Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

[Dellmassive]

FYI - Renogy has joined the game.

details added to first page also:


Renogy - 12V 100AH SMART LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERY (BACK ORDER)

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery (Back Order)

DESCRIPTION
The Renogy Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery enables auto-balance among parallel-connections and provides more flexibility for battery connection thanks to its RJ45 communication ports. The integrated smart battery management system (BMS) not only protects this 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 battery from various abnormal conditions but monitors and manages the charging/discharging process. The state-of-the-art battery cells ensure a long cycle life and exceptional discharge performance. If you’re searching for a deep cycle battery for caravan, cabin, or marine use, then this lightweight, auto-balanced, ultra-safe, long-cycle-life lithium-ion battery is the perfect plug-and-play solution for you!

The Renogy Adventurer Li and Rover charge controller are fully compatible with this battery. If you have any questions regarding this product, please call us at 1 (909) 287-7111 or email sales@renogy.com.

Note:

• Please be aware that if the batteries' Battery Management System (BMS) is activated and the battery voltage shows 0V, you must use a compatible Li charger to reactivate our Li batteries.
• Make sure to tightly screw the battery terminals in, having loose battery terminals will cause the terminals to build up heat resulting in damage to the battery.
• DO NOT string this battery in series. It is made ONLY for parallel connections using identical batteries.

KEY FEATURES
Auto-Balance

• Connects multiple batteries in parallel safely without internal state non-uniformity issues.

Ultra-Safety

• The battery management system (BMS) provides comprehensive protection to the battery and manages the charging/discharging process wisely.

Uncompromised Quality

• State-of-the-art battery cells ensure a lifespan of more than 4000 cycles, 100A continuous discharge current, and a wide range of operation temperature.

Communication Port

• The RJ45 communication ports enable data transmission to meet the needs of different usage scenarios.

SPECIFICATIONS
Rated Capacity:100Ah Insulation Resistance: 500V DC, ≥ 10 MΩ
Nominal Voltage:12.8V Maximum Continuous Charging Current: 50 A
Voltage Range: 10~14.8 V Maximum Continuous Discharging Current: 100 A
Operating Temperature: -20~50 ℃ Communication Port: RJ45 (RS485 Protocol)
Storage Temperature: -25~65℃ Connection Method: Parallel
Dimensions: 289 x 172 x 187.5 mm / 11.38 x 6.77 x 7.38 inch Weight: 11.79 kg / 26 lb
Protection Rate: IP54

 

[Dellmassive]

The 2019 Nobel Prize in Chemistry - Lithium Ion Batteries

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[catfood12]

Another great thread @Dellmassive . Very informative. Thanks for all of your research and time to put it all in this thread.

 

[Dellmassive]

Inside a Roux.. Lifepo4..

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[Base1388]

Hi you guys

@Dellmassive MAGIC thread Fella, thanks for you mad amount of work here !

So I'm now thinking about taking my lithium out the van now its cold !
What di I need to do with the positive and negative collection of wires left in the battery box ???

I'm concerned about the Batt to Batt charger and my solar still be sending juice to a battery that's no there anymore !!

Also what's peoples thoughts on the click on and off connections ???

Quick Release Terminal Clamps - Pair

something like these ?

I've noticed its all a bit of a mess so if I'm going to be taking out and putting battery in regularly I wanna do it as easy as possible and join all the positives together ! If this makes sense ?

When battery is out I want keep it charged too so when it goes in it needs to be 100% so my control panel recognises the level.
What charger you recommend please

Many Thanks guys
Romany

 

[Dellmassive]

Hi you guys

@Dellmassive MAGIC thread Fella, thanks for you mad amount of work here !

So I'm now thinking about taking my lithium out the van now its cold !
What di I need to do with the positive and negative collection of wires left in the battery box ???

I'm concerned about the Batt to Batt charger and my solar still be sending juice to a battery that's no there anymore !!

Also what's peoples thoughts on the click on and off connections ???

Quick Release Terminal Clamps - Pair

something like these ?

I've noticed its all a bit of a mess so if I'm going to be taking out and putting battery in regularly I wanna do it as easy as possible and join all the positives together ! If this makes sense ?

When battery is out I want keep it charged too so when it goes in it needs to be 100% so my control panel recognises the level.
What charger you recommend please

Many Thanks guys
Romany

Hey Dude . . .

firstly you only need to worry if your Lithium battery is 0degC or BELLOW. . . . . . . and even then, its only the CHARGING that may be an issue, You can discharge the battery bellow 0degC no problem.

you may find it easier to just disable the charging circuit while its very cold? - Switch off or disconnect the solar panel? . . . put a on/off switch inline with the DC-DC ignition feed?

if you still want to take the battery out thats fine, just insulate the remaining battery cables in the battery box. - but remember you are supposed to disconnect the solar panels before removing the battery due to the solar charger, also the DC-DC should be disabled too.

and those quick disconnects . . . . . . . personally i wouldn't use them, just stick with what you have ( i wouldn't trust that they could carry the current without heating up and causing an issue down the line).



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another option is the 12v silicon heat pads. (insulate the battery from the cold, and add one of these to keep it warm-ish)

this 12v 20w will draw about 1a or so, but could be used with a thermostat.

12V 20W 200X150mm Silicone Heater Pad Honey Bee Hive Warmer | eBay




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[Grim Reaper]

I've used Anderson SB50 connectors for the Leisure battery and the Starter battery interconnects, with the rubber covers that fit them I can quickly disconnect the DC-DC charger from the Starter Battery feed (first) and then the Leisure battery feed (last) to isolate the Leisure battery.
A 50A battery cut off switch in the positive feed from the solar panels to the DC-DC charger means I can isolate them as well. (first or second)

 

[brassmonkey001]

Hi Romany, you can leave your batteries where they are and just disconnect between your solar panels and your solar charge controller. Lithium batteries are happy to sit unused for long periods as long as they are between 50-80% charged and they will lose very little charge, in fact it appears that they will decline less if stored around 50% than they would if stored at 100%! They will not be damaged by cold weather unless you're talking about seriously cold i.e. -40C. The problem with LFP batteries and cold comes when they are charged at below-freezing temperatures. You can still use them to provide power below freezing, but you can't charge them back up until they are warmed up above freezing.

I can't really talk about B2B chargers as I don't have one, but as long as you disconnect that as well then you should be good provided nothing is left hanging that might cause a short. Perhaps if you just remove the fuses either side of the B2B?

 

[Base1388]

@brassmonkey001

Many Thanks

 

[Base1388]

Hey Dude . . .

firstly you only need to worry if your Lithium battery is 0degC or BELLOW. . . . . . . and even then, its only the CHARGING that may be an issue, You can discharge the battery bellow 0degC no problem.

you may find it easier to just disable the charging circuit while its very cold? - Switch off or disconnect the solar panel? . . . put a on/off switch inline with the DC-DC ignition feed?

if you still want to take the battery out thats fine, just insulate the remaining battery cables in the battery box. - but remember you are supposed to disconnect the solar panels before removing the battery due to the solar charger, also the DC-DC should be disabled too.

and those quick disconnects . . . . . . . personally i wouldn't use them, just stick with what you have ( i wouldn't trust that they could carry the current without heating up and causing an issue down the line).



*********

another option is the 12v silicon heat pads. (insulate the battery from the cold, and add one of these to keep it warm-ish)

this 12v 20w will draw about 1a or so, but could be used with a thermostat.

12V 20W 200X150mm Silicone Heater Pad Honey Bee Hive Warmer | eBay


View attachment 54434

.

Many Thanks Lee

 

[Dellmassive]

!!! HAS RENOGY JUST SOLVED ALL OUR PROBLEMS IN ONE UNIT !!!!

Heres a new solution to LTD with Lifepo4 Batteries:

A 50A DC-DC charger with built in MPPT,

That has a lithium profile WITH Low Temp Disconnect,

That will reverse charge the starter battery !!!!!

That has a IGNITION feed for smart alternator.

The only downside i see is a 25v max VOC solar input (but you can parallel panels to get around that) (But will be still using the Victron MPPT kit alongside anyway)

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DESCRIPTION
Renogy's DCC50S DC to DC MPPT on-board Battery Charger is designed to give you options! This multi-stage, multi-input battery charger can charge a service battery from an alternator connected to a starting battery or by utilizing solar panels connected directly to the unit. While your vehicle's alternator prioritizes your starting battery, this unit will allow your solar system to charge your service battery first! It's the smart way to keep yourself fully charged and off-grid longer! And with multi-stage charging and multi-chemistry functionality, Renogy's DC to DC MPPT Charger has you covered whether you're using Flooded, Gel, AGM, or Lithium batteries.

If you have any questions regarding this product, please call us at 1 (909) 287-7111 or email sales@renogy.com.

KEY FEATURES

• Designed to charge service batteries from two DC inputs—solar panels and alternator.
• Built-in Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) to maximize the solar power.
• 3-phase charging profile (Bulk, Boost, and Float) ensures your service battery will be accurately charged at the correct voltage levels to 100%.
• Built-in Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) for easy setup with traditional alternators.
• Compatible with smart alternators (with variable output voltage).
• Trickle charges the starting battery via solar panels if the service battery is fully charged.
• Isolation of the starting battery and the service battery.
• Temperature and voltage compensation features prolong battery life and improve system performance.
• Smart Protection Features: battery isolation, over-voltage protection, battery temperature protection, over-current protection, overheat protection, reverse current protection, solar panel and alternator reverse polarity protection.
• Compatible with multiple battery types: AGM, GEL, Flooded, and Lithium.
• Compact with a sturdy design, it was built tough for all conditions.

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SPECIFICATIONS
System Voltage : 12VDC Battery Voltage Range : 9-16VDC
Maximum Charging Current : 50A (25A Alternator / 25A PV) Battery Type : SLA, GEL, FLD, LI, USER
Backup Battery Charging Mode : MPPT Charging Efficiency : Up to 97%
Max. Solar Input Voltage : 25V Maximum Solar Input Power : 660W
Alternator Input Voltage : Traditional Alternator: 13.2-16VDC Smart Alternator (Euro 6): 12-16VDC"

Maximum Alternator Input Power : 660W
Self-consumption : 60mA Operating Temperature Range : -22°F~149°F / ﹣35°C~65°C
Dimensions : 9.6 x 5.7 x 3.0 in / 244 x 146 x 77 mm Weight : 3.13 lbs / 1.42 kg

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Accessories 1-year material warranty


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some details from the install,


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DCC50S 12V 50A DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT

https://www.renogy.com/content/RBC50D1S-G1/RRBC50D1S-G1-Manual.pdf

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Renogy-DC-..._1_3?keywords=renogy+dc&qid=1574256131&sr=8-3

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fwiw I've just gone on Amazon UK and grabbed one.

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[Farnorthsurfer]

Thanks @Dellmassive I was just about to post about which Victron components to buy to ensure LTD and other functions when I saw your latest post.
Looks a lot cheaper than a set of Victron parts.

 

[mrdanielmh]

This is a fantastic resource! Well done for putting the effort into making this available!

I'm currently going through the design phase for my vehicle, there are so many options! I'm certain that I'd like Lithium, around 100AH and I was looking at the ABSO DMT1250 unit to simplify everything.

Has anyone got a similar setup?

Thanks!

 

[Dellmassive]

@czmate1999 has bought these to my attention - the specs look good and the price fair: Thanks dude =]

LiFePO4 Battery UK | 20+ Years' Expertise | Quality Source

LiFePO4 Li-ION HD Series Battery
LiFePO4 Li-ION HD Series Deep Cycle Leisure Batteries are Heavy Duty, Robust construction designed for use in Cars, Commercial Vehicles, Motor Boats, Yachts, Caravans, Campervans, RV's and other high demand applications.

LiFePO4 Batteries should not be charged below 0 degrees centigrade. So external charge controllers are recommended IF the battery is fitted in a location that can be below 0 degrees whilst charging. Quality source’s Novel series batteries Incorporate a smart Battery management system, that not only shows the actual battery temperature, but also disconnects charging when the temperature is below or above the preset parameters,


LiFePO4 Li-ION HD Series Battery




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12V 100Ah Lithium Battery LiFePO4 HD Series
12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery (HD)
Deep cycle leisure battery that is ideally suited for use in power boats, sailing craft, canal boats, caravans, motor homes, RV’s, off-road winch batteries, Land Rover winch batteries, invalid carriages, personal mobility scooters. Infrequently used classic and second cars, motorsport, garden machinery tractors, electric vehicles at 12V, 24V,36V,48V through series connections. Electric trolling motors. Mobile Electric lift trucks, Powered trolleys etc.

FEATURES

HD series lithium battery using LiFePO4 battery cells offer the following advantages:

◆ Longer life compared to lead acid battery more than 2000 cycle life. Guaranteed greater than 80% capacity after 2000 cycles*of 80% discharge. (1 cycle per day = 5.4 years!) with reduced % discharge the batteries will last much longer than this, with 4000-6000+ cycles usually achieved, depending on charge discharge rates and operation temperature etc.

◆ Up to 60% weight saving

◆ 100% usable capacity (100Ah LiFePO4 approximately offers the same usable energy as a 160Ah Lead Acid battery) due to offering full voltage and current even when 80% discharged, compared to lead acid that typically only offers the required voltage at upto 50% discharged.

◆ More energy with 1/3 smaller size

◆ Less than 3% self discharging per month.

◆ Built in safety protection

◆ Zero maintenance

◆ Easy installation

◆ Eco-friendly

◆ Quality guaranteed, 7 year warranty upto 2000 cycles. *As determined from integral BMS.

◆ Fast charging, Charge at 20Amps in under 5 hours from flat with one of our high performance chargers.

◆Can be connected in series upto 4 units to make 24V, 36V or 48V 100Ah system. Using internal BMS no other controller needed.

or

◆ Can be connected in parallel upto 4 units to make 200Ah, 300Ah or 400Ah 12V system. Using internal BMS no other controller needed.

SPECIFICATIONS

Items Parameter
Battery Type LiFePO4
Nominal Voltage 12.8V
Nominal Capacity 100Ah
Energy 1.28KWh
Internal Resistance ≤20mΩ
Series & Parallel Application up to 4 series 4 parallel connected application
Limited Charge Voltage 14.6±0.2V
Floating Charge Voltage 13.8±0.2V
Charge Method CC/CV
Discharge Cut-off Voltage 10.0V
Standard Charge Current 20A (100Ah max charge rate)
Max. Continuous Discharge Current (<30min) 100A
Pulse Discharge Current (<5s) 200-400A
Cycle Life >2000 cycles
Dimension Length: 329±2mm
Width: 172±2mm
Height: 214±2mm
Weight 15±0.2Kg
Operation Temperature Range Charge: 0~45℃;
Discharge: -20~60℃
Recommended operating temperature: 15℃~35℃
Self-Discharge Rate Residual capacity: ≤3%/month; ≤15%/years
Reversible capacity: ≤1.5%/month; ≤8%/years
Storage Temperature & Humidity Range Less than 1 month: -20℃~35℃, 45%RH~75%RH
Less than 3 months: -10℃~35℃, 45%RH~75%RH
Recommended storage environment: 15℃~35℃，45%RH~75%RH


Quality standards:

CE marked tested to EU Council Directive 2014/30/EU Electromagnetic Compatibility

test std. EN 61000-6-3: 2007+A1: 2011 EN 61000-6-1: 2007.

For most customers running an inverter Quality Source LiFePO4 batteries by POLINOVEL of similar size to lead acid,AGM etc will almost double the time you can run your inverter for. As LiFePO4 batteries can be drained to 80-100% of quoted capacity and will continue to deliver full voltage at much lower state of charge compared to lead acid batteries that drop voltage under heavy loads and reduce voltage progressively from a state of charge below 50%.

The extra Usable capacity of LiFePO4 and the very long cycle life 4-8 times that of lead acid make LiFePO4 cheaper in the long run and much more environmentally friendly.

Over their lifespan 1 x LiFePO4 100Ah battery offers the same usable energy as almost 2 lead acid 80Ah units that would need to be changed 4 x before the LiFePO4 is at 80% of its original storage capacity. LiFePO4 is not 8 x more expensive than a good lead acid 500 cycle guaranteed battery and contains 8 x less plastic than lead acid units.

1 x LiFePO4 battery at 14.6kg replaces 8 x 19Kg = 152kg of toxic lead and concentrated sulphuric acid during its lifetime. With associated carbon emissions to move these over their lifecycle.

Quality Source, buy well, Buy once to last.


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[Dellmassive]

RV with Tito: (uses LTD with Heatmats !! )

DIY Lithium Battery Rack for Small RV Compartment - Full Build

MORE ABOUT THIS EPISODE I wanted to do something a little different while upgrading my 450Ah AGM battery bank to 400 Ah of Lithium (LiFePO4) batteries. My list of improvements included making the battery terminals more accessible, making more efficient use of the small space, adding thermostatically controlled heating pads and cool LED lighting. Of course, I needed to keep the batteries secure. For that, I built a custom aluminum frame. I also wanted to make use of spare parts and materials I already had on-hand (heating pads, LEDs, switches). I picked up the aluminum and acrylic from Lowes.

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[Dellmassive]

v1(black) Valence U27-12xp 12v 130Ah on ebay again

Lifepo4 12v 130 ah tested 3 month guarantee 5 cycles or less Valence batteries | eBay




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[mrdanielmh]

Are these still you recommended Lithium battery choice?

 

[Dellmassive]

they are second hand so you will have to decide for yourself . . . . (130ah for £399 used)

i have two of the green ones that are fine . . . . (as above testing)

But for Valence themselves they are rated as one of the best regards to build quality . . . . . .

Have a look inside one with Will >>>>

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[Dellmassive]

Lifepo4 Lithium Batteries - whats inside? -


$950 "Battle Born" Battery Tear Down

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$1,248 Valence RT LiFeMgPO4 Battery Tear Down

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Opening a Defective $700 Ruixu 100ah 12v LiFePO4 Solar Battery! You won't believe this..

pt1.

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Ruixu Problems Part 2: $700 Battery They Sent for Youtube Review had a Different BMS...
pt2.

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Ruixu Problems Part 3: Ruixu's Response

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Solar Generator Tear Down: Jackery, Safari LT, ExpertPower and Cheap No Name

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[mrdanielmh]

Just came across these, not sure if you have seen them, seem well specced for the price?

100 AH LifePo4 Lithium Battery Ultra edge, Leisure battery, solar, motorhome | eBay