Most likely your starter battery is an AGM and therfore will match. Don’t spill does not “gass” but still requires a vent.
Here is some bedtime reading for you; Battery Basics - Guide to Batteries | BatteryStuff
Leisure Battery Charging
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Here is some bedtime reading for you; Battery Basics - Guide to Batteries | BatteryStuff
Yeah, your last quote sums up my statement. I understand you can have one, but again it would zap the battery.
@Mickymiff why do you have a 'hole' for the oven if you don't intend to use it. Have you purchased the units from a company? If they're any good, they will be able to utilize the space with a door/drawer etc.
No i havent bought any units as yet but i automatically thought there was a hole for such items already made units?
Nope,
You're the customer, you decide what you have in the units. Have a look at MajesticWoodDesign on facebook. Great guy and will have the units made as bespoke as you want.
Ovens in campers are the exception rather than the norm
I never knew such a device existed.....you have just made my system much more user friendly!!
Looking at this from a business rather than Engineering perspective:
In my experience an unprotected wet cell battery rarely lasts more than 12-24 mths in any type of van due to abuse (deep cycling), incorrect charging etc.
An AGM battery is now in a similar price bracket to a standard wet cell - yet if managed correctly the advantages of an AGM are clear. However correct management of an AGM battery charging requirements mean that it requires a DC-DC charger and/or suitable MPPT Solar and/or suitable regular mains charging - or all of the above. And for the ultimate protection a low voltage (50%) cut-off device. Solar and mains charging aside, an AGM, DC-DC charging system with protection can be achieved for £200 - £300 over that of a wet cell VSR system.
With the advantages clear and increased cost so low against the overall cost of a £40k-£70k converted T6 - why would any discerning conversion company recommend anything other than AGM / DC-DC Charging? The additional benefit to a converter is that there would be less customers returning their vehicle with Aux battery issues. I guess the disadvantage is that the converter would make less additional income through the replacement of batteries.
Pocc
Member
Sorry, haven't contributed to this thread for a while been caught up with work.
Mark, the problem is a business one as well as an engineering conundrum - you are quite right. And the simple reason is cost and competition. In your post you state a cost of 40 to 70k for a camper, most of our customers come to us with a much lower budget than that and there is a management of expectations to be made for what they're willing to pay and this leads us to evaluate what meets the needs of the customer versus what's the optimum engineering solution.
I have had customers suck in through their teeth when I tell them the cost of a suitable aux battery and charger system, they always tell me they've 'seen them on eBay for 100 quid and the man there says it only takes ten minutes to fit' - so when you tell them an AGM plus B2B with installation is going to run to several times that, they move on to the next supplier who will fit the £22 VSR and a 'leisure' battery for them.
Travelvolt is also quite right in that we never ask our customers what they want us to fit, but rather ask them what they want to do with their van. As Travelvolt says, if it's a mobile caravan, parked on site regularly and with the greatest electrical demand being a compressor fridge, then the requirements are completely different from someone who wants to camp off grid all the time with an inverter, kettle microwave and induction hob.
I've never argued that the optimal solution doesn't comprise of a well matched AGM battery or similar with a good B2B - only whether other solutions were sufficient for certain applications - after all what's often held up to us all as the pinnacle of campervans, the California, has the least sophisticated split charge system of all.
There is also a need to manage the expectations of customers though. For example, I have one customer who has been told by an 'expert' at the Camping and Caravan show (no one from here I'm sure!) that he can run an 800w microwave, 2 x induction hobs and all his other electrics from a fully charged 110ah battery for to quote 'at least a couple of hours without charge'. To quote Scotty from the Enterprise, 'ye canny change the laws of physics' - you can't draw 16million joules from a 4million joule reserve, but the expert says you can so therefore this humble 'old school' caravanner must be wrong
- someone I'm sure will install his system for him, but when he settles down to cook his Sunday roast dinner in his off grid all electric van, I suspect he'll have salmonella from the uncooked chicken rather than a glow of satisfaction from how his sophisticated system managed to generate the excess energy without relying on combustion, fusion or fission - still if the system 8s sophisticated enough he could swap a couple of micrograms of chicken to make up the 12million joule shortage - e=mc2 anyone?
I've accidentally allowed my battery to discharge fully last night. 10.5v on the meter this morning. Ooops. The LED Ablemail error code, 3 short 8 long flashes isn't actually listed on the instructions but 3 short and 9 long is Local output voltage (out of range). Started the van engine for a bit and the solar panel is facing the sun today. Pulled the input fuses on the Ablemail and reinstated. LED now green, indicating solar charge ongoing. After 6 hours its nursed back to 11.8v. Cant get a mains hook up this weekend for a boost.
My question is this really. I use an optimate on my motorbike battery. It has a de-sulphate mode. Is there such a thing for a 110Ah AGM leisure battery? Any prospect of recovering it or is it a waste of time trying? In which case it's an order to @travelvolts for a new one.
My question is this really. I use an optimate on my motorbike battery. It has a de-sulphate mode. Is there such a thing for a 110Ah AGM leisure battery? Any prospect of recovering it or is it a waste of time trying? In which case it's an order to @travelvolts for a new one.
The AGM battery is still a lead-acid type battery so the chemistry is still the same. Certainly some additives have been introduced over the years - e.g. for AGM to withstand deep-charging.
I'm quite hopeful that just one short deep discharge didn't make any significant/measureable damage - two weeks and beyond would probably be another thing. Even freezing discharged AGM battery shouldn't break it.
Literature suggests (I need to find again the exact reference) that after deep discharge the battery should be charged and then the kept floating at around 13.5 Volts for a couple of days. (The exact voltage is not important - but certainly not too high to start gassing but that's way higher for AGM - I think 14.4V at 20C). Unfortunately the above doesn't actually support the magic of desulfating chargers. Anyways, keeping the battery at 13.5 Volts (...13.8V) won't harm it - actually quite the contrary.
More to read:
Linden's Handbook of Batteries, 4th Edition (edited by Thomas Reddy, 2010).
A new edition of the handbook will be available soon: Linden's Handbook of Batteries, Fifth Edition (edited by Kirky W. Beard, 2019), 1200 pages. McGraw-Hill Education, ISBN: 9781260115925. Scheduled publishing in May-2019.
A new edition of the handbook will be available soon: Linden's Handbook of Batteries, Fifth Edition (edited by Kirky W. Beard, 2019), 1200 pages. McGraw-Hill Education, ISBN: 9781260115925. Scheduled publishing in May-2019.
EDIT: Some more: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/sulfation_and_how_to_prevent_it
EDIT#2 (28.4.19): More about battery sulfation and recovery: Battery Sulfation : Technical Support Desk
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Quick hijack of thread. My AGM leisure battery never goes higher that 13.1V and is often at 12.8V according the the voltmeters I have. Do I have a problem with the battery or the Redarc dc-dc? Thanks
Thanks @mmi. Fingers crossed. The battery's about a year old now so maybe its had its day. Some interesting reading on the thread. Having now fitted a solar panel, this should aid with topping the battery up straight after it's been partially drained. Something I've probably been guilty of allowing to happen previously.
If the 12.8V is voltage when battery has been at rest after charging for more than 4 hours - it indicates that the battery is fully charged. So there is nothing a charger could do more to make the battery any happier.
A related table ---> Stop/start...regen...smart Alternator... Dc-dc Charger For Leisure Battery Or Not?
About Redarc ---> Stop/start...regen...smart Alternator... Dc-dc Charger For Leisure Battery Or Not?
More likely to be a problem with your volt meters.
Both the voltmeter installed in the van and my digital multimeter read the same, so I had ruled that out
Then we must assume that your battery is always full.
Hi, thanks for this. I am a new wave user with an 18 month old conversion. Split fuse blew out by leisure battery a few days after going on holiday after VW engine battery replaced. Awaiting inspection from converter who believes leisure battery was left to run down which cannot be the case as van used at least twice a week. Not sure what system we have in. AGM leisure battery. Van previously used for hookup type stays old school so this new usage may have tipped the van over the edge? Any thoughts? Thanks!
Had one of these Hillside vans in last week with the same problem. They have the wrong charging equipment fitted. You will need to get this changed for a DC-DC set up. Cost, around £480.00
Just got back from a great day with Martyn at Travelvolts. He confirmed solar panel had gone phut so replaced with a new 150W panel. Converter fitted split charger had also packed up so Martyn installed a new Redac B2B. Cranked up fridge to ice age setting and drove the 100 miles home. So pleased to see battery sitting at 100% when we got home even though the fridge had started at ambient temperature and must have been on constantly all our way home.
Well worth the journey and funds and very enjoyable chatting to and watching Martyn calmly sorting everything out.
Well worth the journey and funds and very enjoyable chatting to and watching Martyn calmly sorting everything out.
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