Koni Active Dampers and H&R -40mm Springs

[Tee6.1]

Hi Steve, Dutch T owner here and today finally we mounted your H&R ARB's for our T6.1. I would like to share my personal view and would like to ask for your opinion and point of view please, because you're for sure the most experienced one from us two, without a doubt.

Since 6 weeks been driving for the 1st time a B14 on a new T6.1 4Motion DSG while please note I'm not unfamiliar with coilovers and driving fast & lowered cars (my personal orientation is based on this background). Started our T6.1 upgrade project to make it worth driving (tyres, wheels, arb's and brakes upgraded), while we couldn't live with the oem set up delivered by VW . Meanwhile we travelled 3.000 km. Been also to Germany for a good test drive. Tested different ride heights and I must say that I am deeply impressed with the handling and the performance capacity of this B14 set when used intensively and my doubts about the rear spring are gone. It performs very well. Impressed by the big difference in comfort while only making a small adjustment e.g. 36 cm. front / 37 cm. rear compared with 37.5 cm. front / 38.5 cm. rear.

I'm not searching for comfort. I'm mainly interested in very good performance (in this price range budget we're talking here) while trying to make the Van performing as if it is a sporty car.....kinda (hope you understand what I'm trying to say here). I drive this Van most of the time without (heavy) load, we have good roads and never a higher total weight of 2700 kg. For me and my personal driving circumstances this B14 set gives me more than enough comfort on the roads I drive combined with a stunning result in handling & performance.

What I kindly would like to ask you, the KONI/H&R set ; does it perform as good as this B14 set when really testing it to see where its limits are, keeping in mind my driving conditions and max. total weight ? Often more comfort usually means that it comes at the expense of driving performance ?

Would be very pleased reading your thoughts.

 

[CRS Performance]

Hi there .

It is difficult for me to answer this objectively because i dont rate the B 14 at all . there are design issues apart from the rear spring issues .

Ill try to summarise the differences

B14 is a modified Sport shock converted to height adjustment by removing the spring seat and fitting a threaded sleeve over the shock . This means the shaft is too long and the body is too long . It uses the standard Bump stop which is also too long , The main issue for me is the shock technology a MONO TUBE HI PRESSURE shock is not the answer for leisure vehicles such as the T 6 or T 5 . The shocks have 20 to 25 bar pressure in them and this is what makes them harsh ( doesnt improve handling either so why do this ) . You will know that in order to overcome this harsh ride characteristic they have launched a COMFORT version which uses Dual tube technology and it is more comfortable .

The H&R kit we do is a Proper coil over kit ( full threaded body ) using dual tube KONI shocks that are damping adjustable and can be adjusted to suit bigger wheels etc . The struts are shorter and the shafts are shorter , they come with performance short bump stops included in the kit. The rear springs are much more durable and we haven't found any bottoming out issues there either . The H&R Kit is TUV approved for use in Europe and as far as we know the B 14 ( and comfort ) arent !!

The Kit is built by H&R one of the worlds leading suspension suppliers and the B 14 is built by an independent company in Germany ( NOT BILSTEIN , it isnt on the Bilstein web site )

The drops that the kits do, also differ 40 to 70 on the Bilstein although we find that in heavier vans adjusted to the top the vans are still 70 mm down and no adjustment left to get them higher . THe H&R kit is 50 to 80 mm drop and is way more comfortable at the lower settings .
Using the KONI sport adjustable shocks the Handling and performance is also better than the B 14 .
Pictures show the difference in length of the shocks . the rear spring issue , as well as the design of the two kits .

WE have removed quite a few B 14 s now to fit our kit , and while no one will argue the B14 s are better than standard a few of them were removed with less than 1000 miles of service . Customers simply didn't like the harsh ride .

The other issue is the 2 valve system in a B 14 one up ( Bump ) and one down ( Rebound ) ,.. the benefit the KONI shocks have is 3 valves one up and one down for the low speed shaft movements , and added to this a Main override valve for the Hi speed movements of the shaft . this is where we can control the harsh bumps and control the hi pressure of the oil on bad roads .

A standard shock simply gets harder the faster it moves so poor handling in low speed shaft movements and too hard in fast shaft movements . The KONI shocks are firmer in slow speed shaft movements to get the handling good but softer in Hi speed shaft movements to maintain comfort .

Hope this is simple enough to understand

I am puzzled by the measurements you listed the 36 and 37 CM is this from the top of the arch to the centre of the wheel ?? if so its way past the designed use for a B14 front should be 39 cm and rear 39 ( 40 on a T32 )

Look forward to hearing from you

steve

 

[jimc91]

Hi there .

It is difficult for me to answer this objectively because i dont rate the B 14 at all . there are design issues apart from the rear spring issues .

Ill try to summarise the differences

B14 is a modified Sport shock converted to height adjustment by removing the spring seat and fitting a threaded sleeve over the shock . This means the shaft is too long and the body is too long . It uses the standard Bump stop which is also too long , The main issue for me is the shock technology a MONO TUBE HI PRESSURE shock is not the answer for leisure vehicles such as the T 6 or T 5 . The shocks have 20 to 25 bar pressure in them and this is what makes them harsh ( doesnt improve handling either so why do this ) . You will know that in order to overcome this harsh ride characteristic they have launched a COMFORT version which uses Dual tube technology and it is more comfortable .

The H&R kit we do is a Proper coil over kit ( full threaded body ) using dual tube KONI shocks that are damping adjustable and can be adjusted to suit bigger wheels etc . The struts are shorter and the shafts are shorter , they come with performance short bump stops included in the kit. The rear springs are much more durable and we haven't found any bottoming out issues there either . The H&R Kit is TUV approved for use in Europe and as far as we know the B 14 ( and comfort ) arent !!

The Kit is built by H&R one of the worlds leading suspension suppliers and the B 14 is built by an independent company in Germany ( NOT BILSTEIN , it isnt on the Bilstein web site )

The drops that the kits do, also differ 40 to 70 on the Bilstein although we find that in heavier vans adjusted to the top the vans are still 70 mm down and no adjustment left to get them higher . THe H&R kit is 50 to 80 mm drop and is way more comfortable at the lower settings .
Using the KONI sport adjustable shocks the Handling and performance is also better than the B 14 .
Pictures show the difference in length of the shocks . the rear spring issue , as well as the design of the two kits .

WE have removed quite a few B 14 s now to fit our kit , and while no one will argue the B14 s are better than standard a few of them were removed with less than 1000 miles of service . Customers simply didn't like the harsh ride .

The other issue is the 2 valve system in a B 14 one up ( Bump ) and one down ( Rebound ) ,.. the benefit the KONI shocks have is 3 valves one up and one down for the low speed shaft movements , and added to this a Main override valve for the Hi speed movements of the shaft . this is where we can control the harsh bumps and control the hi pressure of the oil on bad roads .

A standard shock simply gets harder the faster it moves so poor handling in low speed shaft movements and too hard in fast shaft movements . The KONI shocks are firmer in slow speed shaft movements to get the handling good but softer in Hi speed shaft movements to maintain comfort .

Hope this is simple enough to understand

I am puzzled by the measurements you listed the 36 and 37 CM is this from the top of the arch to the centre of the wheel ?? if so its way past the designed use for a B14 front should be 39 cm and rear 39 ( 40 on a T32 )

Look forward to hearing from you

steve

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what a great explanation of the differences....

 

[YellowHound]

Hi there .

It is difficult for me to answer this objectively because i dont rate the B 14 at all . there are design issues apart from the rear spring issues .

Ill try to summarise the differences

B14 is a modified Sport shock converted to height adjustment by removing the spring seat and fitting a threaded sleeve over the shock . This means the shaft is too long and the body is too long . It uses the standard Bump stop which is also too long , The main issue for me is the shock technology a MONO TUBE HI PRESSURE shock is not the answer for leisure vehicles such as the T 6 or T 5 . The shocks have 20 to 25 bar pressure in them and this is what makes them harsh ( doesnt improve handling either so why do this ) . You will know that in order to overcome this harsh ride characteristic they have launched a COMFORT version which uses Dual tube technology and it is more comfortable .

The H&R kit we do is a Proper coil over kit ( full threaded body ) using dual tube KONI shocks that are damping adjustable and can be adjusted to suit bigger wheels etc . The struts are shorter and the shafts are shorter , they come with performance short bump stops included in the kit. The rear springs are much more durable and we haven't found any bottoming out issues there either . The H&R Kit is TUV approved for use in Europe and as far as we know the B 14 ( and comfort ) arent !!

The Kit is built by H&R one of the worlds leading suspension suppliers and the B 14 is built by an independent company in Germany ( NOT BILSTEIN , it isnt on the Bilstein web site )

The drops that the kits do, also differ 40 to 70 on the Bilstein although we find that in heavier vans adjusted to the top the vans are still 70 mm down and no adjustment left to get them higher . THe H&R kit is 50 to 80 mm drop and is way more comfortable at the lower settings .
Using the KONI sport adjustable shocks the Handling and performance is also better than the B 14 .
Pictures show the difference in length of the shocks . the rear spring issue , as well as the design of the two kits .

WE have removed quite a few B 14 s now to fit our kit , and while no one will argue the B14 s are better than standard a few of them were removed with less than 1000 miles of service . Customers simply didn't like the harsh ride .

The other issue is the 2 valve system in a B 14 one up ( Bump ) and one down ( Rebound ) ,.. the benefit the KONI shocks have is 3 valves one up and one down for the low speed shaft movements , and added to this a Main override valve for the Hi speed movements of the shaft . this is where we can control the harsh bumps and control the hi pressure of the oil on bad roads .

A standard shock simply gets harder the faster it moves so poor handling in low speed shaft movements and too hard in fast shaft movements . The KONI shocks are firmer in slow speed shaft movements to get the handling good but softer in Hi speed shaft movements to maintain comfort .

Hope this is simple enough to understand

I am puzzled by the measurements you listed the 36 and 37 CM is this from the top of the arch to the centre of the wheel ?? if so its way past the designed use for a B14 front should be 39 cm and rear 39 ( 40 on a T32 )

Look forward to hearing from you

steve

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Agreed - very informative post.
Forgive me though - I'm slightly confused over the various Koni dampers being used.
Does the H&R kit you've described use the Koni 'Active' dampers or is it something different again?
Have to admit to a great interest in this - when I fitted my B14s I noticed a huge difference in body control (and ride) but not so much the handling - still an understeer monkey..... The big difference in the handling came with the H&R ARBs.

I'd love to drive a van with an 'optimal' set up for the T6. Optimal for me means an emphasis on handling whilst maintaining ride comfort as far as possible. I'm not interested in an 'extreme' ride height solution - my B14s are set at the highest.
All this talk of 'there's a far better solution out there' really has piqued my interest.

 

[CRS Performance]

In reality there shouldnt be any extreme lowering Kits on the market , they aren't safe and there is nothing practical about them . The people selling them are exploiting the total lack of regulation in UK for safe auto products .

The B 14 kit is built by the same company that build these extreme kits like the SoLow kit and Extreme Projekt Twin tube supplied by Chillijam . Non have TUV approval . The normal drop Chillijam kit does have TUV because it is on sale ibn Europe i believe and it would have to have approval to be allowed there.
The understeer you complain about can only be the rake of the van , If the car doesnt SIT nose down it will understeer . Maybe you can provide some measurements so we can check that .

The KONI Special actives are designed to do standard height to 40 mm drop because the technology wont like lower vans
The H&R coil over kit is fitted with KONI sport adjustable dampers, they can be adjusted stiffer and softer under the scuttle tray at the front of the vehicle . These are 50 mm shorter than the B 14 equivalent kit and this allows us to go a little lower and maintain comfort levels.

No one will argue that a B14 isnt better than standard , but starting from a poor base it really isnt hard to improve on that. Even the cheap and not cheerful far east kits ride better then stock .
The H&R / KONI kit is in a league of its own at the current price

 

[YellowHound]

In reality there shouldnt be any extreme lowering Kits on the market , they aren't safe and there is nothing practical about them . The people selling them are exploiting the total lack of regulation in UK for safe auto products .

The B 14 kit is built by the same company that build these extreme kits like the SO Low kit and extreme Project Twin tube supplied by Chillijam . Non have TUV approval . The normal drop Chillijam kit does have TUV because it is on sale ibn Europe i believe and it would have to have approval to be allowed there.
The understeer you complain about can only be the rake of the van , If the car doesnt SIT nose down it will understeer . Maybe you can provide some measurements so we can check that .

The KONI Special actives are designed to do standard height to 40 mm drop because the technology wont like lower vans
The H&R coil over kit is fitted with KONI sport adjustable dampers , they can be adjusted stiffer and softer under the schuttle tray at the front of the vehicle . These are 50 mm shorter than the B 14 equivalent kit and this allows us to go a little lower and maintain comfort levels .
No one will argue that a B14 isnt better than standard , but starting from a poor base it really isnt hard to improve on that . Even the cheap and not cheerful far east kits ride better then stock . The H&R / KONI kit is in a league of its own at the current price , .

Thanks.
You've slightly misinterpreted my post - I'm not suffering understeer with the H&R ARBs. I was before they were fitted. With the H&R ARBs set to their stiffest I find the handling balance very neutral (in as far as it can be).
What kit would you recommend for my van? I don't want to go any lower than the B14s at their highest and am running 18" wheels with the std VW tyre size.
A kit based around the Koni Active units, or the H&R kit detailed in this thread?
TIA!

 

[CRS Performance]

Thanks.
You've slightly misinterpreted my post - I'm not suffering understeer with the H&R ARBs. I was before they were fitted. With the H&R ARBs set to their stiffest I find the handling balance very neutral (in as far as it can be).
What kit would you recommend for my van? I don't want to go any lower than the B14s at their highest and am running 18" wheels with the std VW tyre size.
A kit based around the Koni Active units, or the H&R kit detailed in this thread?
TIA!

Yes for 40 mm drops i wouldn't recommend any height adjustable kits , the Special actives and H&R springs are brilliant , with out doubt the best ride you can get from a Van .

 

[Tee6.1]

Hi Steve,

I would like to thank you for the time you took explaining and sharing your expertise to me/us. Food for thought and never to old to learn and something to think about. This morning they finished, with the arb's mounted, the alignment and weightbalancing - which was 'fun' doing with a T6.1 and the final set up is definitely 37.5 front 38.7 cm. rear (measured properly from top of the arch to centre of the wheel)(maybe the measuring at previous moments was less accurate ?...to answer your question). The car handling has improved so much, the feeling in the steer is great and no roll. Worth every penny this arb upgrade.

"Someone will be happy with what he has until he sees or gets something that is even better". Would love to test the H&R/KONI to make a comparison. But for now I don't regret driving B14. If it was no good or I wasn't completely satisfied I would immediately remove it, but based on my personal (non pro) experience no regrets so far.

Thanks again Steve, much appreciated

 

[T6ARF]

I know that @CRS Performance have been reviewed on this forum many times, but credit where credit is due in my opinion!

I first made contact with Steve at CRS back in July (on this forum), asking about how to improve the ride/comfort of my van (T28 day van, lowered on -40mm H&R springs with H&R ARB’s).... Steve’s reply was that I simply needed a set of Koni dampers/shocks to compliment my current setup and the results would be great!

Unfortunately at the time, Steve was waiting for the shocks as the factory’s in Europe where on holiday, so I had to be patient, but Steve messaged me last week and after a quick phone call I was booked in!

I arrived in Cannock at CRS this morning and was waved straight in.... welcomed by Steve, Rob @BiTurbo, Big Steve and Jordan. Big Steve and Jordan got straight on with the work on my van, Rob made me a coffee and I talked through with Steve what I wanted/options?

I explained to Steve that I was really happy with the fact that I had never had any rubbing/banging on the wheel arches from my 20 inch alloys (275/40 tyres) and wanted to maintain this, but then I would always look at my van and think.... it could be lower

Steve suggested, but with no pressure the H&R/KONI coil over kit, as this was fully adjustable to get the right balance between looks, comfort and practicality. He said we’ll fit it, and if after a test drive anything is rubbing, it can be adjusted?

Leaving Cannock for my drive home and the first impressions are good, very good.... firstly I noticed how quiet and calm the cabin was and how planted and solid the van now feels.... no more bang, crash wallop when you hit an unfamiliar
pot hole or manhole cover, just the German shocks doing their job.... the steering now feels rock solid into islands/bends and no more skittish behaviour.... in fact the whole van feels like it’s had a ton of led evenly distributed all over it, it’s that planted! The only thing to spoil my drive home was the torrential rain, but then this only highlighted to me the benefits of having a premium suspension setup underneath me.... it felt very poised and very safe.

I’ll know more next week when I drive to and from work on roads I’m familiar with just how much it’s improved, but for now, one very happy customer here.

So, I went in there for shocks only, but have come away with a fully adjustable, TUV approved coil over kit that I am VERY, VERY happy with! It is what it is and you get what you pay for.... I’m a big believer in that!

Many thanks to Steve and the team @CRS Performance

 

[T6ARF]

Forgot to say.... it’s now lowered by 65mm.... that inch makes all the difference!

 

[T6ARF]

Another thing I forgot to mention about @CRS Performance, when Steve was stripping down the front suspension he noticed one of the rubber top mounts was split/torn, so we replaced both of those.... and when Big Steve and Jordan had removed the rear springs, they noticed the rubber spring mounts where the same.... split/torn, so they were replaced too.

This is the benefit of going to a specialist in their field.... they check and notice these things and also carry the stock to replace such items.

 

[SF_52EVO]

Absolutely can’t wait to bring mine in a week on Monday, and the best part is... so far the Mrs hasn’t asked how much it’s costing

 

[Big Al]

I`m going to have sleepless nights over Suspension set-ups now! I went to a local performance garage as I had seen that they had done a few Transporters. Turns out they lean towards the B14`s as ` they`ve not had anyone complain`. I dont know if its just because they may be an agent for them or something, and prefer to fit them? They said they would get a price from Bilstein, not had it yet, and not committed.
I did mention Eibach/ Koni set-ups and they said they could get them, but...... decisions??!!

 

[CRS Performance]

The issue is for the last 4 or 5 years the Transporter scene is obsessed with the B 14 because it was the only kit available , no one will argue its better than standard but the Best ?? definately not . we have removed lots of B 14 in favour of ours some had only done 1000 miles .,

The H&R kit is a proper coil over not a sleeve over hybrid kit, The B14 shaft and body are too long and thats why people complain when they are low .

The B 14 is 40 to 70 and the H&R 50 to 80 mm

The B 14 has a bad spring problem on the rear , breaking all the time apparently Search the T 6 forum for the complaints /

The H&R kit is a Proper H&R product on their web site with TUV approval the B14 is made by an independant company and hasnt got TUV approval because it isnt allowed to be sold in Germany ( but its made there ) alarm bells should bve sounding already ha ha

Steve

 

[Big Al]

Thanks Steve, I do get your explanation regarding the differences. My dilemma now is where and who to fit it? I`m up in Northumberland so I`m guessing a few miles from your workshop! Would you be based in the midlands by any chance?

 

[T6ARF]

@CRS Performance is based in Cannock.... WS11 0ET @Big Al

 

[CRS Performance]

Yes WS11 0ET cannock staffs

 

[Big Al]

Thanks Steve, I do get your explanation regarding the differences. My dilemma now is where and who to fit it?

 

[NorthernT6]

Thanks Steve, I do get your explanation regarding the differences. My dilemma now is where and who to fit it?

I'm in the same boat , I have been watching this thread for a while and have decided that I would like to go either the KONI/ H&R coil over or just a Koni damper setup as I'm already lowered on 40mm Cobra springs. Would like to take it to Steve at CRS But its a 3 hour trip from sunny Teesside! Might have to bite the bullet and get booked in soon as i've now got knocking coming from the front suspension when going over bumps and hitting roundabouts hard!

 

[Big Al]

@Northern T6 I was thinking the same. Once van back from conversion, its Tracker fitted, Detailed and then Suspension. Sorted 1 and 2 out just need 3 then I think I`m done. 3hr 40 for me.....