Lithium Leisure Battery
- Thread starter Base1388
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lithium battery
Our 100Ah lithium isn’t smaller, or if it is it is marginal. However it has a greater current output so can support the inverrter and also I understand they can be drawn down to a lower level of charge, so giving a larger effective battery for a rated capacity.
The LifePO4 lithium that is used in these batteries is different to the Lithium batteries that you see catch fire, they are a different chemistry.
The LifePO4 is not as dense, and isn't prone to thermal runaway.
When it comes to sizing, some shady suppliers will tell you that you can drain it to 100% DOD, but you will lose a lot of cycles, same as if it was AGM
Work off 70-80% DOD for long life
So as Andy pointed out a 60Ah is roughly equivalent to a 100Ah lead working of the 80% DOD vs 50% DOD on the AGM
The LifePO4 is not as dense, and isn't prone to thermal runaway.
When it comes to sizing, some shady suppliers will tell you that you can drain it to 100% DOD, but you will lose a lot of cycles, same as if it was AGM
Work off 70-80% DOD for long life
So as Andy pointed out a 60Ah is roughly equivalent to a 100Ah lead working of the 80% DOD vs 50% DOD on the AGM
As above LifePO4 is the chemistry to go for. A mate of mine has been a vehicle safety engineer all his working career and has done all sorts of destructive tests on battery packs.
He’s more than happy to go for LifePO4 as a leisure battery. Just have some voltage and current fail safes and you will be fine.
Victron sell all the kit you’ll need to keep your batteries safe
He’s more than happy to go for LifePO4 as a leisure battery. Just have some voltage and current fail safes and you will be fine.
Victron sell all the kit you’ll need to keep your batteries safe
Also, have a very large pile of money
I was up at Hillside Leisure today and on the reception counter they had a "LiFOS Advanced Lithium Power" battery and leaflets - one of which I grabbed; this is a 68ah LiFePO4 battery and a big part of their advertising seems to be that it's depth of discharge means it provides the equivalent power as a 120ah lead or gel battery - according to the leaflet it is priced at £699. @superchargedpolo - given the price point and 68ah together with the fact that Hillside use/have used Solar Technology for supply of their PV Logic Flexi panels I wonder if this is the battery that you spoke to them (ST) about but were struggling to find a link for on their website?? Link to brochure here:- https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/Lifos brochure updated.pdf
Price is definitely getting down to the point where I might take the plunge when my existing battery degrades (probably not that long as it's already 2+ years old and pretty well used) and it looks like this unit may just slot in as a direct replacement under my drivers seat??
Price is definitely getting down to the point where I might take the plunge when my existing battery degrades (probably not that long as it's already 2+ years old and pretty well used) and it looks like this unit may just slot in as a direct replacement under my drivers seat??
So....... to use your 2 years + life, you are prepared to put £699 up vs at least 12 years with normal batteries? I know where my money would go. As an engineer, I don't chase technology and allow technology to develop and costs to go down.... 
Last edited:
Think you've misunderstood @Davenjo , he said his existing lead acid battery only has about 2 yrs of life left, the LiFeP04 batteries should last way longer than the lead acids so at a price point of £699 they start to become much more viable if you keep the van long term. I saw this one on a stand at the Motor home show and thought at the time I hadn't seen one that low before.So....... to use your 2 years + life, you are prepared to put £699 up vs at least 12 years with normal batteries? I know where my money would go. As an engineer, I don't chase technology and allow technology to develop and costs to go down....
Last edited:
Lithium is expensive but you have to weigh up the pros and cons. I don’t think they are suited for T6 sized conversions, unless you are seriously off grid for days on end. I will be using AGM in T6 conversions but Lithium in my bigger, off grid vans. Crafter, Sprinter, Ducato sized vans.
The basic pros for lithium are:
* much higher energy density
* lighter in weight
* minuscule self discharge
* can be charged at a much higher rate
* less internal resistance
* can be discharged at a greater rate, good for big inverters
* can be safely discharged to 20% of its capacity, compared with 50% with AGM
* will last circa 2500 cycles compared to circa 500 for a good quality AGM
Cons
* they cost more
* you need to be careful not to charge them below 0 degC
The basic pros for lithium are:
* much higher energy density
* lighter in weight
* minuscule self discharge
* can be charged at a much higher rate
* less internal resistance
* can be discharged at a greater rate, good for big inverters
* can be safely discharged to 20% of its capacity, compared with 50% with AGM
* will last circa 2500 cycles compared to circa 500 for a good quality AGM
Cons
* they cost more
* you need to be careful not to charge them below 0 degC
@superchargedpolo not sure I agree with your suggestion that the technology is not suited to T6 sized conversions - in my scenario, the biggest AGM battery I can get under the the seat next to the Eberspacher is 75ah - in the summer, with my 100w solar panel, this is sufficient to run my fridge, lights, etc.., indefinitely but in the winter shorter days, less sun, lights on for much longer and the Eberspacher running all the while, I would struggle to do 24 hours before having to plug in and/or run the engine. An equivalent (physical sized) Lithium battery would give me a lot more available power without having to redesign the camper layout and/or position of the battery which works very well for us.
At £699 the price is getting closer to what I would pay rather than £150 for an equivalent AGM when the current one degrades.
One thing that does worry me a bit it the not being able to charge below 0 degC as the temperature in an unoccupied van could get below this in the depths of winter and the early morning sunlight could start the solar charging before the temperature gets above freezing??
At £699 the price is getting closer to what I would pay rather than £150 for an equivalent AGM when the current one degrades.
One thing that does worry me a bit it the not being able to charge below 0 degC as the temperature in an unoccupied van could get below this in the depths of winter and the early morning sunlight could start the solar charging before the temperature gets above freezing??
In some Caravans and Motorhomes, they overcome any issues with charging and external temperatures by housing the battery in an insulated cupboard, or inside a vented battery box.
Doesn't this happen on campers?
Mine is just sat under the driver’s seat - no room for insulation.
Most of the boxes I see (mainly on European Motorhomes) are designed to fit as close as possible to the battery, meaning it only takes up a few millimetres more than the dimensions of the battery fitted. These are either vented with a pipe, or have a dedicated system that has it's own external vent, but that would be a little unsightly on a T6, where as it blends in with the other vents on a Motorhome.
Interesting discussion. Just to throw another bit of info into the equation, I was doing some work for an aircraft engineer recently and he told me (hear say m'lud) that Boeing have rejected LifePo4 in favour of AGM due to ongoing safety concerns!
Temperature isn't too much of a problem. You just can't charge them below 0 degC. You CAN discharge them down to about -20DegC I think.
Most people south of the border don't need to worry about this as long as you have a temperature cut out on your BMS.
I'll just fit a small heating pad in my big systems to kick in before they hit 0DegC.
Most people south of the border don't need to worry about this as long as you have a temperature cut out on your BMS.
I'll just fit a small heating pad in my big systems to kick in before they hit 0DegC.
What would happen if my solar panel started trying to deliver a charge to the battery whilst it was still below 0 deg c?
Similar threads
