You better make sure they know what they are doing then!
@Insert Coin giv me an old car im fine, new one...... hmmmmmm no computer no go!
Yeah, adblue, dpf, injectors, high pressure fuel pumps etc etc
Don't forget EGR valves - they go wrong too!
@DaveD your aregular comedian mate!
so bypassed the charge cooler today as the thoufht was thus.
build of temp before the charge cooler potentially due to a restriction and build in presure there for temperature.
result still running hot on sensor 1 before charge cooler, result trace it back tooooooo drum roll please.... . TURBOS. Balls
spoke with a few turbo rebuilders and they are not able to help as they are too new...
Anyone want to voice in and tell me something other than the cost of turbos from VW?? actually hit me with that too.... ha haha, that said the boos seems to be good however I do use oil but was told by VW that it was normal. I am hoping that they have that on record though as if they do and there is an issue with the turbos it may be a laime attempt on passing this back to them.
so bypassed the charge cooler today as the thoufht was thus.
build of temp before the charge cooler potentially due to a restriction and build in presure there for temperature.
result still running hot on sensor 1 before charge cooler, result trace it back tooooooo drum roll please.... . TURBOS. Balls
spoke with a few turbo rebuilders and they are not able to help as they are too new...
Anyone want to voice in and tell me something other than the cost of turbos from VW?? actually hit me with that too.... ha haha, that said the boos seems to be good however I do use oil but was told by VW that it was normal. I am hoping that they have that on record though as if they do and there is an issue with the turbos it may be a laime attempt on passing this back to them.
Seems a bit of a general diagnosis ‘it’s the turbos’.
The LP turbo is fixed geometry so not much to fail there, the HP turbo is variable geometry and isn’t in use at full engine speed.
There are valves and associated control systems that should be investigated before pulling turbochargers to pieces. Possibly the control system for the LP Turbo which is providing single stage boost at full power, it has a waste gate with control system, see items 21, 22 & 23 on diagram. This prevents the boost pressure exceeding the max’ specified.
I would consult a VW specialist.
The LP turbo is fixed geometry so not much to fail there, the HP turbo is variable geometry and isn’t in use at full engine speed.
There are valves and associated control systems that should be investigated before pulling turbochargers to pieces. Possibly the control system for the LP Turbo which is providing single stage boost at full power, it has a waste gate with control system, see items 21, 22 & 23 on diagram. This prevents the boost pressure exceeding the max’ specified.
I would consult a VW specialist.
This makes no sense.
As we know, high temperature can be created through an increase in pressure but that isn't possible without either a) a restriction or b) an increase in power.
Being Bi-Turbo it could be the LP wastgate is stuck closed and the resultant (runaway) high pressure is being restricted by the by the HP turbo. That way you could still see high temperature air at the charge cooler but the pressure would not be overly high.
It would be interesting to see the boost pressure at both charge pressure senders. Also, I wonder if the variable guide vanes are operating within normal parameters.
As we know, high temperature can be created through an increase in pressure but that isn't possible without either a) a restriction or b) an increase in power.
Being Bi-Turbo it could be the LP wastgate is stuck closed and the resultant (runaway) high pressure is being restricted by the by the HP turbo. That way you could still see high temperature air at the charge cooler but the pressure would not be overly high.
It would be interesting to see the boost pressure at both charge pressure senders. Also, I wonder if the variable guide vanes are operating within normal parameters.
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@DXX cheers for this fella,
Just my dubious wording saying its the turbos
Garage is still looking at it so I will pass this onto him.
Just my dubious wording saying its the turbos
Garage is still looking at it so I will pass this onto him.
Excellent advise, any idea what values should be seen?
@DXX cheers for this fella,
Just my dubious wording saying its the turbos
Garage is still looking at it so I will pass this onto him.
Excellent advise, any idea what values should be seen?
nope.
But your man knows someone with another to compare with....
OP, I don't believe the 80 degrees temp. The charge cooler will never drop 60 degrees. You'd struggle to heat air at the flow rates through the turbos from ambient to 80 degrees by adiabatic compression alone. A garage compressor probably heats the air to 80 odd degrees, but that's at say 150 PSI!
What's the boost pressure ? I don't see that mentioned ? The engine will cut out I'd guess on overboost, as the ECU would shut it down to prevent damage. I can't see a stuck wastegate causing this. I also don't think the turbos are big enough to generate much more boost than stock. They're not that big.
There are two possibilities for your problem;
1. Duff sensor on charge cooler incoming, telling ECU 80 degrees. When ECU sees 80/20 readings, that is an exception and you're on a odd part of the map.
2. Duff turbos, low boost. I'm sure you've covered boost leak.
I used to do a lot of tuning and turbo work. I used a lot of these £15 charge temperature monitors from the 'Bay. Buy a couple of those and measure the charge yourself, and check the boost pressure.
I have a 204, so if I get a chance later, I'll plug in VCDS and see what temps I see. I might even plug in this gauge and measure it too!
ETA; @The Bear78 has already queried boost.
What's the boost pressure ? I don't see that mentioned ? The engine will cut out I'd guess on overboost, as the ECU would shut it down to prevent damage. I can't see a stuck wastegate causing this. I also don't think the turbos are big enough to generate much more boost than stock. They're not that big.
There are two possibilities for your problem;
1. Duff sensor on charge cooler incoming, telling ECU 80 degrees. When ECU sees 80/20 readings, that is an exception and you're on a odd part of the map.
2. Duff turbos, low boost. I'm sure you've covered boost leak.
I used to do a lot of tuning and turbo work. I used a lot of these £15 charge temperature monitors from the 'Bay. Buy a couple of those and measure the charge yourself, and check the boost pressure.
I have a 204, so if I get a chance later, I'll plug in VCDS and see what temps I see. I might even plug in this gauge and measure it too!
ETA; @The Bear78 has already queried boost.
@catfood12 thanks for this fella,
any alternative readings would be good,
with regard to the charge temperature monitors, sorry but what are these too look at ? (def not a mechanic, but explain and i will get the gyst) (IGNOR THAT, REALISED MY STUPIDITY THERE, pity the dam things all seem to come from china!)
I will try and get the boost readings, they have been compared to another van and check out that way, not to say that van was right either but at least they were getting the correct power outpot at the crank,
with regards to the sensors, from the above scematic they are different before and after the charge cooler, do you know if this is the case?
My mechanic, bypassed the charge cooler to see if the readings were the same and they were the same temp. this was in an attempt to proove the charge cooler isnt restricting flow. he aso said to me he swapped the sensors about as they were the same ( before and after the charge cooler) to see if they were working and gettng the same readings and I assume he meant that they both read 80deg on the hot side of the charge cooler.
any alternative readings would be good,
with regard to the charge temperature monitors, sorry but what are these too look at ? (def not a mechanic, but explain and i will get the gyst) (IGNOR THAT, REALISED MY STUPIDITY THERE, pity the dam things all seem to come from china!)
I will try and get the boost readings, they have been compared to another van and check out that way, not to say that van was right either but at least they were getting the correct power outpot at the crank,
with regards to the sensors, from the above scematic they are different before and after the charge cooler, do you know if this is the case?
My mechanic, bypassed the charge cooler to see if the readings were the same and they were the same temp. this was in an attempt to proove the charge cooler isnt restricting flow. he aso said to me he swapped the sensors about as they were the same ( before and after the charge cooler) to see if they were working and gettng the same readings and I assume he meant that they both read 80deg on the hot side of the charge cooler.
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I don't seem to have a charge cooler inlet temp on VCDS, just turbo no.1 compressor outlet temp and charge air temp. I guess the turbo no.1 compressor outlet temp is the same as charge cooler inlet, just the other side of the throttle body. I didn't get out today, but will try tomorrow..
@catfood12 Yes i believe it is the same sensor only after the throttel body.
just waiting to get the print offs from the mechanic today I hope,
there is definately something hot hapening before the charge cooler, you cannot hold your hand on it so is above 60 deg C.
Max read out he had was shy of 100 dec C
Air flow sensor at max revs numbers are looking good, as was the boost, Any one know what numbers they get for boost to compare?
just waiting to get the print offs from the mechanic today I hope,
there is definately something hot hapening before the charge cooler, you cannot hold your hand on it so is above 60 deg C.
Max read out he had was shy of 100 dec C
Air flow sensor at max revs numbers are looking good, as was the boost, Any one know what numbers they get for boost to compare?
OK so it’s reading absolute pressure, makes sense.
