Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

[Dellmassive]

1486 CYCLE, VALENCE LiFePO4 12v BATTERY 130Ah 1.6Kwh U27-12XP / LITHIUM SOLAR T4

1486 CYCLE, VALENCE LiFePO4 12v BATTERY 130Ah 1.6Kwh U27-12XP / LITHIUM SOLAR T4 | eBay

 

[andys]

!!! HAS RENOGY JUST SOLVED ALL OUR PROBLEMS IN ONE UNIT !!!!

Heres a new solution to LTD with Lifepo4 Batteries:

A 50A DC-DC charger with built in MPPT,

That has a lithium profile WITH Low Temp Disconnect,

That will reverse charge the starter battery !!!!!

That has a IGNITION feed for smart alternator.

The only downside i see is a 25v max VOC solar input (but you can parallel panels to get around that) (But will be still using the Victron MPPT kit alongside anyway)

************************************
View attachment 54974

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DESCRIPTION
Renogy's DCC50S DC to DC MPPT on-board Battery Charger is designed to give you options! This multi-stage, multi-input battery charger can charge a service battery from an alternator connected to a starting battery or by utilizing solar panels connected directly to the unit. While your vehicle's alternator prioritizes your starting battery, this unit will allow your solar system to charge your service battery first! It's the smart way to keep yourself fully charged and off-grid longer! And with multi-stage charging and multi-chemistry functionality, Renogy's DC to DC MPPT Charger has you covered whether you're using Flooded, Gel, AGM, or Lithium batteries.

If you have any questions regarding this product, please call us at 1 (909) 287-7111 or email sales@renogy.com.

KEY FEATURES

• Designed to charge service batteries from two DC inputs—solar panels and alternator.
• Built-in Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) to maximize the solar power.
• 3-phase charging profile (Bulk, Boost, and Float) ensures your service battery will be accurately charged at the correct voltage levels to 100%.
• Built-in Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) for easy setup with traditional alternators.
• Compatible with smart alternators (with variable output voltage).
• Trickle charges the starting battery via solar panels if the service battery is fully charged.
• Isolation of the starting battery and the service battery.
• Temperature and voltage compensation features prolong battery life and improve system performance.
• Smart Protection Features: battery isolation, over-voltage protection, battery temperature protection, over-current protection, overheat protection, reverse current protection, solar panel and alternator reverse polarity protection.
• Compatible with multiple battery types: AGM, GEL, Flooded, and Lithium.
• Compact with a sturdy design, it was built tough for all conditions.

.

SPECIFICATIONS
System Voltage : 12VDC Battery Voltage Range : 9-16VDC
Maximum Charging Current : 50A (25A Alternator / 25A PV) Battery Type : SLA, GEL, FLD, LI, USER
Backup Battery Charging Mode : MPPT Charging Efficiency : Up to 97%
Max. Solar Input Voltage : 25V Maximum Solar Input Power : 660W
Alternator Input Voltage : Traditional Alternator: 13.2-16VDC Smart Alternator (Euro 6): 12-16VDC"

Maximum Alternator Input Power : 660W
Self-consumption : 60mA Operating Temperature Range : -22°F~149°F / ﹣35°C~65°C
Dimensions : 9.6 x 5.7 x 3.0 in / 244 x 146 x 77 mm Weight : 3.13 lbs / 1.42 kg

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Accessories 1-year material warranty


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some details from the install,

View attachment 54975
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View attachment 54976

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View attachment 54977

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View attachment 54978

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View attachment 54979

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View attachment 54980

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View attachment 54981

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View attachment 54982

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************************************

DCC50S 12V 50A DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT

https://www.renogy.com/content/RBC50D1S-G1/RRBC50D1S-G1-Manual.pdf

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Renogy-DC-..._1_3?keywords=renogy+dc&qid=1574256131&sr=8-3

***********************************

fwiw I've just gone on Amazon UK and grabbed one.

.

Is this really the answer though? A maximum alternator charge of 25A doesn’t seem much better than my 20A Ctek, particularly as I thought lithium would benefit from a much higher charging current and there are 30A and 40A chargers already available? And 25v maximum open circuit voltage means it couldn’t handle my 250W which frequently hits 32v+

 

[Dellmassive]

Is this really the answer though? A maximum alternator charge of 25A doesn’t seem much better than my 20A Ctek, particularly as I thought lithium would benefit from a much higher charging current and there are 30A and 40A chargers already available? And 25v maximum open circuit voltage means it couldn’t handle my 250W which frequently hits 32v+

@andys ....

I've read the spec 10 times over, yet still managed to over look that little point......25A alt + 25A PV = 50A

I assumed it was 50A alt max, but 25A PV max.... and 25A reverse charge.....

So as you rightly say, its 25A + 25A......

So i still think it's a move in the right direction with the built in temp and mppt etc.....

And agree that 25A is a bit low for a large lithium....

I'm glad I still have the Redarc 1250D ti test after.

 

[Long tall John]

@andys ....

I've read the spec 10 times over, yet still managed to over look that little point......25A alt + 25A PV = 50A

I assumed it was 50A alt max, but 25A PV max.... and 25A reverse charge.....

So as you rightly say, its 25A + 25A......

So i still think it's a move in the right direction with the built in temp and mppt etc.....

And agree that 25A is a bit low for a large lithium....

I'm glad I still have the Redarc 1250D ti test after.

 

[andys]

View attachment 55145

That's very confusing. I wonder if they've understood the question?

 

[Long tall John]

That's very confusing. I wonder if they've understood the question?

I flipping hope so I've just ordered one!!!

 

[Long tall John]

After rereading it, I'm not sure how you could miss understand that question.

 

[andys]

I've just found the same question repeated again further down (along with mention of an upcoming 60A version) so it's definitely right. So it's a good option as long as you're using a seperate MPPT for solar, but that does make it a bit expensive. Probably the only option at the moment though if you want to charge a lithium battery at 50A from the alternator

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

The benefit of low temp cutoff to a lithium would be lost using a separate MTTP unit no?
Would like to get a simple solution rather than multiple units and complicated set up.
Is the 25+25 limit really such a problem in real world use?

 

[Long tall John]

I've just found the same question repeated again further down (along with mention of an upcoming 60A version) so it's definitely right. So it's a good option as long as you're using a seperate MPPT for solar, but that does make it a bit expensive. Probably the only option at the moment though if you want to charge a lithium battery at 50A from the alternator

Just found the same question asked a different way myself

 

[andys]

The benefit of low temp cutoff to a lithium would be lost using a separate MTTP unit no?
Would like to get a simple solution rather than multiple units and complicated set up.
Is the 25+25 limit really such a problem in real world use?

It means the current from the alternator would be no more than most other, smaller, DC/DC chargers on the market, and would probably limit you to max solar of around 150W which would make it unusable to me as I have a 250W panel. The 25A solar capacity is a bit of a red herring. The low temperature cutoff is great but you won't get anything near to 25A of solar, unless you maybe fit 4 x small 50W panels instead of one big one and parallel them to keep the open circuit voltage low enough. It would probably have been more useful if it were split 35A alternator/15A solar.

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

@andys thanks for the info, learning all the time here.
I think about a 160w Solar panel will be more than adequate for my modest needs and I was looking at a 100Ahr lithium. So although I appreciate the alternator will take longer than it otherwise might to get the lithium charged up a modest system like that should work fine with the Renogy unit and benefit from LTD which I think is important up here in Scotland.
What do you think?

 

[andys]

@andys thanks for the info, learning all the time here.
I think about a 160w Solar panel will be more than adequate for my modest needs and I was looking at a 100Ahr lithium. So although I appreciate the alternator will take longer than it otherwise might to get the lithium charged up a modest system like that should work fine with the Renogy unit and benefit from LTD which I think is important up here in Scotland.
What do you think?

I'm no expert on this stuff, @Dellmassive is your man for charging and lithium advice, I'm just looking at the specs and seeing if it moves the game on enough for me to swap over. Remember when you're working out your requirements a 160W panel will never give you 160W though, 130W under perfect conditions, but often under half that.

 

[Dellmassive]

The benefit of low temp cutoff to a lithium would be lost using a separate MTTP unit no?
Would like to get a simple solution rather than multiple units and complicated set up.
Is the 25+25 limit really such a problem in real world use?

The victron mppt has LTD when connected to the BMV712 with temp sensor

 

[Dellmassive]

I'll see if I can swap out the dc-dc and fit the renogy for some testing....

The victron 12/12/30 has proved its self very capable as we would expect...... just a shame it's not implementing any low temp cutoff by using VE data ( @victron take note !!! ) . . I've made a request on the forum.

So from what I'm reading the renogy will deliver the 50A from alt, the same as the redarc bcdc1250d....

And will take solar mppt, same as the 1250d.....

But at what % split we are unsure yet..... hopefully its proportional....

But the renogy has the low temp lithium cut off that the Redarc doesn't....

Oh... also the renogy has solar reverse charge of the starter like the ctek unit......which the Redarc doesn't.

 

[travelvolts]

!!! HAS RENOGY JUST SOLVED ALL OUR PROBLEMS IN ONE UNIT !!!!

Heres a new solution to LTD with Lifepo4 Batteries:

A 50A DC-DC charger with built in MPPT,

That has a lithium profile WITH Low Temp Disconnect,

That will reverse charge the starter battery !!!!!

That has a IGNITION feed for smart alternator.

The only downside i see is a 25v max VOC solar input (but you can parallel panels to get around that) (But will be still using the Victron MPPT kit alongside anyway)

************************************
View attachment 54974

.
DESCRIPTION
Renogy's DCC50S DC to DC MPPT on-board Battery Charger is designed to give you options! This multi-stage, multi-input battery charger can charge a service battery from an alternator connected to a starting battery or by utilizing solar panels connected directly to the unit. While your vehicle's alternator prioritizes your starting battery, this unit will allow your solar system to charge your service battery first! It's the smart way to keep yourself fully charged and off-grid longer! And with multi-stage charging and multi-chemistry functionality, Renogy's DC to DC MPPT Charger has you covered whether you're using Flooded, Gel, AGM, or Lithium batteries.

If you have any questions regarding this product, please call us at 1 (909) 287-7111 or email sales@renogy.com.

KEY FEATURES

• Designed to charge service batteries from two DC inputs—solar panels and alternator.
• Built-in Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) to maximize the solar power.
• 3-phase charging profile (Bulk, Boost, and Float) ensures your service battery will be accurately charged at the correct voltage levels to 100%.
• Built-in Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) for easy setup with traditional alternators.
• Compatible with smart alternators (with variable output voltage).
• Trickle charges the starting battery via solar panels if the service battery is fully charged.
• Isolation of the starting battery and the service battery.
• Temperature and voltage compensation features prolong battery life and improve system performance.
• Smart Protection Features: battery isolation, over-voltage protection, battery temperature protection, over-current protection, overheat protection, reverse current protection, solar panel and alternator reverse polarity protection.
• Compatible with multiple battery types: AGM, GEL, Flooded, and Lithium.
• Compact with a sturdy design, it was built tough for all conditions.

.

SPECIFICATIONS
System Voltage : 12VDC Battery Voltage Range : 9-16VDC
Maximum Charging Current : 50A (25A Alternator / 25A PV) Battery Type : SLA, GEL, FLD, LI, USER
Backup Battery Charging Mode : MPPT Charging Efficiency : Up to 97%
Max. Solar Input Voltage : 25V Maximum Solar Input Power : 660W
Alternator Input Voltage : Traditional Alternator: 13.2-16VDC Smart Alternator (Euro 6): 12-16VDC"

Maximum Alternator Input Power : 660W
Self-consumption : 60mA Operating Temperature Range : -22°F~149°F / ﹣35°C~65°C
Dimensions : 9.6 x 5.7 x 3.0 in / 244 x 146 x 77 mm Weight : 3.13 lbs / 1.42 kg

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Accessories 1-year material warranty


.

some details from the install,

View attachment 54975
.
View attachment 54976

.

View attachment 54977

.

View attachment 54978

.
View attachment 54979

.

View attachment 54980

.

View attachment 54981

.

View attachment 54982

.






************************************

DCC50S 12V 50A DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT

https://www.renogy.com/content/RBC50D1S-G1/RRBC50D1S-G1-Manual.pdf

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Renogy-DC-..._1_3?keywords=renogy+dc&qid=1574256131&sr=8-3

***********************************

fwiw I've just gone on Amazon UK and grabbed one.

.

But, it's only 25 amp max on each input so a bit under powered for your set up????

 

[travelvolts]

@andys thanks for the info, learning all the time here.
I think about a 160w Solar panel will be more than adequate for my modest needs and I was looking at a 100Ahr lithium. So although I appreciate the alternator will take longer than it otherwise might to get the lithium charged up a modest system like that should work fine with the Renogy unit and benefit from LTD which I think is important up here in Scotland.
What do you think?

If you only have "modest" demands why go the Lithium route, given the complications that come with it? Wouldn't you be better off with a quality AGM battery and spend the money on the charging system instead? It's a matter of balancing things. At the end of the day, a flat battery is a flat battery, whatever its chemistry. Once you get to this point then how quickly you can re charge it becomes the priority

 

[Dellmassive]

But, it's only 25 amp max on each input so a bit under powered for your set up????

I've emailed tech support, as there seems to be some confusion about the listed ratings.

The alternator feed wire is listed as 75A cable with 60A fuse . . . . for a 50A draw?

but spec says 25A+25A @ 50A

yet Renogy have said 50A with no solar . . . . . . so we need clarification.

 

[travelvolts]

Be nice if it can do 50 on one input. Might stock it at that price point to keep you Lithium freaks happy!

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

If you only have "modest" demands why go the Lithium route, given the complications that come with it? Wouldn't you be better off with a quality AGM battery and spend the money on the charging system instead? It's a matter of balancing things. At the end of the day, a flat battery is a flat battery, whatever its chemistry. Once you get to this point then how quickly you can re charge it becomes the priority

Appreciate the advice and am considering the possibility of installing AGM to begin with and maybe in a few years time upgrading to lithium as I think the prices will fall. The TN batteries you stock look good and very price competitive but bang for buck an AGM might be a better bet.
As the charging equipment need to be wired up and fitted it would be harder to replace in the future than a like for like battery.
I will need to get my first fix wiring ordered and mostly in before the pop top and panels are done a time the end of January. Make my mind up time is approaching