Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

[Dellmassive]

Did I mention i bought a ECO-Worthy Lifepo4?

this was OCT/NOV 2023. . . . but looks like i missed doing the post?

100Ah 12.8v


View attachment 226139

Right, so getting back to this. . . ECO-WORTHY 100Ah Lifepo4

while abroad sunning it up in Spain for a while this popped up. . .

£279.99 seemed like a good deal, so i got one.

and that Shunt looked nice to, and as these battery's have a BMS, but no BT or screen, i though id get that to go with it.



back home in Blighty this is what arrived . . .


a well packaged lifpo4 . . .




it come with a set of bolts, and a install guide . . .

3000+ cycles,
10 yr life span,
built in BMS,

12.8v 100Ah - Lifepo4








its good to see the info of the lable on the battery. . .

and they make good point about charging and discharging outside of these temps. . .


NO Charge below 0c.

No discharge below -20c.


this is because, as far as i can see there is no LOW TEMP Protection in this battery. . . . . .

No charge blocking - Nothing.

Its down to you to ensure your setup has the required cold temp protection.. . .

+++++++++

Low voltage protection, not tested yet - the sticker shows 10v - 14.6v.

++++++++++



the first thing i do is get it into one of my battery boxes, it fits nice.

a slightly different shape than the Renogy and Poweroad - but fits all the same.


the battery box already has a Victron Smart shunt fitted - so ill use that for monitoring for the meantime.





+++

over to the manual, its actually nice to see some good detailed information. . .

which to be fair it should have seeing as there is no BT App, or anything else to tell you what the battery is doing.



they mention storage 5-40c,


and that long term storage should be 50-80% SoC.

do not leave at 100% for long storage times,

and to recharge every 2months for 1hr.

oh

and dont leave low state for any time 5% SoC


.



.



they give a nice chart detailing. . .

voltage vs SoC, . . eg

13.46v @ 100%
13.23v @ 50%
13.06v @ 20%
12.85v @ 10%

its always best to keep the batterys above 20% low point - that way they will last longer overall = more charge cycles vs running them dead flat each time.


they also show wire gauge chart:

14awg - 20A
8awg - 50A
4awg - 85A




.


nice . . .


this is it dropped into the battery box and linked in.

we have the 50A MIDI fuse block,

with 50A Andersonn conectors for IN & Out,

plus the Victron Smart Shunt for voltage and capacity monitoring. . .




then we get it right on charge from the solar shed.





that was then . . . . .

two months later. . . after forgetting about it. . .

weve moved on a bit.

its been added with another two battery boxes.

they hold the HEATED Poweroad 100Ah lifepo4`s.

and are all connected together. . .

we have three 100ah stack giving us 300Ah for the solar shed.

that's all charged via the 100/20 MPPT Victron unit, with 400Wp solar up top.>



monitoring is via the Victron shunt . .






temp control is an issue as the Eco-Worthy doesnt have low temp protection. . .


so while the battery is connected to the stack I've set the 100/20 MPPT solar charger to default LIFEPO4 charge profile.

this profile limits charging below 5c.

BUT. . .

i doesn't have its own temp sensor, you need to add one,

i have a smart battery sense and a temp sensor on the Smart BMV that shares the temp data, , ,

that means it wont charge when its loo cold. . .


..

pic limit reached.







.













.

 

[Dellmassive]

Right, so getting back to this. . . ECO-WORTHY 100Ah Lifepo4

while abroad sunning it up in Spain for a while this popped up. . .

£279.99 seemed like a good deal, so i got one.

and that Shunt looked nice to, and as these battery's have a BMS, but no BT or screen, i though id get that to go with it.

View attachment 227349View attachment 227350

back home in Blighty this is what arrived . . .


a well packaged lifpo4 . . .

View attachment 227351


it come with a set of bolts, and a install guide . . .

3000+ cycles,
10 yr life span,
built in BMS,

12.8v 100Ah - Lifepo4

View attachment 227352

View attachment 227353

View attachment 227362


its good to see the info of the lable on the battery. . .

and they make good point about charging and discharging outside of these temps. . .


NO Charge below 0c.

No discharge below -20c.


this is because, as far as i can see there is no LOW TEMP Protection in this battery. . . . . .

No charge blocking - Nothing.

Its down to you to ensure your setup has the required cold temp protection.. . .

+++++++++

Low voltage protection, not tested yet - the sticker shows 10v - 14.6v.

++++++++++



the first thing i do is get it into one of my battery boxes, it fits nice.

a slightly different shape than the Renogy and Poweroad - but fits all the same.


the battery box already has a Victron Smart shunt fitted - so ill use that for monitoring for the meantime.


View attachment 227354


+++

over to the manual, its actually nice to see some good detailed information. . .

which to be fair it should have seeing as there is no BT App, or anything else to tell you what the battery is doing.

View attachment 227355

they mention storage 5-40c,


and that long term storage should be 50-80% SoC.

do not leave at 100% for long storage times,

and to recharge every 2months for 1hr.

oh

and dont leave low state for any time 5% SoC

View attachment 227356
.

View attachment 227357

.

View attachment 227358

they give a nice chart detailing. . .

voltage vs SoC, . . eg

13.46v @ 100%
13.23v @ 50%
13.06v @ 20%
12.85v @ 10%

its always best to keep the batterys above 20% low point - that way they will last longer overall = more charge cycles vs running them dead flat each time.


they also show wire gauge chart:

14awg - 20A
8awg - 50A
4awg - 85A


View attachment 227359

.


nice . . .


this is it dropped into the battery box and linked in.

we have the 50A MIDI fuse block,

with 50A Andersonn conectors for IN & Out,

plus the Victron Smart Shunt for voltage and capacity monitoring. . .

View attachment 227364


then we get it right on charge from the solar shed.

View attachment 227365



that was then . . . . .

two months later. . . after forgetting about it. . .

weve moved on a bit.

its been added with another two battery boxes.

they hold the HEATED Poweroad 100Ah lifepo4`s.

and are all connected together. . .

we have three 100ah stack giving us 300Ah for the solar shed.

that's all charged via the 100/20 MPPT Victron unit, with 400Wp solar up top.>

View attachment 227367View attachment 227368

monitoring is via the Victron shunt . .

View attachment 227369View attachment 227370View attachment 227371




temp control is an issue as the Eco-Worthy doesnt have low temp protection. . .


so while the battery is connected to the stack I've set the 100/20 MPPT solar charger to default LIFEPO4 charge profile.

this profile limits charging below 5c.

BUT. . .

i doesn't have its own temp sensor, you need to add one,

i have a smart battery sense and a temp sensor on the Smart BMV that shares the temp data, , ,

that means it wont charge when its loo cold. . .


..

pic limit reached.







.













.

View attachment 227372

following on . . .



this is the temp sensors . .









and they feed via BT into the MPPT. . . .







they all connect in to the Victron Cloud APP.

im running Venus OS on a raspberry Pi, atm.

but you can also use the CERBO GX,

or the new CERBO-S GX ( perfect for us van dwellers)


you can also add in the BT RUUVI sensors for temp data -




.





++++++++









.

 

[jimthevan]

I seem to get brain melt when it comes to electrics - in dumbass terms is the Ecoworthy battery any good? compared to renology etc?

 

[Dellmassive]

I seem to get brain melt when it comes to electrics - in dumbass terms is the Ecoworthy battery any good? compared to renology etc?

Big range and big choice these days.

Ecoworthy offer a budget price.

And do litime.

Renogy also offer budget range.

But the cheaper ones don't have an app, so you don't know what they doing....unless you add an external shunt....

Then there is low temp charge protection that the cheaper ones don't have.

***

I'd say look for a lithium that has an App. And low temp charge protection.

Renogy smart and BT versions have those features..... The CORE range doesn't.(need to check the core range details)

 

[Farnorthsurfer]

You were talking about the Renogy DC-DC were you @jimthevan ? In which case it will handle low temperature cut off preventing charging the LifPo when its below 4 degrees I think. This works fine on my set up.
Paying more money will buy you a set up with a battery heater which will improve charge and discharge performance at low temperatures but its never been a problem for me in the North of Scotland so unless your a dedicated off grid winter camper you may not need a more expensive solution.

Agreed, getting through all of the @Dellmassive information database on electrics, charging and solar is a task and could probably be the basis of a thesis but its worth persevering as the man knows his stuff and has posted some genuinely valuable information on here. I am certainly very grateful to him as my set up Is much better because of it.

 

[jimthevan]

You were talking about the Renogy DC-DC were you @jimthevan ? In which case it will handle low temperature cut off preventing charging the LifPo when its below 4 degrees I think. This works fine on my set up.
Paying more money will buy you a set up with a battery heater which will improve charge and discharge performance at low temperatures but its never been a problem for me in the North of Scotland so unless your a dedicated off grid winter camper you may not need a more expensive solution.

Agreed, getting through all of the @Dellmassive information database on electrics, charging and solar is a task and could probably be the basis of a thesis but its worth persevering as the man knows his stuff and has posted some genuinely valuable information on here. I am certainly very grateful to him as my set up Is much better because of it.

Thanks for the responses guys really appreciated.

I don’t think I’ll be going deep winter and your set up will do me more than fine I think.

I already have a victron mppt though so may just add a smart dc/dc to that .

Just trying to decide between AGM and lithium and what to invest in .
The lithium is very tempting as seems to be getting cheaper and better all the time.

Yeah I can see @Dellmassive is the man when is comes to electrics and probably more.

I just need to train the brain! but I’m sure I’ll be fine if I just follow all your guys good advice .

Thanks to you all

 

[jimthevan]

Big range and big choice these days.

Ecoworthy offer a budget price.

And do litime.

Renogy also offer budget range.

But the cheaper ones don't have an app, so you don't know what they doing....unless you add an external shunt....

Then there is low temp charge protection that the cheaper ones don't have.

***

I'd say look for a lithium that has an App. And low temp charge protection.

Renogy smart and BT versions have those features..... The CORE range doesn't.(need to check the core range details)

Thanks for the crystal clear advice there spot on

 

[Rioja John]

I seem to get brain melt when it comes to electrics - in dumbass terms is the Ecoworthy battery any good? compared to renology etc?

I’ve recently installed two Eco-worthy 100 ah batteries with a Eco worthy battery monitor to my van and they seem to be working ok but I have not used the van with this set up yet for camping, my first time will be the spring T6 meet this year.
I have been charging my Jackery 1000 power station from the Eco worthy batterys and using this in my garage, I also have fitted an isolator from my Victron charger, my Sterling B to B and my Victron solar set up so that no charge can go to batterys when below freezing.

John.

 

[roadtripper]

Personally I wouldn't discount the low temperature charge protection built in, if you don't have that be very sure your setup protects you.

Picture in this post is an Eco worthy most likely charged below freezing:

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

I pointed you towards the CTEK as you wanted to retain the nearly new AGM battery, leave room for a sub woofer but wanted the future option of solar and lithium. Also the thread from r00ps has a good walk through of a simple change from stock using a CTEK. If you want to do solar now then...

www.t6forum.com

This post is the explanation:

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

I have 2 of the eco-worthy fitted in my van. :eek: John.

www.t6forum.com

It may not freeze often in the UK but you absolutely don't want that happening under your seat on the day it does.

 

[Dellmassive]

check out the latest Budget 12v 100ah Lifepo4

LiTime 100ah Mini 12v Lifepo4 - How I Done It -

LiTime 100ah Mini 12v Lifepo4 - How I Done It - "LiTime 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery, Built-In 100A BMS, 1280Wh Energy" - for £299.99 ++++ what its got: over charge protection over - discharge protection over current protection high temp protection what its not got: low temp charge...

www.t6forum.com

+



++++

what its got:
over charge protection
over - discharge protection
over current protection
high temp protection

what its not got:
low temp charge protection
BT APP or SoC display (so you need to fit a separate shunt if you want a SoC gauge)

++++

lets take a look. . . . . . . .

+++++++




£299.99 --



+

https://amzn.to/3SgEyH2

+

 

[Dellmassive]

Got a new Bench Power Supply



(0-60v / 0-10A) (300w max)

its sweet . . . . my previous two bench supplies were 0-30v / 5A so this is a power bump





it will do 12v (upto 30v) @ 10A no problem. . .


but it will also do 48v @5A (48-52v) range for the Domestic solar stuff

+++

Solar Sheds & Other Non-t6 Solar Projects - How We Done It -

after that was the Growatt Hybrid inverter. plus another two 400w panels.

www.t6forum.com

+++





nice . .


check it out. . . https://amzn.to/42pTWWr

 

[TallPaul_S]

check out the latest Budget 12v 100ah Lifepo4

LiTime 100ah Mini 12v Lifepo4 - How I Done It -

LiTime 100ah Mini 12v Lifepo4 - How I Done It - "LiTime 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery, Built-In 100A BMS, 1280Wh Energy" - for £299.99 ++++ what its got: over charge protection over - discharge protection over current protection high temp protection what its not got: low temp charge...

www.t6forum.com

+
View attachment 227982


++++

what its got:
over charge protection
over - discharge protection
over current protection
high temp protection

what its not got:
low temp charge protection
BT APP or SoC display (so you need to fit a separate shunt if you want a SoC gauge)

++++

lets take a look. . . . . . . .

+++++++




£299.99 --



+

https://amzn.to/3SgEyH2

+

View attachment 227983

I don't know why anyone would buy one of these for £300 when for another £70 you can get a fogstar 105ah with a built in heater and BMS.

 

[Dellmassive]

a very good point. . .

IMHO . . . these days, in 2024.

all Lifepo4s should have, as part of the BMS:

over charge protection
over - discharge protection
over current protection
high temp protection
low temp charge protection
BT APP or SoC display


++++++++++

But . . .

there are people that use these types of battery's in multiple setups, for larger capacity.

or for larger voltage packs like 24v or 48v, and will have a master shunt, and master temp control etc etc . .

so saving every penny counts. . . un multiple units.



++++++++++


then there are the cheap sods, that will just go for the cheapest they can find - and dont understand the technology.



+++++++++++


either way - it seems to be a thing now as more and more manufactures are offering a BASIC RANGE with limited features. (even Renogy)


++++++++++++



but me personaly. . .

i love playing with these and testing them . . .


but the ones fitted in my vans, that i work in and sleep in?


Fogstar, Roamer, Renogy, Poweroad - basically known tested brands WITH APP & WITH Low Temp protection.

these Budget friendly units i use for the mobile battery boxes and solar shed projects etc etc.



..

 

[ginkster]

I seem to get brain melt when it comes to electrics - in dumbass terms is the Ecoworthy battery any good? compared to renology etc?

I considered the ecoworthy last year as they were about £210 during the Black Friday period. The lack of low temp charge protection was a show stopper for me though. Yes there are ways around it with external sensors or isolation switches, but these are either a faff or not as accurate as a sensor buried inside the battery case (right next to the cells). All it takes is one charge from the DC-DC or solar when it’s frozen inside to damage the battery. It would have made my van unusable, or needing to isolate the LB, in the freezing temperatures over the last few weeks. That’s nothing to do with camping, simply starting it. Instead I went for a Fogstar in the same BF sales for £299. Cold temp protection, heater, Bluetooth, UK support…. I don’t have any worries about managing the battery and with the heater it is fully usable year round. In my mind the Fogstar is definitely worth the extra cost over the Ecoworthy (or equivalent).

 

[roadtripper]

Got a new Bench Power Supply

Very interesting, have you had it long enough to rate it or is it currently doing the Dellmassive Real World Assault Course?

I'm in need of a decent power supply after I lost my last one in unfortunate circumstances (involving unexpected water) - not sure I need quite the power but I'd rather buy a known thing than gamble.

 

[Dellmassive]

Very interesting, have you had it long enough to rate it or is it currently doing the Dellmassive Real World Assault Course?

I'm in need of a decent power supply after I lost my last one in unfortunate circumstances (involving unexpected water) - not sure I need quite the power but I'd rather buy a known thing than gamble.

well. . .

after a couple of days researching for a "upto 60v PSU or charger" - which led me to this PSU,

then a day researching this specific unit. . .

and finding out a design floor. . . "PCB flex on knocking over causing short circuit + fail"



here:

pics:



pics:


i decided to go with it. . . as the other reviews looked good for my use cases.

but also got some EPOXY BOARD sheets ordered. . . . to retro fit inside the case, to prevent similar happening to my unit. (incase it gets knocked over - and, in my not sterile shed, back street garage Lab setup those chances are very high)

ill cut a sheet down and stick to the inside of the case to insulate the PCB from the side case.

assuming this unit is the same - and they haven't changed the design to add additional support.

++++++++++++++++

https://amzn.to/3HJSBA8

++++++++++++++++








+++++++++

and yes i did take into account the noise levels that some of the reviews mentioned,.

and that even the User guide mentions filter caps to get the rated specs. . . which is well cheeky IMHO!!

But, . the unit suits my needs, (100mV pk-pk ripple - but its a PWM PSU so some noise is expected and has no effect when powering 12v/24v/48v kit)

https://static.eleshop.nl/mage/media/downloads/OWONSPEpowersupply.pdf

https://static.eleshop.nl/mage/media/downloads/2SPEseriesSingleOutputPowerSupplyUSER_MANUAL_V1.0.220230225.pdf

+++++++++
OWON vid:

+++++++++




getting back to your question. . .

its just arrived today . . so its running some 12v Victron kit sitting next to me on the bench.

ill wait till i get the epoxy board before i take it out and about.

once that fitted, ill get it out to the solar shed,

ill get it on the 50v domestic solar stuff.


and it will be great for testing solar PV for MPPTS`s and the like . . . 0-60V @ 300w max.

most 12v MPPTs are now starting to increase the VOC from 25v to 50V - which is great to see . . . the new Renogy DC50S has 50V VOC - so will be good to test that.

50v @ 6A @300w

.



.






.

 

[roadtripper]

and that even the User guide mentions filter caps to get the rated specs. . . which is well cheeky IMHO!!

That is... bold indeed. "We saved 20cents but you can spend the money if you like"

 

[Raul a/3]

What would you use the 60v for?

 

[Dellmassive]

Not 60v parsay.

But 54v/55v . . . For the domestic solar stuff...... For waking up discharged batteries..... Enough for the BMS to wake and start charging.


.....

Apart from that 60v can be used for solar mppt testing... As a seudo solar panel.
....

 

[Raul a/3]

Not 60v parsay.

But 54v/55v . . . For the domestic solar stuff...... For waking up discharged batteries..... Enough for the BMS to wake and start charging.

View attachment 228105
.....

Apart from that 60v can be used for solar mppt testing... As a seudo solar panel.
....

You are aware that US2000 it’s a 15s and the US5000 it’s a 16S, probably you know already, they are not to be in the same system.