Loss in BHP T32 204ps 2016 swb Manual [Resolved]

[DaveD]

Oh, thanks for letting us know.

I understand the advice, playing "parts roulette" (replacing parts until you cure the problem), isn't always a great idea, but when you don't have a fault code to help it is sometimes necessary. If the garage can see that you've had several failed dpf regens at least that's a start. I'm not convinced that that's the problem, but hey, they're the experts, hopefully.

On my 6 speed manual I have enough trouble driving at over 2 thousand revs to try to help it regenerate, that's over 70mph in sixth gear, so I sometimes stay in 5th if I know it is regenerating, which goes against all my instinct because I like to use the taller gears to save revving the engine too much. (Surely that's why we've got six gears!) Now you've been told 3 thousand revs for half an hour, I think that would be quite unpleasant!

What they said about the ECU having to relearn is not credible, when you replace a dirty air filter with a clean one it "relearns" with no problem at all and the improvement in performance is immediate! People clean EGR valves and have no such problems!

Hopefully you will get the van back running perfectly, let us know!

 

[Mupp3tt]

Thanks @DaveD , still no word today. It's a pain. Was hoping to hear something.

 

[Mupp3tt]

Dun dun ddddeeeee.

So latest on the van front here is a message from my garage. Any thoughts?

Been going cross eyed looking through logs and need to look at possible problem with charges cooler issues, temperature far too high on hotside of charge cooler, maf readings boost etc all check out OK. I'll give you a shout later to arrange getting it back in sometime

 

[DaveD]

If I got that message from the garage I'd read it as, "We haven't even looked at your van yet, sucker. We haven't identified the problem and you can have it back as it is. Unlucky."

I have been called cynical before, but that message is nonsense.
I mean, how does it take a week to come to that?

 

[Mupp3tt]

Thing is lads and lasses, it is a friend so, so very difficult to question them, old school friend. I've got an appointment with VW can centre on the 16th so I'm hoping something good comes from it. My other mate is a VAG specialist and he I know could do the work but it of the industry. Such a pain in my ....... Total agreement with you @DaveD though. Seems a cop out

 

[Mooncat]

That message from the garage makes sense to me. If the temperature of the charge is high (if it's too high going in, it will still be higher than it should be when it exits the CAC), the air is less dense so the fuelling will be adjusted accordingly and your peak torque figure will be lower.

 

[DXX]

Surely the VW power output fIgure of 204 PS is at the flywheel. 204 PS x 0.986 = 201.14 BHP.
Allowing for a 15% transmission loss; 201.14 x 0.85 = 170.97 BHP on a rolling dyno.
4 BHP less than your van is developing, is there a problem?

 

[DaveD]

i thought that generally in the UK, the figures you get from a dyno aren't whp, but at the fly wheel

Edit: it says reading taken from the crank!

Yea, it must just be an algorithm based on the wheel reading

The OP was told he'd got 175hp at the crank, the garage are saying his HP is down on what it should be. We're assuming that they've back calculated his flywheel Hp from the rolling road figures.

 

[Mupp3tt]

I have been told it is 175bhp at the fly wheel which I can assume is back calculated. Hotter than normal going in the charge cooler, so hotter coming out, MAF and turbos all seem good.
One thing that's come from memory is the vw center once left the oil cap off the engine, I drove it for about a week before I found it sitting on the scuttle plate.... Potential issues from this. It had been in for a service.

 

[DXX]

I have been told it is 175bhp at the fly wheel which I can assume is back calculated. Hotter than normal going in the charge cooler, so hotter coming out, MAF and turbos all seem good.
One thing that's come from memory is the vw center once left the oil cap off the engine, I drove it for about a week before I found it sitting on the scuttle plate.... Potential issues from this. It had been in for a service.

If the oil filler cap was left off oil vapour would have been discharging into the engine compartment at a pretty high rate. You mention that you had a K&N filter installed, I assume this was taking air from within the engine compartment not through the standard external ducting.
In this case the engine was drawing oily air from the engine compartment and putting it through the charge air cooler.
If there’s one thing that destroys an air coolers performance it’s an oil film on the internal surfaces as it reduces heat transfer. However this doesn’t explain why the air is hotter going into the charge air cooler.
Maybe worth checking if the charge air cooler is contaminated with oil on the air side.

 

[The Bear78]

Where are they reading the charge cooler temperature from? If the van is also reading this ie. the ECU is seeing a hot air charge, then I could quite imagine the power being reigned in automatically.
Just a thought....

 

[Fluff34567]

Is it their own mapping or are they agents for pendle etc? I would take it somewhere else for a dynonrun and see what results you get. I have been extremely happy with the service from pendle.. there is a list of tuners on his site.

 

[Mupp3tt]

Morning Gents,
Update again.
So my guy has had the reading on the charge cooler show up as 80 on the hot side and 20 on the cooler side, he has a contact in England somewhere with the same spec van, who has done some diag on his, (HIS IS TUNED TO 230BHP ish)

Ambient Temp 30 Deg C
Hot Side 40 Deg C
cold side 20Deg C

MINE

Ambient Temp 16 Deg C (at hottest, yes this is correct I live near John O Groats)
Hot Side 80 Deg C
Cold Side 20 Deg C

So I'm told the two sensors are the same, so quick shuffle about and the readings are confirmed the same as initial readings, AKA Sensors Good, But pointing to the charge cooler....aw man.

No indecation of carbon build up or blockage can be seen.

Anyone got a charge cooler going spare that I could borrow test and if good buy? ha haha and if it does come to a new part is it worth my time changing it for a better charge cooler. I have no interest in muchogrando power, but i am of the mind of if it costs the same and improves things then why not, even if it costs a little more.....

@The Bear78 The sensors across the charge cooler mate, read from the ECU logs, So I fully expect your on the same thought process. (also swapped these about to make sure the reading s are consistent and they are)

@Fluff34567 I am not sure, I have not asked this. I am a very trusting person, i know sometimes you cant be but I have known my guy for 20+years, his sister is my best mate, so full confidence in him. he has been in and worked around motorsport all his time. I have another mate who is a vw specialist, trust him whole heartedly too, but he has been less forthcomming with help, ( has his own troubles right now). When you live in the arsh end of the UK you have what you have, thats the choochter in me! ha ha ha AS OF YET NOTHING HAS BEEN MAPPED. FIX FIrst.

 

[Loz]

There won't be any carbon build-up in the Charge Coller as it is upstream of the intake manifold and the exhaust gas goes through the EGR cooler and then into the throttle body.

 

[DXX]

Morning Gents,
Update again.
So my guy has had the reading on the charge cooler show up as 80 on the hot side and 20 on the cooler side, he has a contact in England somewhere with the same spec van, who has done some diag on his, (HIS IS TUNED TO 230BHP ish)

Ambient Temp 30 Deg C
Hot Side 40 Deg C
cold side 20Deg C

MINE

Ambient Temp 16 Deg C (at hottest, yes this is correct I live near John O Groats)
Hot Side 80 Deg C
Cold Side 20 Deg C

So I'm told the two sensors are the same, so quick shuffle about and the readings are confirmed the same as initial readings, AKA Sensors Good, But pointing to the charge cooler....aw man.

No indecation of carbon build up or blockage can be seen.

Anyone got a charge cooler going spare that I could borrow test and if good buy? ha haha and if it does come to a new part is it worth my time changing it for a better charge cooler. I have no interest in muchogrando power, but i am of the mind of if it costs the same and improves things then why not, even if it costs a little more.....

@The Bear78 The sensors across the charge cooler mate, read from the ECU logs, So I fully expect your on the same thought process. (also swapped these about to make sure the reading s are consistent and they are)

@Fluff34567 I am not sure, I have not asked this. I am a very trusting person, i know sometimes you cant be but I have known my guy for 20+years, his sister is my best mate, so full confidence in him. he has been in and worked around motorsport all his time. I have another mate who is a vw specialist, trust him whole heartedly too, but he has been less forthcomming with help, ( has his own troubles right now). When you live in the arsh end of the UK you have what you have, thats the choochter in me! ha ha ha AS OF YET NOTHING HAS BEEN MAPPED. FIX FIrst.

If your charge air cooler is dropping the air temperature by 60 degC (80>20) it’s performing better than the van it’s being compared against which is dropping the temperature by 20 degC (40>20).
60 degC drop seems Incredible for a small single pass cooler.
If there really is a true 80 degC air temperature at inlet to the charge air cooler the only way that temperature has increased from ambient is by being pressurised by the turbos. You stated earlier that the boost pressure was correct.
My advice is take your van elsewhere and get a second opinion.

 

[Mupp3tt]

@DXX, thanks and yes 80 Deg seems a lot for the small cooler, I have it boooked in at VW in two weeks, soonest i could get, and a 500 mile trip to take to get it there.

@Loz I agree with you it should not have any carbon in it, well aware of where the air comes and goes too, an odd comment im only realising from your comment.

 

[Insert Coin]

VW would be the last place I'd take it for advice, if it aint warranty work then go to someone who knows what they are doing.

Where are you in the country? There'll be somewhere near you that a member will recommend.

 

[Mupp3tt]

@Insert Coin So here is a post code, i can pretty much gaurentee no one knows someone here... KW1 4XG. look at the UK and put your finger at the most north eastern point, No not Aberdeen, try another 5 hours north!

Nearest dealer is 150 miles away inverness (about 3 hour Drive, Aberdeen glasgow and Edinburgh arround 5.5hrs) these are really the only options of non choochter locations.
My mate is a good guy, i do think he knows what he is doing, he is trying to eliminate things on the hoof , just confirmed that the flow through the charge cooler is good. tracing the heat back to the turbo, which would be toward a pain in the arsh if it is. Anyone know if aftermarket turbos are availible cheaper than VW OEM, ha ha ha, 65,000 miles I should expect turbo to go in old school cars, but thought these would be more robust now. we will wait and see, even if this thread helps someone in the long run...

 

[Insert Coin]

Crikey, might be closer to take it back to the factory

Quick Google - Bavaria Autowerke | The German Car Specialist

Maybe phone them and see if they have the kit to diagnose the issue?

 

[Mupp3tt]

@Insert Coin like i said thay are 12 hour drive away return trip!! ha ha ha