Stop/start...regen...smart Alternator... Dc-dc Charger For Leisure Battery Or Not?

Looks like i might be getting somewhere with all this split-charging and DC-DC charging issue.

As we see from my results above, something just wasn't adding up.

MMi`s results were showing both batteries were balanced and showed a good SOC . . . . . . so why wasnt mine? and why was mine so far out of whack?

Well the next thing to do was swap out the leisure battery for another one and do all the tests again.

The swapped battery was a Bosch one from my old T5.1 (a known good), its a standard wet-cell, not a EFB+ like the one i took out. (didnt matter as the REDARC was back in now and would charge the battery normally)


This is the MOLL EFB+ after weeks of driving around and after being charged. it should be 100% full, but its showing 66% SOC and 77% SOH and 12.4V

20180810_182036.jpg


this is the replacement spare im going to use.,,,, its been in the garage for 3months so not in the best condition....

it shows 40% SOC, 73% SOH and 12.24v before being fitted in the van.

20180810_182630.jpg


Now the van has been sitting all weekend, but after todays work, about 4hrs driving around with a rest in the middle look at what the new swapped out battery is showing . . . .

98% SOC 74SOH and 12.58V . . . . . . . Its charged up fine and held the voltage.!


20180813_181039.jpg


Now look at this ---->

The MOLL EFB+ that was removed on friday had been put in the garage and put on a NOCO charger for 2day............ 2 DAYS!!!!

so it should be full right ?

Well look at this, after 1 day just sitting there doing nothing..........................

20180813_181525.jpg



48% SOC, 100% SOH and a voltage of 12.28V !!!!!!!!!!!!


So basically no matter what you do with this battery, as soon as you take it off charge the SOC drops to bellow 50% and the voltage drops to 12.2v or bellow . . . . . .what the hell!!!!!

Its a MY18 Van. . . . . . . ! with new batteries!

So it looks like the MOLL EFB+ battery is the reason why all my test results are so far out. . . . . this battery takes a charge but then just plummets in SOC and voltage as soon as the charger is removed.

Now the good-old Bosch battery is in the van it seems like all the levels are as they should be.


Ill update this when i get the CTEK readouts after a few days . . . .

just for now have a look at the BM2 readout from today . . . . . . it shows the Poor discharged Bosch this morning at 12.2V, then after 2hrs driving its showing a healthy 12.58v and holding all day, Then after the drive home a very nice 12.7v.

Screenshot_20180813-204308_Battery Monitor.jpg


Conclusion so far? - Brand new MOLL EFB+ leisure battery is knackered and refuses to hold a charge above 12.2v

MMI - i think this is the reason my reading show my battery's so far out of balance as the CTEK monitors only show the battery SOC and ignore the alternator or any other charging status (it just waits for the battery rest voltage)... so the CTEK was just reporting the actual rest voltage of the battery which was 12.2v or below, which would equate to 20% or less SOC. That why my readings always showed such a low SOC.

Ill update the CTEK reports after a few day.

Ill leave the MOLL EFB+ disconnected and see if it continues to lose SOC over the next few days.

Ill look at replacing the Bosch for a new AGM 75aH (then add a second one on the other side of the bench)
 
That’s a warranty job surely ?

Yep defo.

But I'll keep hold of it for now and continue testing unroll I'm happy.

Then I'll back it under a warranty claim.
 
VW guidelines about aux battery retrofitting in document "Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles – Body builder guidelines, July 2018 edition, The Transporter – Page 89."
Somewhat curious how the EFB ended up into your van.

View attachment 27001

The full document at Body builder guidelines: Transporter - BodybuilderDatabase


HMM,, takes me back to my original posting when i checked the Van over at handover from day one.

I questioned the EFB+ battery and was told by the Tech that this was perfectly normal.....?


anyone else with a factory fit second battery under the passenger bench want to share there battery types?

we had on our MY18 : Varta AGM starter and a MOLL EFB+ for the Aux....
 
This was discussed in an earlier thread, at some in the last year, VW started fitting EFB rather than AGM as leisure batteries (basically just penny-pinching).
 
anyone else with a factory fit second battery under the passenger bench want to share there battery types?

we had on our MY18 : Varta AGM starter and a MOLL EFB+ for the Aux....
Mine was built on 14th of March 2018. As already mentioned both main and aux batteries are from factory same Varta AGM type. The main battery 92Ah 7P0 915 105 C, and the aux 75 Ah 7P0 915 105 A.
 
Heres todays readouts:

CTEK showing Green now on boths batts . . . .

Screenshot_20180814-203029_Battery Sense.jpg


BM2 showing Bosch AUX battery improving after todays run around . . . . . . .

Screenshot_20180814-203054_Battery Monitor.jpg

and BM2 Graph for today also shows a steady improvement . . . . (about 5hrs driving with stops)

Screenshot_20180814-203102_Battery Monitor.jpg
 
Most of the vans produced now seem to be coming with EFB instead of AGM. I think one of the major issues has been missed in all this monitoring. Yes, the aux battery will charge via a relay but rarely to 100%. Keeping a battery at these low levels of charge seriously impedes performance and life span.
 
That reminds me, must get one of those Launch battery meters..

Hey @Loz I've just got myself a newer model (not sure if you can get the launch one anymore)

anyway it has all the Lunch functions plus more, and you can specify EFB+ + AGM etc etc etc and its less than half the price i paid for the Launch one.

anyway, had this now one for a week now . . . . . and basically its the same thing with newer firmware, and a bit smaller size and has more functions.

BST-200 take a look >>

63.jpg

64.jpg



62.JPG


there are a few different models, so make sure you get the fully loaded version,

12V Auto Car Battery Tester Digital Vehicle Starting Cranking Analyzer 1100CCA 712755962334 | eBay
 
The story continues . . . . .

after a long while i finally got to the deallers to sort out this MOLL battery.

Van Booked in, connected to VW diag - no faults obviously.

Showed the Tech all my data and he agreed there must be a fault with the battery so authorized a new replacement. . . .

3 days later . . . . back to the dealers - wrong battery had been ordered!, they ordered the AGM 110Ah starter battery. . . . . but they wouldnt let me keep it =[

So a WEEK LATER BACK AGAIN - this time correct 70ah battery . . . . . but look at this No MOLL !!! its a VARTA!

20181008_131920.jpg

an quick test and she was in . . .


20181008_152452.jpg

.
20181008_152512.jpg

.


20181008_153547.jpg


So have VW ditched MOL then?

Seems that way with this battery at least . . . . . . . . So testing will now continue with this new VARTA battery.

Shame its not an AGM but the tech said they would only authorize a like-for-like battery . . . so if it had a EFB+, its getting another EFB+ =[

lets see if we have an improvement in charge capacity.

Remeber we have the REDARC now in-place of the factory relay.

.
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Out of curiosity i just looked up the battery and VW retail them for £185 !!
 
today's readout looks promising . . . . .

Screenshot_20181009-081624_Battery Sense.jpg
 
today's readout looks promising . . . . .

View attachment 30070
If/when you get a period of lower temperatures hook up your instruments and check the readings again. Interested to hear if they are any different.

Up here the temperature has been below freezing point for some time and the van seems to be to keeping battery charge topped up by keeping the voltage at 14.8V and just occasionally (every 10 mins or so) dropping it for a minute down to 13.8V.
 
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Probably because you are using more power with things like heater blower, wipers, lights etc
Thanks. Yes, that's also my thought and would be the obvious explanation. Anyways the heater blower is still at speed "1", the lights are the same as in October - headlights on full time. Not using mirror heaters and definitely not wipers in this weather o_O A kind of unknown to me still is the AdBlue heater(s). Certainly the aux coolant heater has a role as it is used also as cabin preheater before setting off, so definitely takes some time to put that energy back to the battery. Still interestingly the mentioned "behaviour" stays on for hours of driving. Also the van's battery management reports now higher battery charge levels than in summer. So at first glance it looks like the battery management might have some temperature compensation measures - which would be a good thing.

Anyways, as you mention there are quite a few new factors in the play including even battery's lessened capability to absorb charge in colder temperatures. As the van's battery management reports quite a bunch live parameters that probably might shed some light where all the energy from the alternator goes and how the currents are from/to the battery. So hopefully over the winter I can extract some more information although that probably won't change anything after all.
 
If/when you get a period of lower temperatures hook up your instruments and check the readings again. Interested to hear if they are any different.

Up here the temperature has been below freezing point for some time and the van seems to be to keeping battery charge topped up by keeping the voltage at 14.8V and just occasionally (every 10 mins or so) dropping it for a minute down to 13.5V.
Will Do, we tend to have the coldest weather at the end of january and Through feburary...its still very mild atm in London UK.
 
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