I read it more that if it "is" a motor caraven (regardless of looks or what is written on the vehicle record), then it is not restricted to lower speeds than national speed limits.
Or maybe that is just me being optimistic...
V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019
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I read it more that if it "is" a motor caraven (regardless of looks or what is written on the vehicle record), then it is not restricted to lower speeds than national speed limits.
Or maybe that is just me being optimistic...
Big vinyl CAMPERVAN LIFE stickers it is then and if that doesn’t work I will carry evidence of conversion and all the information to have a polite discussion with any boys in blue I annoy by doing 60mph
Sounds more optimistic now anyway. Thanks to those working on this
Sounds more optimistic now anyway. Thanks to those working on this
What my converter says on the subject:
Quality, Safety and Peace of Mind
“
Vehicle Type Approval
Vehicle Type Approval or VTA is the highest possible vehicle safety standard and not to be confused with the lower grade Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA). VTA signifies that a standardized product has been developed, and that the production samples of the design have met with specific high performance standards of the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA). All aspects of our Bilbo seat systems have been vigorously tested, including the seat system being crash tested to the same standard as mass production cars.
A campervan built to VTA also ensures that you are the first registered keeper of a new campervan and that it has not had a 'previous life' as a work van.
NCC Approval
The NCC Product Approval Scheme imposes a strict inspection regime on habitation safety requirements to provide consumer protection. Every unit that has been approved is licensed to carry an NCC Approved Badge and a certificate is also issued to the consumer detailing the specification of the model that was inspected and approved.
Inspections are conducted on-site at the manufacturers premises and depending upon specification, there may be 500 - 600 individual points checked on any one unit. The inspection process is complemented by unannounced surveillance checks at the factory to ensure that the products continue to comply with the relevant criteria. As such, the NCC badge provides a reliable benchmark by which product liability can be measured.
“
Now (with my run-foil hat on) I think the NCC might be colluding with the DVLA?
Product Approval Scheme
Quality, Safety and Peace of Mind
“
Vehicle Type Approval
Vehicle Type Approval or VTA is the highest possible vehicle safety standard and not to be confused with the lower grade Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA). VTA signifies that a standardized product has been developed, and that the production samples of the design have met with specific high performance standards of the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA). All aspects of our Bilbo seat systems have been vigorously tested, including the seat system being crash tested to the same standard as mass production cars.
A campervan built to VTA also ensures that you are the first registered keeper of a new campervan and that it has not had a 'previous life' as a work van.
NCC Approval
The NCC Product Approval Scheme imposes a strict inspection regime on habitation safety requirements to provide consumer protection. Every unit that has been approved is licensed to carry an NCC Approved Badge and a certificate is also issued to the consumer detailing the specification of the model that was inspected and approved.
Inspections are conducted on-site at the manufacturers premises and depending upon specification, there may be 500 - 600 individual points checked on any one unit. The inspection process is complemented by unannounced surveillance checks at the factory to ensure that the products continue to comply with the relevant criteria. As such, the NCC badge provides a reliable benchmark by which product liability can be measured.
“
Now (with my run-foil hat on) I think the NCC might be colluding with the DVLA?
Product Approval Scheme
Damn shaun witts,.... I think you're right
I also read it like that, but when you get a ticket through the post you will have to convince the sender to read this whole topic so that come to the same conclusion. (with any luck they will lose the will to live in the process)
FrankFisher
Member
1) yes, someone has been asking for figures on conversion, I made a start and another chap is drilling down to get the VW specific figures. The impression given so far is that transporter panel van reclassifications have simply stopped, all of them.
2) The speeding issue and DVLA's hint that if you consider the vehicle a motor caravan then it *is* a motor caravan for speed limit purposes. Yes, I have been in discussion with DVLA and DFT on this for several months. The relevant legislation makes no mention of body types or DVLA classifications, it simply refers to motor caravans and their definition as a vehicle converted for living in. The latest FOI response seems to tally with this new thinking, that if the vehicle is fully converted, and if it isn't carrying goods, then YES, you can drive at car speed limits. I asked a month back for definitive written advice from the DVLA on that specific point, no sign of it yet but it looks like they're decided to accept my point. I'd suggest everyone prints out the relevant FOI response, and the 1984 act and the definition of motor caravan used, (page 3), and keeps that in their glove compartment. A pain, but better than a ticket. Combined, those documents make it absolutely clear that a van that meets DFT rules on motor caravan conversions is allowed to travel at car limits regardless of DVLA classifications.
2) The speeding issue and DVLA's hint that if you consider the vehicle a motor caravan then it *is* a motor caravan for speed limit purposes. Yes, I have been in discussion with DVLA and DFT on this for several months. The relevant legislation makes no mention of body types or DVLA classifications, it simply refers to motor caravans and their definition as a vehicle converted for living in. The latest FOI response seems to tally with this new thinking, that if the vehicle is fully converted, and if it isn't carrying goods, then YES, you can drive at car speed limits. I asked a month back for definitive written advice from the DVLA on that specific point, no sign of it yet but it looks like they're decided to accept my point. I'd suggest everyone prints out the relevant FOI response, and the 1984 act and the definition of motor caravan used, (page 3), and keeps that in their glove compartment. A pain, but better than a ticket. Combined, those documents make it absolutely clear that a van that meets DFT rules on motor caravan conversions is allowed to travel at car limits regardless of DVLA classifications.
I actually used the word 'bigger' (rather than 'big') as my intention was to point towards converters who were a bigger than the one / two person and a dog outfits (and there's nothing at all wrong with them!) rather than the 'big' ones such as Danbury et al.
Which may work if pulled over by the old bill but not for fixed/average speed cameras that automatically send out a ticket based on the reg DVLA details.
Can't believe they have still not answered the simply question of what changes does the van need to be reclassified?
FrankFisher
Member
They don't send out a ticket - they send out a NIP, which you then have to challenge.
Not going to happen. That would expose whatever the ulterior motive for this is.
FrankFisher
Member
That's good news.... but I'll have to challenge 10 tickets per day?!!!
I don't mind the sedate driving as we almost always have the dog onboard so i do take it easy.
FrankFisher
Member
Ohoh, that's it - the new criteria have finally been published. No more poptop campers vans. You can build them, but they won't be "motor caravans". Lot of people are going to lose their jobs because of this.
Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan
Converting a vehicle into a motor caravan
Doesn't seem so hard if they stick to what they have published. It is clear that the list is not compulsory as it states 'commonly seen' and 'intended to provide guidance'.
The window requirement is the hardest to comply with for stealth campers. My reading is that you may need full windows on a T6 on at least one side.
Some graphics down the side and an 'an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle' guess a Reimo awning rail would count here or a full cassette awning.
The worst part of the whole thing is that while DVLA may not regard the V5 as pertinent for speed and other regulations I think third parties and other authorities will.
This means councils, ferry and toll operators will all defer to the V5 when we say 'its a motor caravan'
The window requirement is the hardest to comply with for stealth campers. My reading is that you may need full windows on a T6 on at least one side.
Some graphics down the side and an 'an awning bar attached to either side of the vehicle' guess a Reimo awning rail would count here or a full cassette awning.
The worst part of the whole thing is that while DVLA may not regard the V5 as pertinent for speed and other regulations I think third parties and other authorities will.
This means councils, ferry and toll operators will all defer to the V5 when we say 'its a motor caravan'
FrankFisher
Member
Pretty sure it will be compulsory - it's the high top that s most significant. If you don't match their "guidance" you will not get a "motor caravan" classification. The question for van converters then becomes, what can they legally advertise their vans as?
Buy the right vehicle for the job is what I do. My last camper was a caravelle and new one is a shuttle. All M1 class allowing me to do 70mph and based around a plg. I pay the extra for this very reason. To avoid all the hassle you get with buying an N1 van and hoping DVLA will let you change it.
There is a real good reason Cali's etc have a high price tag over a commercial van. Lets not go forgetting just because dvla change it to camper that allows you to do 70mph, its still N1 class so you cant. Yes you may get away with argueing the fact but honestly is it really worth it, a lot of stress if you have a busy life.
Clearly no good to those that have a van now but for those looking for the future, pay the little extra to get into a velle or shuttle if you find the speed etc will be a problem for you.
You do sooo much homework to buy a lovely van with the options from factory but not for everyday driving on the roads.
I totally agree there needs to be a huge shakeup with who says, what means and when does. VOSA, DVLA, Police, GOV tax the lot need to come up with an idea to ensure everything is inline and there is no wrong or right answer at this present time but I would personally recommend going for a M1 in the beginning to save the agro later. Its a sure fire way to get a fairly universal van.
There is a real good reason Cali's etc have a high price tag over a commercial van. Lets not go forgetting just because dvla change it to camper that allows you to do 70mph, its still N1 class so you cant. Yes you may get away with argueing the fact but honestly is it really worth it, a lot of stress if you have a busy life.
Clearly no good to those that have a van now but for those looking for the future, pay the little extra to get into a velle or shuttle if you find the speed etc will be a problem for you.
You do sooo much homework to buy a lovely van with the options from factory but not for everyday driving on the roads.
I totally agree there needs to be a huge shakeup with who says, what means and when does. VOSA, DVLA, Police, GOV tax the lot need to come up with an idea to ensure everything is inline and there is no wrong or right answer at this present time but I would personally recommend going for a M1 in the beginning to save the agro later. Its a sure fire way to get a fairly universal van.
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