Living in Wales with 20mph limit #regen

[DXX]

Who wants to cycle to work when it is 20 plus miles away and 90% of the time its pissing with rain

I did a 2x 9 mile commute on my MTB (road and bridleway) every weekday for 2 years because we could only afford one car and my ex was too lazy to do the 20 min walk to school with the kids.
Yes winter weather isn’t fun when you were tucked up in bed 20 min’s earlier but you do get acclimatised.
I’ve worked a lot in Norway and we could learn a few lessons from them when it comes to choosing clothes!

 

[acompta]

I did a 2x 9 mile commute on my MTB (road and bridleway) every weekday for 2 years because we could only afford one car and my ex was too lazy to do the 20 min walk to school with the kids.
Yes winter weather isn’t fun when you were tucked up in bed 20 min’s earlier but you do get acclimatised.
I’ve worked a lot in Norway and we could learn a few lessons from them when it comes to choosing clothes!

When you are younger and the infrastructure supports it then I fully agree. Dripford here in Wales hasnt even got the basics right. Also when you are heading towards 60's and 70's its not for eveyone

 

[Keeff]

Should help drop housing prices as every one sells up and moves over the border.

 

[Proberts]

Living in Wales myself, I hate the 20 mpg stretches but it's only for short stretches I'm finding with us. Most of the time it 30, 40 or national speed limit. And mostly, the 20 mph stretches you couldn't do more than 20 before because of parked cars etc.

 

[Bav]

I thought that was part of the scheme to encourage more people to cycle and walk?
I’d definitely use my bike more if there was a 20MPH limit.

You'll always find that the people with such aspirations live where it's flat and where the roads aren't so narrow as to make cycling a death-defying activity.

 

[Proberts]

I thought that was part of the scheme to encourage more people to cycle and walk?
I’d definitely use my bike more if there was a 20MPH limit.

Oh god I hope not. Seen my fair share of beer bellies in lycra for a lifetime. Couldn't cope with more.
The scheme though was to cut down deaths on the roads.

 

[Andpopse]

I thought that was part of the scheme to encourage more people to cycle and walk?
I’d definitely use my bike more if there was a 20MPH limit.

But with a main A road the speed limit varies between 20 and 50. What are you going to do ? Get off and walk it in the faster sections to stay safe ? Wales is in turmoil !!!

 

[Proberts]

Lol. Wales is not in turmoil. It's residential areas with street lighting. The vast majority of roads are the same as they were last month.

 

[Magpie1832]

Living in Wales myself, I hate the 20 mpg stretches but it's only for short stretches I'm finding with us. Most of the time it 30, 40 or national speed limit. And mostly, the 20 mph stretches you couldn't do more than 20 before because of parked cars etc.

We live in colwyn bay, travel into Llandudno every week to shop. The drive along the promenade takes an age. Driving past the golf course you can watch them take two holes. There is a 400 yard section going uphill where it's 30 then it goes 40 for another 400 yards then drops to 20 again. Previously I have had a regen start at home, drove to Llandudno and its gone from 99% to 30% so I just drove around town for 5 minutes for it to finish usually 24%. But now it had gone from 99% to 64% then drove around town twice until it gave up at 34%.
I'll be monitoring the speed on which the dpf fills up at 20mph see if I get less miles before it regens. You may have to wait though because I only use at weekends as I live 200 yrds from work.

Lol. Wales is not in turmoil. It's residential areas with street lighting. The vast majority of roads are the same as they were last month.

It isn't all built up areas. There are many roads around here going through wooded areas no street lights but are 20mph. We only have 5 roads in the whole of conwy county that didn't drop to 20mph. Some of the 40mph sections dropped to 30mph and 50 to 40.

 

[Johnboy57]

I live in Swansea but used to work in Port Talbot - a 12mile cycle each way which I did most days for many years. It is not the most scenic route, much of which is right next to the dual carriageway. Many times have I been soaked by lorries or busses thundering past in bad weather. Nowadays, this main road is reduced to 40mph which seems really slow when you are on it, but bit by bit the motorists are slowing down and keeping to the limit. I am sure this is much safer and healthier for the cyclists (of which there are many due to the new University).
My cycling time was 40 minutes +/_ 5 minutes irrespective of what time I left. Car time was 25mins min - up to 50 mins max depending on traffic and the time I left the house. Also sometimes when taking the car, I would often deliberately leave early or stay later at work to avoid the traffic..... so bit by bit the case for cycling starts to make sense.
The soul destroying traffic is down to the traffic lights of which there are many ( I think my journey in the car would include 20 sets of lights ) and sheer volume of cars (95% with one person in) - but not the reduced speed limits.

When I wasn't cycling, I would take the car and generally be part of the rush hour, I would leave the house later than I should have and then invariably find myself in the outside lane "champing at the bit" because the car in front wasn't getting out of the way, accelerating into the gaps etc. etc. I would regularly pass one of my engineers pootling along in the inside lane (doing the speed limit) - but he would always pull into our works carpark a minute or so after me.
The last bit of my journey to work involved a fairly clear road which you could vent your frustrations after all the "nose to tail" driving and speed up a bit....... however this was actually a 30mph limit and the local constabulary eventually twigged that they could nick a few unsuspecting drivers (particularly those who had left the house late...). And so it was.
Several of my fellow directors were nicked for doing well over the 30 limit - not sure what the rules are on this but apart from the 3 points on the old licence and increased insurance - they all got landed with a hefty fine based upon their salary. Unfortunately some had just had a bonus which was included in the calculations - end result was a fine in excess of £2000

I do find the 50mph limits on the M4 more tedious than the new 20mph limits BUT everyone sticks to the limit because of the cameras, and I definitely get better mpg as a result. So I am slowly buying into the whole idea, even the 20mph limits (although I am probably doing an indicated 25mph).

I think we need to give the 20mph more time to see how it pans out. Electric bikes provide a fantastic way to get cars off the road and lower speed limits will surely help this - because they will not be building loads of cycle paths overnight. A recent visit to the Netherlands and Belgium showed me just how bad the UK is on the integrated travel. They are MILES ahead of us.

A footnote to this is that cycling to work improved my fitness immeasurably... I had a saying that each day I cycled I would save 4 1/2 pounds. That is £4 in petrol and 1/2 pound in weight.

Sadly, these days my cycling has stopped, and my weight is inexorably heading "north"

 

[DXX]

A recent visit to the Netherlands and Belgium showed me just how bad the UK is on the integrated travel. They are MILES ahead of us.

So true, the level of public transport snobbery in the UK is ridiculous.

 

[Lubrown]

You'll always find that the people with such aspirations live where it's flat and where the roads aren't so narrow as to make cycling a death-defying activity.

Sadly roads can be as wide as your imagination allows yet some motorists will still insist on overtaking cyclists close enough that you can’t even raise your arm to bang on their car to wake them up. I tried hard as well, just no room. The gap between their wing mirror and me was nonexistent. And that was on a road with plenty of space and nothing coming the other way.
Everyone that is able ought to be forced to ride a bike on public roads as part of their driving test.

 

[Lubrown]

I live in Swansea but used to work in Port Talbot - a 12mile cycle each way which I did most days for many years. It is not the most scenic route, much of which is right next to the dual carriageway. Many times have I been soaked by lorries or busses thundering past in bad weather. Nowadays, this main road is reduced to 40mph which seems really slow when you are on it, but bit by bit the motorists are slowing down and keeping to the limit. I am sure this is much safer and healthier for the cyclists (of which there are many due to the new University).
My cycling time was 40 minutes +/_ 5 minutes irrespective of what time I left. Car time was 25mins min - up to 50 mins max depending on traffic and the time I left the house. Also sometimes when taking the car, I would often deliberately leave early or stay later at work to avoid the traffic..... so bit by bit the case for cycling starts to make sense.
The soul destroying traffic is down to the traffic lights of which there are many ( I think my journey in the car would include 20 sets of lights ) and sheer volume of cars (95% with one person in) - but not the reduced speed limits.

When I wasn't cycling, I would take the car and generally be part of the rush hour, I would leave the house later than I should have and then invariably find myself in the outside lane "champing at the bit" because the car in front wasn't getting out of the way, accelerating into the gaps etc. etc. I would regularly pass one of my engineers pootling along in the inside lane (doing the speed limit) - but he would always pull into our works carpark a minute or so after me.
The last bit of my journey to work involved a fairly clear road which you could vent your frustrations after all the "nose to tail" driving and speed up a bit....... however this was actually a 30mph limit and the local constabulary eventually twigged that they could nick a few unsuspecting drivers (particularly those who had left the house late...). And so it was.
Several of my fellow directors were nicked for doing well over the 30 limit - not sure what the rules are on this but apart from the 3 points on the old licence and increased insurance - they all got landed with a hefty fine based upon their salary. Unfortunately some had just had a bonus which was included in the calculations - end result was a fine in excess of £2000

I do find the 50mph limits on the M4 more tedious than the new 20mph limits BUT everyone sticks to the limit because of the cameras, and I definitely get better mpg as a result. So I am slowly buying into the whole idea, even the 20mph limits (although I am probably doing an indicated 25mph).

I think we need to give the 20mph more time to see how it pans out. Electric bikes provide a fantastic way to get cars off the road and lower speed limits will surely help this - because they will not be building loads of cycle paths overnight. A recent visit to the Netherlands and Belgium showed me just how bad the UK is on the integrated travel. They are MILES ahead of us.

A footnote to this is that cycling to work improved my fitness immeasurably... I had a saying that each day I cycled I would save 4 1/2 pounds. That is £4 in petrol and 1/2 pound in weight.

Sadly, these days my cycling has stopped, and my weight is inexorably heading "north"

Spot on.

 

[FerrisBFW]

I wish the UK would stop spending money on odd cycling schemes and repair the roads first. Always seems odd rebuilding 1/4 mile of pavement to the cost of millions and the road next to it is a sh1t-tip. I hate 20's but I guess around schools its fair enough.

I have been cycling almost daily since 1994. I have to say bikes are part of my family's life now and have introduced us all to some amazing things. I do love my cars but had to walk away from it all due to cost/time/space/etc. I sort of got some fun back in 2005 by buying a pickup as our second car, this trend has continued for two pickups and now a old t5.1 Caravelle.

I have since the 90's run my life in a way I can always cycle to work as an option. I only move jobs to where I always can cycle and I have at least one or two other options. I know everyone cant do this but I look at it as I am not driving, one less car to contend with.

Recently we got rid of my wife's car and leased a Merc EQA. I think we have it sussed now. We have the EV which we use for every trip possible, and my Caravelle for big trips/camping/mountain bike trips/holidays etc. This is working a treat. All vehicles do c4-6k miles per year. My Caravelle is set for 4.5k miles, and all longer trips so the dpf is all good. Obv the very odd occasion we need a second vehicle locally it gets pressed into service. We are right on a ULEZ border but we only go in the very odd time in the Caravelle.

I normally do more miles a year on my bikes than almost both the cars for the two of us. Something has to give, the traffic locally to me is horrendous, driving around here at weekend just sucks the life out of me. If I can cycle, rain or shine it makes me feel good. Not for everyone, but as I said, if I am not on the road you are getting a very slightly quicker journey. Maybe think of this when you next encounter a cyclist, not so sure what I think of 20 plus club riders out clogging the roads, or the odd t0sser jumping red lights etc. Funny though, the worst cyclists seem to be middle aged white men especially around here, whats that about?

 

[Bav]

Sadly roads can be as wide as your imagination allows yet some motorists will still insist on overtaking cyclists close enough that you can’t even raise your arm to bang on their car to wake them up. I tried hard as well, just no room. The gap between their wing mirror and me was nonexistent. And that was on a road with plenty of space and nothing coming the other way.
Everyone that is able ought to be forced to ride a bike on public roads as part of their driving test.

Agreed. but when the road (lane) is single track and you're hauling up a 25% gradient going bugger-all mph with a car up your chuff, then the likelihood of an otherwise careful & respectful driver taking a chance (with your life) is increased exponentially.

Totally agree a pre-requisite for a driving licence should be 6 months in the saddle (with limited exceptions for those for whom that is simply not possible).

 

[Bav]

So true, the level of public transport snobbery in the UK is ridiculous.

Abysmal provision versus "snobbery" - which is cause and which is effect?

 

[Bav]

I read all the "it works for me" posts here (and I'm not aiming this comment at anyone in particular), but there's almost an implicit "...so it can work for everyone." This is a fallacy and should not be an assumption upon which policy is determined.

For all the blanket 20mph/cycling push-back evident in my posts, I have (when possible) cycled to work, in a region (according to reports I've seen) that has some of the most dangerous roads for cyclists in the UK (dangerous in terms of provision, available road-space and local driver attitudes), so I can see/have seen both side of this argument.

 

[FerrisBFW]

I read all the "it works for me" posts here (and I'm not aiming this comment at anyone in particular), but there's almost an implicit "...so it can work for everyone." This is a fallacy and should not be an assumption upon which policy is determined.

For all the blanket 20mph/cycling push-back evident in my posts, I have (when possible) cycled to work, in a region (according to reports I've seen) that has some of the most dangerous roads for cyclists in the UK (dangerous in terms of provision, available road-space and local driver attitudes), so I can see/have seen both side of this argument.

I get it. I guess how do we make the roads nicer for all, I would say impossible with the number of users growing. 20 mph limit is just trying to make it less dangerous I guess?

Reality we need to use our cars less and we need a joined up public transport system thats cheap to use and good. Something big has to change and maybe in our kids lifetime, with the current crop of politicians we have been voting in and the ones we have been voting in for the last 50 years that isnt happening.

So many problems, kids being driven to schools over the other side of town. Buses in private companies hands that keep cancelling services. Expensive train services. No proper public transport system outside of London, even inside its pretty worn out and not very nice. My boys go by train to schools, one I cant buy a season ticket or weekly/monthly pass that actually saves money, so I have to buy five separate tickets every Sunday night, in two bookings cos I cant buy five at a time... but at least I have this option rather than running up my backside off driving them about. Mind you most of the parents at their schools drive their kids in. This should be banned and the schools put on busses! ;-)

 

[Teesix]

I think speed limits should be variable depending upon what time of day/night it is. I totally agree that 20 is plenty when driving near schools. However, schools aren't open at 2 o'clock in the morning so the speed limit should revert back to the National speed limit of 30mph (in built up areas) from say 10pm until around 6 or 7am.

I've just come back from a few days in Cornwall where they also have a lot of 20mph only roads. I had no problem with that but felt a bit silly trundling down an empty road in the early hours that was and would remain deserted until the morning.

 

[Lubrown]

I read all the "it works for me" posts here (and I'm not aiming this comment at anyone in particular), but there's almost an implicit "...so it can work for everyone." This is a fallacy and should not be an assumption upon which policy is determined.

For all the blanket 20mph/cycling push-back evident in my posts, I have (when possible) cycled to work, in a region (according to reports I've seen) that has some of the most dangerous roads for cyclists in the UK (dangerous in terms of provision, available road-space and local driver attitudes), so I can see/have seen both side of this argument.

I’m not in the ‘it works for me so it works for everyone’ category. I don’t mind if people drive, walk, cycle or use an electric buggy. I think though that everyone should have a safe choice.

The 20mph limits do make local streets safer. No denying it. Sure not everyone is going to stick to 20mph (many drivers exercise choice over speed limits whatever they are) but some will. And we all know most of the 20mph areas won’t be Policed so it’s not the money making scheme some would have you think. The benefit of a 20mph is the relative speed reduction - some people that would choose to drive nearer 40mph in a 30mph zone will drive at a slower speed - probably nearer 30mph. The 20mph limits might give the authorities the ability to better hold drivers to account should they mess up and wipe out an innocent party too. It will take time to reduce speeds just as they have crept up over the years. Better start now seeing as though we still get five deaths every day on UK roads.

As for cycle tracks it’s purely about giving those that can use them the choice to do so. Nobody can/will/wants to force anyone that isn’t able to cycle or simply doesn’t want to c tole to use these lanes. But equally just because someone wants to drive instead doesn’t mean they should remove the choice from others - it works both ways.
Interestingly studies show segregated tracks actually reduce journey time for vehicles anyway or, at worst, show there is no difference. There are no studies that show they add to delays, despite the naysayers best efforts to try and convince us that’s the case.
And while ‘Road tax’ doesn’t actually pay for roads taxpayers in general are subsidising the road network whether they use it or not. So they may as well make that network safely useable by all, not just those in powered vehicles. It’s good to have choice.