Victron (#TeamBlue) Advanced Systems + VRM - How We Done It -

[Soundz]

View attachment 161321

Bud can you walk me through what I'm looking at please.+ve terminal has insulated Cu bar ?( dimensions please curious I am) which goes straight to isolator...no fuse? Then via maybe 35mm Cu cable to a 5way mega midi fuse box?? Pos teminal has one feed to B1 on shunt maybe?................... .where's t'other small wire going?..........Hmm is that the VRM stuff ?

Mate do you have a build thread elsewhere same as with you @Samro ( especially under the seat bases Sam).

soz for all the Q's waiting on the latest Roamer incarnate and trying to build out in an old 2006 T5 and by god it's tight with the new dimensions no Idea yet just hot that battery is going in bar blind faith and some wood

Ta muchly both

stu

 

[Samro]

Bud can you walk me through what I'm looking at please.+ve terminal has insulated Cu bar ?( dimensions please curious I am) which goes straight to isolator...no fuse? Then via maybe 35mm Cu cable to a 5way mega midi fuse box?? Pos teminal has one feed to B1 on shunt maybe?................... .where's t'other small wire going?..........Hmm is that the VRM stuff ?

Mate do you have a build thread elsewhere same as with you @Samro ( especially under the seat bases Sam).

soz for all the Q's waiting on the latest Roamer incarnate and trying to build out in an old 2006 T5 and by god it's tight with the new dimensions no Idea yet just hot that battery is going in bar blind faith and some wood

Ta muchly both

stu

No build thread fir my builds, but see post #97 in this thread:

Seat Base Electric + EHU + Solar Install + Charger + DC-DC -- How We Done it --

NS under seat is I believe finished. Under here is a 1500W inverter, my CTEK, a 100A isolator on the side of the seat base, my consumer which runs to uner the bonnet and a change over switch to select inverter or hook up supply. I have a confession, I need to make the change over shitch lower as...

www.t6forum.com

Only change since this post is the fitment of an Ablemail reverse charger under drivers seat, but other than that the install has been good and has been well tested. FYI- I really rate the 170Ah lithium Lifepo4 battery from Renogy. It's been great.

If I get time tomorrow I'll post my final schematics for you for both vans.

 

[Rids]

Bud can you walk me through what I'm looking at please.+ve terminal has insulated Cu bar ?( dimensions please curious I am) which goes straight to isolator...no fuse? Then via maybe 35mm Cu cable to a 5way mega midi fuse box?? Pos teminal has one feed to B1 on shunt maybe?................... .where's t'other small wire going?..........Hmm is that the VRM stuff ?

Mate do you have a build thread elsewhere same as with you @Samro ( especially under the seat bases Sam).

soz for all the Q's waiting on the latest Roamer incarnate and trying to build out in an old 2006 T5 and by god it's tight with the new dimensions no Idea yet just hot that battery is going in bar blind faith and some wood

Ta muchly both

stu

Yeah it’s Cu bars, (20 x 4mm with shrink sleeves) onto the battery terminals, as you say +ve is straight to isolator then main fuse (150A) to major circuit fuses.
Negative straight to the Victron smart shunt Then below that is the ground bus bar.
As for pieces of wood; yeah pieces across under both front and rear edges of the battery, rear took some tweaking to fit the floor & miss cables etc. and front has cut away for +ve cables from that maxi/midi fuse board.
Gonna have to remind myself which little wires are which but they’re feeding the Cerbo, the shunt and the Smart Sense… which I foolishly didn’t stick the the actual battery!

 

[Rids]

Those are the new improved terminals you've got there @Rids! Mine were much shorter terminals with posts orientated perpendicular to yours. The later design that you have is much better.

Ah… that’ll be why I didn’t really understand your complaint then

 

[Soundz]

Sam.Rids thank you both ......soz slow lads .I graft new build houses last man in................ mastic......it's been horrendous hours wise last few weeks peaking in the last..........Rids how long is the cable to inverter...what gauge?

Rids , I'm oft crypitc sorry mate........ wood ref was to me making a fake wood batt to roamers new dimensions and then cobbling everything around it and constantly being aware of how impossible the fit is in a T5 is.where there's a will there's a way I guess

Sam I'd love a schem.'erm thingy.but when you have time matey

thanks both

 

[Dellmassive]

9.30am and the temperature alarms are going off!!!

Gotta love a heatwave.

 

[dErZ]

Currently running an old Raspberry pi 2 as my Cerbo GX (have just purchased a Pi4 and have 2.85 on it) so just need to swap it out.

Been having a nightmare with the cheap Non Victron VE cables so have ordered an offical one to see if its gives me a stable connection.

 

[Dellmassive]

Currently running an old Raspberry pi 2 as my Cerbo GX (have just purchased a Pi4 and have 2.85 on it) so just need to swap it out.

Been having a nightmare with the cheap Non Victron VE cables so have ordered an offical one to see if its gives me a stable connection.

View attachment 164651

You just need a smart shunt and your have data in all the boxes.

 

[dErZ]

You just need a smart shunt and your have data in all the boxes.

Thats next on the list. Not fussed about the display on the 702 or 712 so will probably get the Smart 500 unless theres something Im missing with the other 2? (I read the 712 uses less power)

 

[Samro]

9.30am and the temperature alarms are going off!!!

Gotta love a heatwave.


View attachment 164639

Yep got to love the heat, but my brand new Victron DC-DC charger stopped charge after overheating, following a 25 minutes in bulk!
Waiting on Victron to see if they will replace without too much quibbling!
It was way too hot to touch after a short 25 minute run. I know they get hot, but this was mega hot!

You can see below from the starter voltage that the engine was running from about am to 10am to just after 1025am, which is shown by the red lines.
(The blue line shows when the DC-DC charger stopped charging, despite seeing the thing still being in "bulk" when i viewed it on the Victron Connect App.)

It's a shame Victron cant be bothered to produce an DC-DC charger that can join the VE Network, as I'd have been able to show the thing's output!

 

[Dellmassive]

Thats next on the list. Not fussed about the display on the 702 or 712 so will probably get the Smart 500 unless theres something Im missing with the other 2? (I read the 712 uses less power)

The 712 has the remote display which house the BT module.

It also has relay outputs that can be used / programmed on the back of the display.

But the smart shunt is basically the same appart from that.

 

[Samro]

Post #70 is wrong. The charger didn't stop outputting. My 300w water heater cut in and the dc-dc was marginally outpaced!

I'm going to say something here which is controversial...... I think that the Victron Orion DC-DC Chargers are potentially dangerous when operating in bulk for anything other than a brief period in a well ventilated locker!

I've been buying these Orion chargers and using them for years in boats where there is an extended distance between a vessel's domestic battery bank and a smaller AGM slave bank at the front of the vessel for Bow thruster and windlass.... (Saved running massive expensive battery cables) BUT:

I have only today realised just how hot these things get when they are in bulk for more than half an hour or so.

This is because on my install I have put in a relay from the ignition feed which turns on a big 300w draw in the form of a water heater. I realised that this is a big draw and so I have used a Cerbo GX to switch the heater on when battery is 100% charged and off when the leisure battery is less than 95% charged.

The benefit of this system is that in addition to the engine heating the water, my set up allows the solar to also heat the water with any energy which would ordinarily be wasted. This has proved successful in giving hot water pretty much all the time and I generally have my battery at 95%.

The problem is that if the charger stays in bulk nearly all the time with the engine running it gets what I would consider dangerously hot. My charger today was measured with an infra red temp gun at 120 degrees on the heat sink and 102 degrees on the front of the plastic box.

That is mental as mine isn't under my seat, but mounted vertically on a board. I am worried that this thing could cause a fire and will try another one to see if that runs cooler, but has anyone else experienced dc-dc chargers which are too hot to handle?

 

[Dellmassive]

There is some chat on the Victron campers FB page about them getting hot.

My testing shows them to get very hot....it melted the glue on my velcro mount causing it to slide down lol.

Not sure why they get so hot.... My Renogy dcc50s can run at 50A for ages before it get hot and will then start to throttle back. Above 70degc.

The Redarc bcdc50d also throttles back when it gets hot.

The Victron Orion will also throttle back when it's hot.

So you need to mount these carefully.

Some ppl have mounted them on a cupboard door, then cut out the door and added mesh to aid cooling.

The best one I saw was a 150mm pc fan running on a thermostat.....so it come on slow at 50degc and increased speed as the unit got hotter.

.

This is one of the issues with lithium batteries.... They will max out any charger in bulk mode and run warm/hot.


....


This was the main reason I swapped it back out.... It gets to hot for just 30A and it's huge.... The Renogy does a better job imho.

 

[Rids]

Thanks, I’ll keep a close eye on mine.
It’s mounted under the passenger seat to a vertical, 5mm thick aluminium plate.



I did think of doing the fan thing described above by putting hole through the plate, mounting a pc case cooling fan (cheap & quiet) on the other side… a controller with temp sensor (also cheap on eBay).
What do you think?

 

[Dellmassive]

looks good @Rids

that ALU plate will defo help.

they get hot . . . it easy to test though.

drop battery to 50% . . . then turn on loads and run the engine.

that will push the charger into 100% bulk mode and max output and strain. . .

run it for an hour and watch what happens. . .


check all the cables, fuses and connections too. . . as they can all get hot.


i use a FLIR thermal camera to . . . . the heat can indicate a poor crimp or conection some where.

 

[Dellmassive]

previous Orion testing:

[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --

I've just bought Travelvolts leisure battery, ctek, wiring bundle etc. What I'd like to ask some nice fellow, is what would be a good solid crimper/stripper set? Is this ok? Wire Crimper Stripper Set Meterk Multifunctional Crimping Tool With Carbon Steel Support 0.1-6mm² Adjustable Crimping...

www.t6forum.com

 

[Skyliner33]

There is some chat on the Victron campers FB page about them getting hot.

My testing shows them to get very hot....it melted the glue on my velcro mount causing it to slide down lol.

Not sure why they get so hot.... My Renogy dcc50s can run at 50A for ages before it get hot and will then start to throttle back. Above 70degc.

The Redarc bcdc50d also throttles back when it gets hot.

The Victron Orion will also throttle back when it's hot.

So you need to mount these carefully.

Some ppl have mounted them on a cupboard door, then cut out the door and added mesh to aid cooling.

The best one I saw was a 150mm pc fan running on a thermostat.....so it come on slow at 50degc and increased speed as the unit got hotter.

.

This is one of the issues with lithium batteries.... They will max out any charger in bulk mode and run warm/hot.


....


This was the main reason I swapped it back out.... It gets to hot for just 30A and it's huge.... The Renogy does a better job imho.

OMG, now I'm worried about my Orion dc-dc charger and it getting too hot and causing problems .

 

[Dellmassive]

The Orion runs fine.... Just hot at full wack.

And it does thottle back when it's hot.

The main thing is ventilation, ventilation, ventilation.

Some people fit stand offs to move the heatsink away from the mounting surface.

Mounting on a metal plate helps reduce the heat.

They seem to be ok under the single seat base as there is enough air flow.

But with mine in the double bench seat base it's closed in all around...... It just backed itself.

So I swapped it out for the Renogy 50A unit...... Then to keep it super cool I current limit the charge to 30A or 40A...... But will increase to 50A if I need a quick charge...




Fwiw.

I'm currently running the Redarc bcdc50d.



A tiny unit compaired to others.

It gets warm at 50A, but quickly throttles back to 40/45A.


.


.

 

[Samro]

This was ordered from Amazon last night:

Fans to be powered when ignition is on:

https://amzn.eu/d/hgATLOb

Offset spacers to fit the replacement DC-DC.

https://amzn.eu/d/9RDWx4r

I'll update once I'm done this weekend!

 

[Rids]

looks good @Rids

that ALU plate will defo help.

they get hot . . . it easy to test though.

drop battery to 50% . . . then turn on loads and run the engine.

that will push the charger into 100% bulk mode and max output and strain. . .

run it for an hour and watch what happens. . .


check all the cables, fuses and connections too. . . as they can all get hot.


i use a FLIR thermal camera to . . . . the heat can indicate a poor crimp or conection some where.

At least it’s not directly in contact with anything that could melt…

After many years as a designer in infrared temperature measuring industry… the cameras are great at spotting difference in radiant power but pretty poor at actual temperatures.
Note I say radiant power…
Aluminium can have an emissivty as low as 0.05 and a good Matt black paint almost 1.0 so the ratio of the IR power emitted will be 20x when at the same temperature!
The killer is often that 0.05 aluminium will be reflecting 95% of the energy from things around it….

Be wary of “measuring” bright metals.

Had “fun” once explaining why the tops of the aluminium cans of electrolytic capacitors appeared so much cooler than the plastic film wrapping them.