Renogy lithium battery dead on the road - help needed!!

[Rapt0rUK]

they are referring to the Victron eco system VE.Bus BMS system . . .

which doesn't apply if you plan on using one stand alone or if using a non victron lithium battery . . .



also the smart victron battery protect is a one way device with regards to current flow . . . . so you can one to shut off outgoing power to loads, . . . or shut off incoming charge power . . . . . . but not both . . . . so to shut off outgoing loads, the charger needs to be behind it.


and correct a volt meter is always usfull . . . but with the battery keeping a steady output you need a current shunt monitor to keep track of the SOC of a lithium battery.

Thanks Dell!

So I'd want it to avoid a repeat of last weekend, so to cut off the loads before the battery gets too low. In that setup, I was assuming it sits between my lithium battery +'ve and the loads fusebox... But when you say the charger needs to be behind it...both would be connected to the leisure battery +'ve...

Flow would be from the starter battery to Renogy DC-DC, to leisure battery, then from leisure battery to smart protect to fusebox... Or you mean it needs to sit between the Renogy output and the battery i.e. after the charger?

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Thanks Dell!

So I'd want it to avoid a repeat of last weekend, so to cut off the loads before the battery gets too low. In that setup, I was assuming it sits between my lithium battery +'ve and the loads fusebox... But when you say the charger needs to be behind it...both would be connected to the leisure battery +'ve...

Flow would be from the starter battery to Renogy DC-DC, to leisure battery, then from leisure battery to smart protect to fusebox... Or you mean it needs to sit between the Renogy output and the battery i.e. after the charger?

Just dug out the manual and based on their wiring scenarios for lithium it looks like the Victron BMS device is needed to get a read from a lithium battery...My Renogy battery already has a built in BMS but I'm guessing that has no way to talk to the Smart Protect... Would the Victron shunt be needed in that case so that there is a device in the Victron eco system (app) that has the relevant battery SOC info?

I've already got the Renogy Smart Lithium display on its way...

Not sure whether this smart protect is going to be any use...am I missing something?

 

[Dellmassive]

the victron smart battery protect works stand alone . . . and doesn't need any comms with a battery.

you program it with the battery specs and it monitors power in/out of the battery and will disconect the loads at either a set SOC or a low voltage . . .

65A

Victron Energy Smart Battery Protect 65A 12V 24V Bluetooth Integrated Deep Discharge Protection : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

Victron Energy Smart Battery Protect 65A 12V 24V Bluetooth Integrated Deep Discharge Protection : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

amzn.to

****

100A

Victron Energy BPR110022000 Deep Cycle Batteries & Accessories Smart BatteryProtect 100A 12V 24V : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

Victron Energy BPR110022000 Deep Cycle Batteries & Accessories Smart BatteryProtect 100A 12V 24V : Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

amzn.to

********************

you can download the APP for free and play with the Demo products . . ( APP Connect)

Software - Victron Energy

Software - Victron Energy

www.victronenergy.com

************************


heres the windows version . . .

 

[Dellmassive]

it sits as you say after the battery and before the main loads . . .

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Dellmassive]

charge sources like DC-DC or solar or EHU connect behind it direct to the battery or other . . .


you would need a battery monitor connected lick a victron smart shunt to get the SOC info . . .


but you say you have the Renogy battery BMS monitor coming . . . . so start with that.

that should give you the battery volatge and SOC of the battery.








the volt range is:




so the internal BMS will emergency disconnect at 10V ish . . .

so you programme your battery protect to kick in at say 11v or 11.5v . . .

then the charge source is connected behind the disconnect to enable recharge with no issues . . .

when the voltage rises to the set point . . . . say 13.2v . . . the battery protect will kick back in and start powering your loads again.

 

[Dellmassive]

here we go . . .

you wont need the smart shunt if your happy with the Renogy monitor.

but I've shown it for others that have a non- renogy lithium.

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --

Nice one! A lot of people ask me for this so you now have a nice little side line ;)

www.t6forum.com

.

 

[Rapt0rUK]

charge sources like DC-DC or solar or EHU connect behind it direct to the battery or other . . .


you would need a battery monitor connected lick a victron smart shunt to get the SOC info . . .


but you say you have the Renogy battery BMS monitor coming . . . . so start with that.

that should give you the battery volatge and SOC of the battery.


View attachment 82908

View attachment 82910

View attachment 82911

the volt range is:

View attachment 82912


so the internal BMS will emergency disconnect at 10V ish . . .

so you programme your battery protect to kick in at say 11v or 11.5v . . .

then the charge source is connected behind the disconnect to enable recharge with no issues . . .

when the voltage rises to the set point . . . . say 13.2v . . . the battery protect will kick back in and start powering your loads again.

Ahh ok i get it...

I think what was throwing me, my understanding of lithium was that voltage as a measure is less relevant because it holds relatively stable until the death (and therefore not a good measure of SOC). So my assumption, by the time it drops to 11/11.5v its in the final moments before it falls over and may be too late. If i'm understanding you correctly, whilst voltage doesn't degrade over the period of discharge in the same way AGM etc would (making it a good measure of SOC) it does still degrade toward the final stages of being depleted and therefore you can catch it in time?

So i'll still use the Renogy smart monitor screen for SOC and keep a close eye on that but as a fail safe, set the smart battery protect as you suggest to 11.5v. Once the display arrives and i've got visibility of the SOC, it will be interesting to see at what point in the SOC the voltage actually drops off that low (assuming i'm understanding the mechanics of it correctly!).

Dell, got to say, really appreciate the time and effort you put in to responding to these posts... you've helped me no end over the past few months and i'm sure countless others that might follow the same setup... if our paths cross at a meet, i owe you a good few beers!!

 

[Dellmassive]

im glad the posts help . .

+1 for the beers . . . . . . =]

see here where i do a capcity test on one of my Valence Lifpo4 batteries . . .

and use a Smart Battery protect to shut off the loads . . .

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Here we go, I've just completed testing on a Victron setup for LTD. and @Deaky will be happy as its much less "Heath Robinson" solution. so we have a Victron BMV712 smart battery monitor (monitor power/volt/amp levels in/out of battery) BMV-712 Smart - Victron Energy Victron Temperature...

www.t6forum.com

.



i start with a 100% SOC lithium . .

then draw 50A or so via a inverter . . .




4hrs later . . .




i has the LBP set for 11.1v . . .





5- by 6.52pm we had drawn 137.AH and 1730WH (4:10hrs runtime)

hold on WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT !!!!


50A draw (cycling)
137ah
1730wh
for 4.10 hours



thats astounding , , , , drawing 50A for hours and hours !!!

and the second hand battery !!! well

137ah/138ah * 100 = 99.27%

so not only is the battery still working as NEW but its also proved that it can deliver its 99% discharge capacity to the 11.2v cutoff point.

im sure if i was drawing less that the 50A load i could easily exceed the 138Ah capacity.




*************



i dosne the same test with the second battery . . .

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Here we go, I've just completed testing on a Victron setup for LTD. and @Deaky will be happy as its much less "Heath Robinson" solution. so we have a Victron BMV712 smart battery monitor (monitor power/volt/amp levels in/out of battery) BMV-712 Smart - Victron Energy Victron Temperature...

www.t6forum.com

and this time had a BM2 monitor connected . . .

you can see that drawing 50A there is a slight drop in voltage . . . .

enough to be detected by a LBP . . . .




..

 

[Rapt0rUK]

im glad the posts help . .

+1 for the beers . . . . . . =]

see here where i do a capcity test on one of my Valence Lifpo4 batteries . . .

and use a Smart Battery protect to shut off the loads . . .

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Here we go, I've just completed testing on a Victron setup for LTD. and @Deaky will be happy as its much less "Heath Robinson" solution. so we have a Victron BMV712 smart battery monitor (monitor power/volt/amp levels in/out of battery) BMV-712 Smart - Victron Energy Victron Temperature...

www.t6forum.com

.



i start with a 100% SOC lithium . .

then draw 50A or so via a inverter . . .


View attachment 82917

4hrs later . . .

View attachment 82918


i has the LBP set for 11.1v . . .


View attachment 82919


5- by 6.52pm we had drawn 137.AH and 1730WH (4:10hrs runtime)

hold on WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT !!!!


50A draw (cycling)
137ah
1730wh
for 4.10 hours



thats astounding , , , , drawing 50A for hours and hours !!!

and the second hand battery !!! well

137ah/138ah * 100 = 99.27%

so not only is the battery still working as NEW but its also proved that it can deliver its 99% discharge capacity to the 11.2v cutoff point.

im sure if i was drawing less that the 50A load i could easily exceed the 138Ah capacity.




*************



i dosne the same test with the second battery . . .

Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Here we go, I've just completed testing on a Victron setup for LTD. and @Deaky will be happy as its much less "Heath Robinson" solution. so we have a Victron BMV712 smart battery monitor (monitor power/volt/amp levels in/out of battery) BMV-712 Smart - Victron Energy Victron Temperature...

www.t6forum.com

and this time had a BM2 monitor connected . . .

you can see that drawing 50A there is a slight drop in voltage . . . .

enough to be detected by a LBP . . . .

View attachment 82920


..

Makes perfect sense now, thanks again, once it all arrives i'll add to my electrics build page and do some testing!

 

[Rapt0rUK]

View attachment 82903


View attachment 82904

Hey @Dellmassive, busy weekend, Smart Battery Protect and Battery Charger both arrived so took the opportunity to overhaul some of the wiring (wasn't happy with the crimp terminals from Amazon, replaced with better quality from 12v Planet) and improved the layout a bit...will update my electrics build thread soon.

Smart Battery Protect is in and working (although haven't been able to test cut-off yet) had a quick question about it though that i can't find an answer to in their documentation....

What mode did you run it in for your li-ion battery box build? There is an inbuilt Li-ion mode but i'm presuming this is only for use when you couple with one of their batteries or their BMS interface??

Reason being, when you set either the 'Mode' or 'Operation' to Li-ion, it defaults to one of their presets with a cut-off of 10.50v (and no ability to change it) which is lower than i'd like to push it.

Presumably it's fine to run in 'Normal' mode and I can just pick 'Preset 6' (11.5v cut-off)?

 

[Dellmassive]

I ve got mine set as user defined.

And set my own cut off as I see fit.

.

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Thanks for confirming, thought so, have done the same as you and set for 11.5v...

Looks like the Renogy displays are delayed so will have to wait a bit longer to do some testing...website now says mid September...

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Thanks for confirming, thought so, have done the same as you and set for 11.5v...

Looks like the Renogy displays are delayed so will have to wait a bit longer to do some testing...website now says mid September...

Status on the Renogy order just updated to awaiting shipping so looks like they are finally in the UK! Hopefully arriving soon!

 

[Andymc]

Just in time I would say!!

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Hello!

 

[Andymc]

Mine arrived this morning also, not home till Monday so I have to wait before I can plug it in..

 

[Rapt0rUK]

Pretty nifty, managed to get it installed this morning.

Battery capacity shows 100ah (which is a good sign with it being brand new!)


Switched the lights on and you get the draw in Amps.



State of charge.



I then put it on charge with the Victron 12/15 and it shows a positive number for Amps rather than negative to show what's going into the battery.


You can also see the positive voltage



Also checked that in the Victron charger app and both matched up bar 0.1v.

Only issue is, not much clearance under the seat for the cable so have to be very careful when putting the drivers seat forward and back...



So far so good though, pretty impressed with it, does exactly what i need it to and was the final part of the electrics puzzle until we can afford a fridge!

 

[Andymc]

Nice one.
I put my battery on some 9mm ply but it was sitting too high so swapped to Alu angle. Much better, hopefully with the monitor cable it’s ok.

 

[flo.flowers]

Will the battery go on its side?

 

[Broadside]

you program it with the battery specs and it monitors power in/out of the battery and will disconect the loads at either a set SOC or a low voltage

@Dellmassive I’m putting a Victron Smart Batteryprotect to disconnect loads from my starter battery (no leisure battery in mine), what is the usual cutoff min voltage to use? I’ve always manually disconnected stuff around 12.1v but can I safely go a bit lower?