V5 Documentation - DVLA Rule Change for Motor Caravan Reregistration June 2019
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Update! Although i never received a reply to my email, or any clarification of the requirements, i did receive a letter today from the DVLA saying they had "previously issued an incorrect V5C", and it contained a new V5C with the Motor Caravan designation... woo!
Bizarre that it was rejected the first time around. If i were more cynical I'd be tempted to think they reject everything the first time around to keep the number of reclassifications down. I can imagine not many people bother appealing.
Bizarre that it was rejected the first time around. If i were more cynical I'd be tempted to think they reject everything the first time around to keep the number of reclassifications down. I can imagine not many people bother appealing.
It is what I said many posts ago - they make up their own rules as they go along, there is no rhyme or reason to their actions at the dvla.
This type of action by Government departments is becoming the norm - look at the benefits appeals fiasco and the number of overturned decisions at court tribunals.
This type of action by Government departments is becoming the norm - look at the benefits appeals fiasco and the number of overturned decisions at court tribunals.
Wow, you're the first person I've heard about to suceesfully get that on your V5 since the new regime came in
Albertstrange
New Member
I am beginning to suspect the new regulations has something to do with EU compliance,
Technical harmonisation in the EU - Internal Market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs - European Commission
Roll on Brexit
Technical harmonisation in the EU - Internal Market, Industry, Entrepreneurship and SMEs - European Commission
Roll on Brexit
Andys,
You must have missed my post earlier on in this thread in October where I linked to a satisfactory application in September. DVLA requirements for change to motor caravan
You must have missed my post earlier on in this thread in October where I linked to a satisfactory application in September. DVLA requirements for change to motor caravan
So I opened it up,
“sets out the safety and environmental requirements that motor vehicles have to comply with before being placed on the EU market.”
That would be new vehicles and nothing whatsoever to do with camper van conversions.
Also do you really believe that post Brexit the UK will not adhere to EU harmonisation rules on motor vehicles?
Fed up of the B’ word to be honest, the forum is mostly a haven of B’ word free discussion.
Be great to keep it that way.
Type approval has nothing to do with conversion after registration only on first registration as a new "motor caravan" - I quoted the regs concerning this back in the earlier parts of this thread.
Edit.... snap!
Lets see ya picture ! Please
You're right, it was so far back though I can be excused for my senile memory
What a farce this whole situation has become though - they refused something with a body type that absolutely looks like a camper yet they then volte face as if it were a mere trifle. I am surprised that there are no crime statistics hitting the news due to all the criminal activity with registering vans as "motor caravans" that they allude to in their criteria for changing body type. I have never seen a case in the news where there has been a prosecution for this crime which, according to the DVLA, is so prevalent that they had to hold discussions with unnamed police authorities.
Albertstrange
New Member
Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) for new motorhomes
Published Friday, September 6, 2019
Several industry groups have expressed their concern that Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) for newly registered motorhomes increased on 1 September 2019. This Commons Library Briefing Paper provides an overview of how and why these changes will take effect.
Jump to full report >>
- Currently, most newly registered motorhomes pay Light goods vehicles (TC39) Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) rates of £260/year. This is because motorhomes (unlike cars) are built, or modified, in stages and the final manufacturer cannot provide an emissions figure for that vehicle. Other vehicles (and some motorhomes) pay VED based on their CO2 emissions. VED rates for vehicles based on their emissions range from £0 for zero emission vehicles up to £2,135 for the most polluting vehicles.
- From 1 September 2019, EU regulation 2018/1832 requires that all new sales of Light Commercial Vehicles be subject to type approval and must provide a vehicle emissions figure. This means that from 1 September 2019 all motorhomes in M1SP (special category) will be taxed based on their emissions – this can be up to £2,135 for the first year for the most polluting vehicles (and £140/year thereafter). This will affect new vehicle registrations from that point on, and not older vehicles already registered.
- Some industry groups have called on the Government to make an “urgent minor amendment2 to the Finance Bill, to reclassify motorhomes as commercial vehicles for the purpose of VED. The National Caravan Council has a campaigns webpage which lists their position statement and supplies evidence in support of this position.
- HM Treasury have not indicated any intention to make such changes.
Author: David Hirst
Topics: Roads, Taxation
Albertstrange
New Member
The wider question might be, if specialist conversion companies are now unable to comply with [ EU regulation 2018/1832 ] type approval for newly registered conversions, because of the complexity and cost of complying with the new emission and safety regulations.
It follows that such non compliant new reg vehicles, may, if not already in some EU counties, be deemed unroadworthy and therefore illegal !
Furthermore, such VED legislation may be extended to cover any new DIY conversions, of older extant PLG vehicles.
And on a similar basis for reasons of type compliance safety issues, conversions of current production PLG vehicles ( extra seats and windows ) may even be phased out altogether.
Possibly this explains the increased checks and bureaucracy with camper conversions, the DVLA are gearing up for big changes.
Expect to see large admin fees introduced for conversions, because of the time their staff are now spending dealing with the public.
£100 / £200 fees will be on the way for processing applications for PLG conversions to window vans !
Quite sure these issues are all linked to, EU regulation 2018/1832
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8639/CBP-8639.pdf
It follows that such non compliant new reg vehicles, may, if not already in some EU counties, be deemed unroadworthy and therefore illegal !
Furthermore, such VED legislation may be extended to cover any new DIY conversions, of older extant PLG vehicles.
And on a similar basis for reasons of type compliance safety issues, conversions of current production PLG vehicles ( extra seats and windows ) may even be phased out altogether.
Possibly this explains the increased checks and bureaucracy with camper conversions, the DVLA are gearing up for big changes.
Expect to see large admin fees introduced for conversions, because of the time their staff are now spending dealing with the public.
£100 / £200 fees will be on the way for processing applications for PLG conversions to window vans !
Quite sure these issues are all linked to, EU regulation 2018/1832
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8639/CBP-8639.pdf
Just have a "van with side windows" and forget all the new registration palaver over motorhome (sic) registration (or motor caravan using their defined terminology). A diy converter will never be able to attain M1SP classification on an already registered vehicle as the DVLA will not allow such a reclassification - they have already stated that if a van is already registered as N1 it cannot be changed.
Why should there be large admin fees - the civil servants are paid regardless of whether they have a heavy workload or nil workload! ( I know because I was one)
There is still no mention anywhere that new diy conversions will be affected. Quite the contrary - it has been stated that they are not affected.
Trying to avoid mentioning that brexit business but the sooner that we are out of that bureaucratic mess the better for UK industry. The fishing industry is close to my heart and have seen what has happened to them in the last 50 years due to the EEC/EU machinations.
Why should there be large admin fees - the civil servants are paid regardless of whether they have a heavy workload or nil workload! ( I know because I was one
)There is still no mention anywhere that new diy conversions will be affected. Quite the contrary - it has been stated that they are not affected.
Trying to avoid mentioning that brexit business but the sooner that we are out of that bureaucratic mess the better for UK industry. The fishing industry is close to my heart and have seen what has happened to them in the last 50 years due to the EEC/EU machinations.
Albertstrange
New Member
Just have a "van with side windows" and forget all the new registration palaver over motorhome (sic) registration (or motor caravan using their defined terminology). A diy converter will never be able to attain M1SP classification on an already registered vehicle as the DVLA will not allow such a reclassification - they have already stated that if a van is already registered as N1 it cannot be changed.
Why should there be large admin fees - the civil servants are paid regardless of whether they have a heavy workload or nil workload! ( I know because I was one
There is still no mention anywhere that new diy conversions will be affected. Quite the contrary - it has been stated that they are not affected.
Trying to avoid mentioning that brexit business but the sooner that we are out of that bureaucratic mess the better for UK industry. The fishing industry is close to my heart and have seen what has happened to them in the last 50 years due to the EEC/EU machinations.
Albertstrange
New Member
The admin fee will come because of the increased time it takes to process applications.
This has happened with other state authoritative organisations.
The Marine Management Organisation MMO, (the marine planning office) is an example of this. until about 3 months ago (note the similar time line ) it was a relatively simple process to obtain an MMO licence to undertake an activity or works consent, within their sphere of control, you could phone for free advice and info relating to your application.
The whole process is now massively complex, MMO charge applicants about £140 per hour to advise you how to make your licence application to repair your sea wall ! capped at £1500 for projects below £50,000, and yes you have to show all your costings, methodology, environmental impact studies, and so on. Again this is due in part to new EU environmental directives.
Once the DVLA have to employ more staff, to process the complex applications, its just a matter of time till Joe public has to pay for it.
The days of free public service are over.
Fuel tax, environmental directives and EU harmonization is a complete minefield.
Not that many years ago British yachtsmen were having their boats impounded or facing huge fuel tax demands when they visited French ports, because in the UK pleasure boats (unlike French ones) could use pink diesel. So French harbour authorities began dipping tanks and demanding tax duty fees, the result, end of pink diesel.
Don't be surprised if something like this happens with UK campers on French roads, for those still paying commercial VED van rates instead of domestic car rates, post harmonization !
This has happened with other state authoritative organisations.
The Marine Management Organisation MMO, (the marine planning office) is an example of this. until about 3 months ago (note the similar time line ) it was a relatively simple process to obtain an MMO licence to undertake an activity or works consent, within their sphere of control, you could phone for free advice and info relating to your application.
The whole process is now massively complex, MMO charge applicants about £140 per hour to advise you how to make your licence application to repair your sea wall ! capped at £1500 for projects below £50,000, and yes you have to show all your costings, methodology, environmental impact studies, and so on. Again this is due in part to new EU environmental directives.
Once the DVLA have to employ more staff, to process the complex applications, its just a matter of time till Joe public has to pay for it.
The days of free public service are over.
Fuel tax, environmental directives and EU harmonization is a complete minefield.
Not that many years ago British yachtsmen were having their boats impounded or facing huge fuel tax demands when they visited French ports, because in the UK pleasure boats (unlike French ones) could use pink diesel. So French harbour authorities began dipping tanks and demanding tax duty fees, the result, end of pink diesel.
Don't be surprised if something like this happens with UK campers on French roads, for those still paying commercial VED van rates instead of domestic car rates, post harmonization !
Since there have been a few posts about insurance and the V5C in this thread, I'm starting to wonder if I've been lied to by my current insurance company.
Last year, my van was a "panel van" on the V5C, and my insurer "insured it as a campervan".
I switched to another insurer, who said that my previous insurer had "made a mistake" by doing this, and said they could only "insure it as a commercial van" which would cost thousands (it's parked in London). They agreed to "insure it as a campervan" on the proviso that I get it reclassified as a "motor home" (hence me getting involved in this whole saga).
Now you lot have waaaaay more experience on getting insurance than I do (before the van, I haven't even owned a car) - so what's the deal? Am I being diddled? My currently insured is like £480 to park it around the back of a house in north London.
I apologise if there's a dedicated thread to insurance issues but my particular issue seems intimately tied to this topic.
Last year, my van was a "panel van" on the V5C, and my insurer "insured it as a campervan".
I switched to another insurer, who said that my previous insurer had "made a mistake" by doing this, and said they could only "insure it as a commercial van" which would cost thousands (it's parked in London). They agreed to "insure it as a campervan" on the proviso that I get it reclassified as a "motor home" (hence me getting involved in this whole saga).
Now you lot have waaaaay more experience on getting insurance than I do (before the van, I haven't even owned a car) - so what's the deal? Am I being diddled? My currently insured is like £480 to park it around the back of a house in north London.
I apologise if there's a dedicated thread to insurance issues but my particular issue seems intimately tied to this topic.
Try Lifesure - they will insure without "motor caravan" on the V5. I have used them for donkey's years without the V5 being amended.
I think you need to talk to other insurance companies. When I first bought my camper, I insured it on the basis that although it wasn't registered as a camper at that moment, it would be soon as the application had just been sent to DVLA to re-register it from van side windows to motor caravan. However, the application coincided with the rule change and it was rejected so I became concerned that my insurer would think that I lied to them when I first bought the insurance which would invalidate it. I therefore spoke with them and they confirmed that they insured it as a camper van regardless of how DVLA had recorded it on the V5 and agreed to confirm it in writing. The promised letter didn't arrive but after a few more phone conversations and a letter from me detailing the whole sorry saga again, they eventually wrote to me with the necessary reassurance. FWIW, my insurance is through JustKampers and I have the additional 'Agreed Value' insurance as well. It's a lot less than you are paying but that's probably explained by me living in rural Gloucestershire rather than North London and also me being an old git of retirement age (albeit early retirement when I did it!!!). Also as a born and bred South London boy, I should probably commiserate with you for being in North London but it's probably not your fault.
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Motorhome and campervan tax must be halted after 705% hike – The Yorkshire Post says
Yorkshire is getting in on the argument. Big business apparently.
Yorkshire is getting in on the argument. Big business apparently.
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