Too Many OBDii Faults For My Liking!

[BrianK]

I know it probably looks overkill to you but I was looking at the one below. On the subject of AGM also I keep reading about how many car manufacturers are going away from them.
L36-EFB Yuasa Leisure Battery 12V 100Ah

Are these codes in Taynas own Ebay?

 

[Grim Reaper]

That Yuasa is marketed as a leisure battery, I wouldn’t use that as a starter battery even if it has 850 CCA rating.
I would say either this one 019 EFB Enduroline Start Stop Car Battery 100Ah if you favour EFB
or this one 019 Enduroline AGM Start Stop Car Battery 95Ah for AGM with 4 year guarantees,
I personally fitted one of these S5 A13 Bosch AGM Car Battery 12V 95Ah Type 019 S5A13 earlier this year but I got it for £144 off their ebay site with a voucher code back in July, it has a 5 year warranty.
The Bosch batteries are made in Varta’s plant but have a 5 year guarantee over Varta’s own 4 year guarantee.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Black Friday/Cyber Monday (who thinks these things up?) are getting near, you may find some good deals on them then.
Found a code to try.. SMED33

 

[mmi]

I'm assuming I should only be using the unit with key on and engine off as I have all along?

Ignition on is enough.

I’m not sure if this helps at all but I guess it seems to be the good news if there is any, as when I returned I ran the scanner again and got the following!!
View attachment 55170

Re the faults - have you checked cable connections at battery +. One of those goes directly to starter, the other feeds the rest of the van (via fuse box under the battery). The faults suggest low voltage at glow plugs and fuel pumps - actually full description of glow plug faults claims "...short to ground". The glow plugs pull about 100 Amps, which won't tolerate any poor joints.

I'm guessing those other fields would populate if the engine was running?

They all are available just ignition on, however on these legacy (as on T6) modules only three groups (each of 4 values) can be accessed at once. The VCDS does some clever trickery to bypass the "limitation". The battery state parameters I was curious about were in groups 19 and 20.

 

[BrianK]

That Yuasa is marketed as a leisure battery, I wouldn’t use that as a starter battery even if it has 850 CCA rating.
I would say either this one 019 EFB Enduroline Start Stop Car Battery 100Ah if you favour EFB
or this one 019 Enduroline AGM Start Stop Car Battery 95Ah for AGM with 4 year guarantees,
I personally fitted one of these S5 A13 Bosch AGM Car Battery 12V 95Ah Type 019 S5A13 earlier this year but I got it for £144 off their ebay site with a voucher code back in July, it has a 5 year warranty.
The Bosch batteries are made in Varta’s plant but have a 5 year guarantee over Varta’s own 4 year guarantee.

I get your point. Would the choice of starter battery have any bearing on the choice of two leisure batteries in your opinion?

 

[BrianK]

Ignition on is enough.

Re the faults - have you checked cable connections at battery +. One of those goes directly to starter, the other feeds the rest of the van (via fuse box under the battery). The faults suggest low voltage at glow plugs and fuel pumps - actually full description of glow plug faults claims "...short to ground". The glow plugs pull about 100 Amps, which won't tolerate any poor joints.

They all are available just ignition on, however on these legacy (as on T6) modules only three groups (each of 4 values) can be accessed at once. The VCDS does some clever trickery to bypass the "limitation". The battery state parameters I was curious about were in groups 19 and 20.

I can only seem to quote this part of your post!

So starting the engine will not help? `is it worth trying or could it cause harm?

There is a live feed being taken from this fuse box (piggy backed off a fuse I believe) that ran some daylight running lights the previous owner had but no longer work. I had been meaning to remove the module which doesn’t look in particularly good nic but haven’t got around to it yet. I will do so and report back.

Perhaps I’ll send this to Autel and see if I’m doing something wrong

 

[Grim Reaper]

If you are getting a DC-DC charger to charge the leisure batteries, then no, not at all. They will all have an offering of selectable charging profiles to suit whatever leisure batteries you have/are going to get.
The Victron Orion Smart, CTEK D250SA or Ablemail ABMC 12-12-30/60 are just DC-DC chargers, while the Redarc BCDC1240D and Ablemail AMS 12-12-30 have Solar inputs so you don't need an additional Solar Charge Controller if you decide to add solar panels.

 

[mmi]

So starting the engine will not help? `is it worth trying or could it cause harm?

Starting the engine won't cause any harm. Perhaps worth trying to see if that makes any difference - theoretically during a lengthy diagnostic session voltage could drop too low without engine running.

 

[BrianK]

Re the faults - have you checked cable connections at battery +. One of those goes directly to starter, the other feeds the rest of the van (via fuse box under the battery). The faults suggest low voltage at glow plugs and fuel pumps - actually full description of glow plug faults claims "...short to ground". The glow plugs pull about 100 Amps, which won't tolerate any poor joints.

There is a live feed being taken from this fuse box (piggy backed off a fuse I believe) that ran some daylight running lights the previous owner had but no longer work. I had been meaning to remove the module which doesn’t look in particularly good nic but haven’t got around to it yet. I will do so and report back.

I sorted the wiring out and after clearing faults and starting the van I'm now only getting the attached.

More goods news in a moment!

 

[BrianK]

I'm guessing those other fields would populate if the engine was running?

Ignition on is enough.
They all are available just ignition on, however on these legacy (as on T6) modules only three groups (each of 4 values) can be accessed at once. The VCDS does some clever trickery to bypass the "limitation". The battery state parameters I was curious about were in groups 19 and 20.

After dealing with the wiring and clearing the faults I tried the battery scan again ‘with engine running’ and here are the results!
And they include numbers 19 and 20
EDIT 8.50pm: I assume if I drove during the test numbers 50 to 53 would probably be populated too?

 

[Grim Reaper]

Your charge current seems quite high (20.2A) for a 75Ah lead acid battery, recommended rate is 0.2C so it should be 15A max. Have you had the battery tested? it may have a faulty cell.

 

[BrianK]

And lastly, as if that isn't enough good news for one day, I believe I have also found the area of my OBD software where the battery recoding is carried out.

The only thing I found a little confusing is that there are only about 5 or 6 options of battery make, or do you think it might automatically find the new battery if it was changed?

 

[Grim Reaper]

No, it's a manual entry only.
See my post #9 on page 1
The Moll EFB batteries are the one's that have been giving so many failures.
There are 2 places that data needs to be changed when re-coding a battery, the type of battery is part of the coding seen earlier.
Software Coding: 030B7A73
The 7 is for EFB, It would be a 1 if it was AGM, or a 0 for Wet cell.
I don't know if you changed the coding to a wet cell, 75Ah (Halfords batteries are made by Yuasa, but there's no code for them so who knows what you'd put there) if the van would alter its charging profile to suit, maybe even turning off the start stop charging regime??

 

[mmi]

After dealing with the wiring and clearing the faults I tried the battery scan again ‘with engine running’ and here are the results!
And they include numbers 19 and 20
EDIT 8.50pm: I assume if I drove during the test numbers 50 to 53 would probably be populated too?

View attachment 55247

View attachment 55248

View attachment 55249

Excellent! Actually the values I was interested - 19-3 Battery Aging (Power), 19-4 Battery Aging (Charge), 20-1 Internal Resistance, 20-2 Internal Resistance, normalized - seem to be typical values after a few months after battery change+adaptation. I have suspected that the battery management actually adapts in a few weeks to actual values even without proper adaptation as there is no long term history memory in these legacy battery management modules.

If the battery adaptation works with your tool, the aging parameters (above) would set to 100%, and in a few weeks they would creep back to around these values.

Thanks for posting these - in next few weeks I'll get access to a similar van (with exactly the same battery management as yours) which got a new battery three months ago and was coded "properly" so now I'm curious to compare with that. The above values of that van before battery change were clearly indicating worn out battery (as expected for a 7 year old battery).

 

[BrianK]

Your charge current seems quite high (20.2A) for a 75Ah lead acid battery, recommended rate is 0.2C so it should be 15A max. Have you had the battery tested? it may have a faulty cell.

I haven't had it tested but as it seems there is no doubt it isn't the battery for the job I guess it probably isn't worth it.

 

[BrianK]

No, it's a manual entry only.
See my post #9 on page 1
The Moll EFB batteries are the one's that have been giving so many failures.
There are 2 places that data needs to be changed when re-coding a battery, the type of battery is part of the coding seen earlier.
Software Coding: 030B7A73
The 7 is for EFB, It would be a 1 if it was AGM, or a 0 for Wet cell.
I don't know if you changed the coding to a wet cell, 75Ah (Halfords batteries are made by Yuasa, but there's no code for them so who knows what you'd put there) if the van would alter its charging profile to suit, maybe even turning off the start stop charging regime??

Yes of course I forgot that.

I'm going to get a battery sorted and then see where I can get to.

Anyone got an opinion. on the one fault I still have? Are we assuming this would be solved by the correct battery and coding?

 

[BrianK]

Excellent! Actually the values I was interested - 19-3 Battery Aging (Power), 19-4 Battery Aging (Charge), 20-1 Internal Resistance, 20-2 Internal Resistance, normalized - seem to be typical values after a few months after battery change+adaptation. I have suspected that the battery management actually adapts in a few weeks to actual values even without proper adaptation as there is no long term history memory in these legacy battery management modules.

If the battery adaptation works with your tool, the aging parameters (above) would set to 100%, and in a few weeks they would creep back to around these values.

Thanks for posting these - in next few weeks I'll get access to a similar van (with exactly the same battery management as yours) which got a new battery three months ago and was coded "properly" so now I'm curious to compare with that. The above values of that van before battery change were clearly indicating worn out battery (as expected for a 7 year old battery).

Would there be any further benefits if I was to try testing while driving?

And does this at last put the question of whether I have a smart system to bed?

 

[Grim Reaper]

I think so, if the ECU has fields for battery capacity, type and manufacturer then it obviously uses that to work out its charging regime, that plus the fact it has start/stop and a shunt.

 

[BrianK]

That Yuasa is marketed as a leisure battery, I wouldn’t use that as a starter battery even if it has 850 CCA rating.
I would say either this one 019 EFB Enduroline Start Stop Car Battery 100Ah if you favour EFB
or this one 019 Enduroline AGM Start Stop Car Battery 95Ah for AGM with 4 year guarantees,
I personally fitted one of these S5 A13 Bosch AGM Car Battery 12V 95Ah Type 019 S5A13 earlier this year but I got it for £144 off their ebay site with a voucher code back in July, it has a 5 year warranty.
The Bosch batteries are made in Varta’s plant but have a 5 year guarantee over Varta’s own 4 year guarantee.

Grim Reaper,

Can you (or others by all means) confirm a battery of 353mm long will fit in my tray?

I see your chosen battery is also 353mm long but not sure if vans battery tyres are alike!

Thanks

 

[Grim Reaper]

I assume that T5 & T6 battery trays are the same size.
I needed to reroute some cables but the Bosch 019 size battery fitted, see thread Upgrading Starter Battery