them up if you tried to:

pull above its rated max - ie 200A from a 180A T6 uprated alternator

or

pull high amps for an extended duration - ie 110A from a 140A T6 alternator for a long time.

( i done this years ago in an Astra van on a 3hr drive from London to Bristol. . . pumping out the bassline from a massive ICE install at night in summer . . so AC and lights on. . . lost electrical power and van dead . . towed to a garage. next day the garage said they had never seen a melted + Blued Alternator and couldnt explain it. - i knew why drawing 120A (1600w RMS Ice install on 2x L7 Kicker SoloBaric`s) for a long time - the alternator got super hot and cooked its self)

i think the standard T6 alternator is 140A and the bigger version is 180A - you can get the uprated one when you spec the factory leisure battery option.

++++++++++++

2x 110ah AGMs will take around 20A each to charge if they low.

a 1000w pure sine inverter will try to pull 100A, so it will draw 50A from the dc-dc (in engine running with a 50A dc-dc) and 50A out the batterys.

fridge/freezer, TV, lights - all all small loads and will draw under 10A

++++++++++++

a 50A dc-dc charger is no joke.

nor is a 1000W inverter . . .

you will be dealing with some very high currents - correct fusing and cable gauge will be critical or you will end up with melted fuse holders or even cable catching fire.

+++

Its me again

I dont understand what you said below
=======================================================================
a 1000w pure sine inverter will try to pull 100A, so it will draw 50A from the dc-dc (in engine running with a 50A dc-dc) and 50A out the batterys.
========================================================================

Why would a 1000 watt invertor try to pull 100amp? Surely it will only pull what I ask of it, i.e. TV, lights, laptop etc. I wouldn't try to run an electric kettle from it or a microwave

Sorry but I am still trying to create a wiring diagram for my two 110am sealed lead acid batteries, 50amp Renogy DC battery charger and a Renogy 1000 watt invertor

Cheers

albertramsbottom · 10 Aug 2021

Dellmassive said:
- New Product -

Vicron Orion 85A DC-DC !!!!!!

but they 24v -> 12v so dont get too excited.

Orion DC-DC Converters Non-isolated, High power - Victron Energy

Eliminate the need for a high current switch in the input wiring with the remote on/off connector on the Orion DC-DC Converter. Find a dealer near you.

www.victronenergy.com

View attachment 124611 View attachment 124613

This actually says that they can be used for 12V in a 24V system

Pete C · 10 Aug 2021

I think the assumption is that if you have a 1000W inverter, then if you use it at its maximum rating, then it will draw close to 100 A at 12v.
You are right, it will draw less current with lower loads.

Pete

Dellmassive · 10 Aug 2021

Thank you @Pete C yes thats the assumption.

If you install a 1kw inverter.... Then you need to wire and fuse for the max 1kw load....but in practice you will draw much less for most of the time.

The assumption is that on a 12v system... Every 1000w will pull 100A.

If you plan on using more than 1kw regular then moving to 24v is a better idea.

Steele T6 · 11 Aug 2021

Big.mac said:
I pickled up my Renogy DCC30S From the post office this morning. First impressions are good. It is well packaged, appears to be well made and comes with all the bits and bobs you’d expect to make installation straightforward. I ordered the optional Bluetooth module with mine.

As it comes in the boxes:
View attachment 88922
View attachment 88921

This is what comes in the box:

Charger

Bluetooth module (seperate option)

decent manual (much more in depth that the CTEK one)

Ignition wire to connect to a switched IGN feed

Temp sensor and cable

RS485 cable (for future development connecting to monitoring screen/app)

4 x ring crimp connectors for the main input/output cables

some stickers

View attachment 88923

The charger has a neat cover on each end that goes over the main connections to keep them insulated away from debris etc. There is a decent set of fins on the bottom of the unit to distribute the heat and well labelled sockets for plugging in the IGN feed/temp sensor etc.
View attachment 88926 View attachment 88927 View attachment 88928

There was no tamperproof screws so i popped the rear cover off to expose the circuit board which looks like this. I didn’t go any further with disassembly.
View attachment 88929

Installation. I’m planning to put mine under the drivers seat to replace the CTEK250SE that is there just now. I also plan to replace my fuse box with a larger unit as I’ll be adding some additional USB outlets and a dedicated feed for my fridge. The Renogy is a fair bit bigger than the CTEK so i was planning to mount it onto a ply board, mounted vertically inside the seat base. I made a cardboard template the same size as the ply board will be and you can see how it might fit in the photos below. It will be quite tight so i may put the Renogy on one side of the board and have it rear facing as I can access it over Bluetooth, then place the Bluetooth module and fuse panel on the front of the board which will be visible from under the front of the drivers seat. The fuse box has an LED next to each feed to show if a fuse is blown so I should be able to see this and change a fuse without taking the seat off.

Renogy and fuse panel on same side of board - no room for Bluetooth module:
View attachment 88930

Renogy on one side, fuseboard and Bluetooth Module on the other:
View attachment 88931 View attachment 88932

One thing to be aware of is cable entry. The covers mean cables enter as shown below. It should still fit where I plan to put it as there is enough room to make a nice curved entry off of the backboard (Ignore the top right black being in the wrong place this is just to show cable entry)
View attachment 88933

If it were to be placed on the floor under the seat it would look something like shown below. The cardboard template being the same size as the seat base.
View attachment 88935

I won’t be installing it for a few weeks as I have other priorities just now but will post an update when I do install it.

Great post. Do you have any pictures of the final install under the seat ? Are you pleased with the setup ?

Big.mac · 13 Aug 2021

Steele T6 said:
Great post. Do you have any pictures of the final install under the seat ? Are you pleased with the setup ?

Very pleased. Solar has been added since and it works like a dream. I leave the fridge running 24/7 and have had no problems with low voltage on either battery, even when leaving the van unused for several days (on a campsite).
Pictures in this post
Post in thread 'What Have You Done To Your Van Today?'
What Have You Done To Your Van Today?

Shortbread69 · 16 Aug 2021

Think I might bite the bullet and replace my Sterling unit / Victron Solar controller for one of those Renogy. Need this trickle starter battery charge…

Dellmassive · 29 Aug 2021

Renogy have updates there DC-DC MPPT ( RBc50D1S-G1 )

Now with Screw bolts instead of Studs . . and adjustable & programable power limiter. and battery setting parameters.

you can add the BT-2 Bluetooth unit . .

which links you to the APP..

in this example i reduced the MAX output from 50A to 40A to keep the Anderson connectors cool . .

the output was varified with the Vic BMV..

Sabre · 14 Sep 2021

So, my leisure battery finally died. Now there's a real thought process on the potential cost/investment. There be changes ahoy!

Sabre · 14 Sep 2021

Cheers Lee, I currently dont have a dc-dc charger so I knew this was gonna happen, 3 1/2 yrs aint too bad with a little split charge relay. BUt its time go.
I'd like to throw out a question tho... THe next part of this journey will need to lead towards a LiFePO4 but maybe not with the rest of this invest.
Theres 120w of solar, an MPPT coupling the 2 panels, a sargent EC150 centres everything, which has been OK, So given Im not really going to rip out the whole conversion just to rewire, is this going to be a massive headache to upgrade and what would you suggest?
I.m feeling a low level pain building in my bank account already! :-D

Dellmassive · 15 Sep 2021

@Sabre you need to check if you're solar MPPT has a Lifepo4 profile for that battery type.

Then you have two options... Either seperate dc-dc and solar.... Or combined unit.

The Renogy, ctek, redarc units can do combined.

Other popular DC-DC units are the Victron Orion.

Then on the battery front.. look at the new range of Lifepo4 battery that have fully integrated BMS with all the protection built in... Look at. Renogy, Poweroad, sterling lithium.

++++

Short cut --->

buy this Renogy DC-DC with solar mppt

DCC30S 12V 30A Dual Input DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT

Explore the Renogy DCC30S 12V 30A DC to DC charger with MPPT for efficient and reliable power management in all conditions.

uk.renogy.com

++++

buy this 100ah lifepo4 battery

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery

The Renogy Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery enables auto-balance among parallel-connections and provides more flexibility for battery connection thanks to its RJ45 communication ports. If you're searching for a deep cycle battery for caravan, cabin, or marine use, then this lightweight...

uk.renogy.com

+++

you can add BT monitoring APP with this BT-2 unit

BT-2 Bluetooth Module for Renogy Products w/ RS485 Port

The Renogy BT-2 can connect to Renogy charge controllers with a RS232 port and is used to pair charge controllers with the Renogy APP. Visit our website to see the wide selection we have to offer!

uk.renogy.com

++++

here is 10% off for you . . .

I can get you a discount at Renogy United Kingdom

+++++

also availible here:

Renogy 12V 30A DC-DC on-board Battery Charger with MPPT : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

amzn.to

.....

https://amzn.to/39cV4BK

....

Dellmassive · 15 Sep 2021

@Sabre

start here for Lifepo4 batteries:

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Lithium Batteries are the future, (keep checking back for the latest news/edits) ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

and here:

Low temperature lithium battery

New to the forum and have been looking to convert my T6 to a camper. Having decided to go down the lithium battery route and after reading all the info and threads from dellmasive's great write up I thought I would try and add maybe put some info back into the group. The way in which I want to...

www.t6forum.com

see here for dc-dc chargers: