Too Many OBDii Faults For My Liking!

[Pete C]

I'm not convinced that your test on point 1 will be conclusive. If you get the varying voltage (14v or higher on overrun, 13v on power etc), then you definitely have a smart alternator - good news.
If you get 14v continuously, then it could be that a poorly battery is causing the smart alternator to try and top it up continuously, or you may have a non-smart alternator.

Perhaps you could see if the alternator has a part/model number on it, and look it up online to see if it is "smart".

Pete

 

[Grim Reaper]

So, comparing your OBD data

VAG Number: 7H0907534
System Designation: Batt.regelung
Software Coding: 030B7A73
Software Version: 0725
WSC: 02737
IMP: 00790
Geraet: 0000000
Hardware Part Number: 7H0937090
Hardware Version: H75
ECU Protocol: KWP2000CAN20

to my VCDS data

Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840) Labels:. 1K0-907-534.clb
Part No SW: 7E0 907 534 HW: 7E0 937 090
Component: Batt.regelung H81 0744
Serial number: 0982 067170338
Coding: 030B1A73
Shop #: WSC 35110 377 08192
VCID: 6889BABB927F0AE7617-803C

Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 7E0 915 181 K HW: 7E0 915 181 K
Component: J367-BDMConti H03 1050
Serial number: 758857000017031003E4

The Hardware part numbers are very similar, just an E on mine where yours is a H.
I think they are the same thing.
Just need to work out what the difference in the coding between Software Coding: 030B7A73 and 030B1A73.

Anyone?

 

[mmi]

the difference in the coding between Software Coding: 030B7A73 and 030B1A73

030B_1A_73 = AGM battery
030B_7A_73 = EFB
030B_0A_73 = Regular "wet" battery

 

[BrianK]

OK everyone, I connected to the multimeter via long wires directly to the battery and the only difference I got compared to my last test was slightly less volts, 13.98 to 14.04 this time, which I put down to the wires being about 4 metres long rolled up on the passenger seat as I didn’t want to cut them.

Perhaps you could see if the alternator has a part/model number on it, and look it up online to see if it is "smart".
Pete

The best photo I could get of the alternator is attached, unfortunately my phone failed on me just after this, a known problem I have with the software meaning I won’t have the phone again until tomorrow.

Searching online I came across this one > Alternator VALEO 439791 14V, 140A, with integrated regulator but I can’t for the life off me work out if this means it’s ’smart’ or not.

So, comparing your OBD data
The Hardware part numbers are very similar, just an E on mine where yours is a H.
I think they are the same thing.
Just need to work out what the difference in the coding between Software Coding: 030B7A73 and 030B1A73.
Anyone?

030B_1A_73 = AGM battery
030B_7A_73 = EFB
030B_0A_73 = Regular "wet" battery

Would it be fair to say it seems the last owner changed from the original EFB battery to the current lead acid but didn’t recode it?

I will look at the Autel OBD further when my phones back online.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I'd say that's a fair assumption.
So if it had an EFB battery originally, it will be a smart alternator as VW wouldn't have fitted the more expensive EFB if they didn't have to.

 

[BrianK]

Thanks Grim Reaper

But in that case how come the voltage in my test stayed so constant? Or do you agree with Pete C's possible conclusion?

 

[Grim Reaper]

Does the Stop/Start kick in at any point?
Is the leisure battery still connected via the split charge relay? If it is it may be the average of the two batteries connected in parallel you are seeing. While the split charge relay is energised you have both batteries connected to the alternator.
The traces that Dellmassive had on the other thread were taken over three hour period, I think you’d need a similar datalogger or oscilloscope trace to confirm with a better resolution than a digital multimeter.

 

[Grim Reaper]

030B_1A_73 = AGM battery
030B_7A_73 = EFB
030B_0A_73 = Regular "wet" battery

Is that from byte 2 above? So the 1A is from 10 Battery type Absorbed Glass Mat combined with 0A Battery Position Engine compartment? I can never understand bits, bytes and hexadecimal and the way they combine the two in vcds.

 

[mmi]

View attachment 55120

Is that from byte 2 above? So the 1A is from 10 Battery type Absorbed Glass Mat combined with 0A Battery Position Engine compartment? I can never understand bits, bytes and hexadecimal and the way they combine the two in vcds.

Yes, correct.

The combining is actually just a simple addition. But yes, the numbering of bytes and bits bits can certainly be confusing: bytes are numbered from left to right starting at "0", and then bits from right to left starting at "0"

Hope this clarifies:

 

[BrianK]

Does the Stop/Start kick in at any point?
Is the leisure battery still connected via the split charge relay? If it is it may be the average of the two batteries connected in parallel you are seeing. While the split charge relay is energised you have both batteries connected to the alternator.
The traces that Dellmassive had on the other thread were taken over three hour period, I think you’d need a similar datalogger or oscilloscope trace to confirm with a better resolution than a digital multimeter.

Good question. The answer in no, partly because I probably didn't drive anywhere that gave it the chance and partly because I have probably conditioned myself to drive slightly differently since having the van as I don't particularly like start/stop. So you think this could help in some way?

The relay is still connected, I was even wondering if it would be worth my while disconnecting it all together and trying testing again. since having the van I had always thought that plugging into EHU had charged the starter battery as well as the leisure one, but someone on another forum suggested as terminal B1 doesn't seem to have been used in my CBE DS300 distribution unit then this is impossible.

I'd prefer not to have to stump up for further diagnostic stuff as it isn't something I'l probably make much use of in the future. My other problems is that I don't and can't use the van to and from work so all of my testing is specifically for testing purposes

The best photo I could get of the alternator is attached, unfortunately my phone failed on me just after this, a known problem I have with the software meaning I won’t have the phone again until tomorrow.
View attachment 55106
Searching online I came across this one > Alternator VALEO 439791 14V, 140A, with integrated regulator but I can’t for the life off me work out if this means it’s ’smart’ or not.

Hopefully someone on here will be able to help with whether I do definitely have a smart alternator or not for sure.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Have you cleared the fault codes and had any return again?
The P068A00 could be caused by a weak battery.

 

[BrianK]

Yes managed that yesterday and just scanned again and the only one back is on Engine control module 1, output pasted below:

 

[BrianK]

Additional I found the below. Is this what I was wanting so far as the battery recoding is concerned?

 

[mmi]

Additional I found the below. Is this what I was wanting so far as the battery recoding is concerned?

View attachment 55154

View attachment 55158

View attachment 55160

Interestingly live data is shown only partially - only the first page (almost) - perhaps you hit some kind of limitation. Anyways, the battery is coded as 70Ah so it's close enough. Chargingwise EFB and regular lead acid are identical - also the measured voltages suggest the same.

Do you think there is a way to tweak Autel to show less but just a few selected ones. Interested to see 19-3 Battery Aging (Power), 19-4 Battery Aging (Charge), 20-1 Internal Resistance, 20-2 Internal Resistance, normalized.

Re your measurements - what was outdoor temperature as the charging regime turns to more aggressive as it gets colder. It seems that below approx. +5C the voltage seems to stay at the maximum thus nothing smart anymore then. No trailer? No seat heating? No DPF regenning?

Also mentioned 2 x 45 min runs were not necessarily long enough yet to ease off charging if the battery was not well charged. If you really want to experiment my suggestion is to charge starter battery using external/additional charger. And take the van for a 10 minute ride to see what the voltages (at the cig lighter socket) then are (and temperature well above +5C).

 

[BrianK]

Thanks mmi

I'm assuming I should only be using the unit with key on and engine off as I have all along?

I will look at the setting further.

Temperature has been in excess of 5 deg C, in fact mostly about 7 or 8. No trailer, no seat heating, no air con. head lights on.

 

[Grim Reaper]

I'm guessing those other fields would populate if the engine was running?
I've just read on another forum "Normally the alternator is switched off about 8-11 minutes after engine start unless there are heavy consumers, such as AC switched on."
On @Delmassive trace the alternator output voltage stays quite low for quite a while after engine start, then goes up high about 7-8 minutes later so this might not be quite right, maybe it only turns the alternator ON after 8 minutes, unless there is a demand such as Aircon?
The trace does seem to confirm the generally accepted operating characteristics that the battery is kept at 80% capacity for the most part, running the engine off the battery reserve until it gets too low for it's liking at which point it boosts it up, but the trace seems to boost the voltage AFTER a stop start event, not before??

 

[BrianK]

Have you cleared the fault codes and had any return again?
The P068A00 could be caused by a weak battery.

I took another test drive this afternoon and drove about 15 miles or so with the voltage registering almost exactly 14.10 volts the whole time. After all this time the start/stop eventually started to work, when it kicked in the voltage dropped to 12.35 (guess battery had been a little flat) and then when I dipped the clutch it went straight back up to 13.95 straight away.

I did also pull the fuse from the split charge relay before leaving but don’t feel this made any difference.

I’m not sure if this helps at all but I guess it seems to be the good news if there is any, as when I returned I ran the scanner again and got the following!!

 

[Grim Reaper]

If your van has Start/Stop, and has the shunt on the battery negative terminal (and has a small wire attached to said shunt) then I'd be quite confident in saying your van is fitted with a smart alternator, it's not so much that the alternator itself is any different, it's the way that the ECU controls the way it interacts with the battery.
Your fault codes are another matter, a few glowplug codes, the data bus codes and the battery regulator codes are concerning, I think the best course of action would be to replace the battery with a good AGM one, get it recoded correctly and then reset the fault codes and see what comes back.

 

[BrianK]

Thanks Grim Reaper for the continued support.

I agree it's probably time to try and move this on and invest a bit more than my time in the van

However I don't have a particularly good history with AGM batteries and would therefore ask if you can see any reason not to use a 100ah EFB?

 

[Grim Reaper]

Same price for an EFB as an AGM, but having had an EFB die on me I went for AGM for mine.
You can get a 4 year guaranteed one for around £130, 5 year guarantee for a bit more.
Look out for voucher codes for tayna batteries on ebay.