Vw T6 Kombi Vehicle Classification And Speed Limits

[GB_Vdub]

I'm trying to work out what vehicle class a new VW T6 Kombi would fall into ...

This has been discussed previously here I see (Kombi speed limit ?), but information I have found elsewhere seems as though it might contradict this.

According to these links, and if I am correct, a VW Kombi could be defined as a "dual purpose vehicle", in that it is designed for passengers and goods. If this is the case, then it should (or could) be categorised as M1, and therefore not subject to reduced speed limits:

From www.gov.uk:

Link: Speed limits

Link: Car-derived vans and dual purpose vehicles

From the second link:

A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:

• constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle

or

• permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas

The model I am looking at has has windows in the rear (barn doors), windows in the side doors (but not in the very back side panels) and a row of seats behind the driver and captains seat.

Can anyone confirm what classification (M1, N1 etc) is on their V5 log book for VW Kombi vans?

And does anyone have any experience of getting a van reclassified to M1 from another category?

Other links:

Definition of vehicle categories

 

[WheelieBealie]

Not sure what my V5 states mine as but I did only get charged £5.50 to take it across the Severn Bridge last weekend.

For the record, it's a T30 2.0 TDi DSG Kombi so for the purposes of that crossing it wasn't classed as a commercial, will have to remember to have a look at the V5 tonight!

 

[GB_Vdub]

will have to remember to have a look at the V5 tonight!

Yes please let me know, as that's the model that I'm looking at!

 

[David Levett]

Mine says N1 on the V5.
Dave.

 

[GB_Vdub]

Mine says N1 on the V5.
Dave.

Thanks Dave, I note yours is a T32 LWB

 

[David Levett]

Thanks Dave, I note yours is a T32 LWB

Sure is 4 Motion as well.
Re-mapped to 250bhp just about enough !

 

[Pauly]

All panel vans and kombis are N1
All caravelles/shuttles and californias are M1 (passenger carriers)

 

[WheelieBealie]

Without wanting to open a can of worms I believe they can be classed as commercial or non-commercial for different things, for example, mine is classed as commercial for Road Fund, Non-commercial for VAT (I bought it as a private purchase so won't be claiming the VAT back anyway), and I'm not sure which for speed limits! Having said that I bought the van for steady cruising and relaxing, don't want to get to the destination all hyped up when I'm spending some quality time with Mrs WheelieBealie and no kids!!! If I want to go fast I'll get the motorbike out

 

[MicP]

My T4 kombi was M1 but my T6 kombi is N1.

You can get it reclassified to M1 as a motorhome if you have fully converted it but I don't think it is possible without.

 

[MicP]

And just to throw another spanner in the works Hmrc now classify kombis as cars not vans so you would have to pay company car tax...so surely kombis should be M1 ...

TTR Barnes
"In the end, the tribunal ruled that the Kombis were cars while the Vivaro classed as a van due to the significant cargo space available in the middle section. Importantly, both vehicles have two rows of seats and a payload of more than one tonne – thus this decision has brought potential new confusion to the rules surrounding classification of double-cabs."

 

[BAZT6]

Mine is a T28 Van / side windows. Taxation class Disabled. Vehicle category M1. When I got the van as a CatD from Copart it had a wheel chair lift in the back and 2 seats on one side in the back. Wheel chair lift has been removed and a 3 seater bench fitted in 1st row position. I have left the rails in that the 2 single seats were mounted on so that I can run with 5 or 6 seats. I will have to take pictures when its finished for the tax man to say what category it falls into.
Baz

 

[rod_vw]

My T4 kombi was M1 but my T6 kombi is N1.

You can get it reclassified to M1 as a motorhome if you have fully converted it but I don't think it is possible without.

Getting the Kombi reclassified as a Motor Caravan does NOT change it to M1, from experience five times.

But as far as I know when the body type on the V5 states Motor Caravan the Motor Caravan speed limits apply. As does the Dartford crossing charge.

Rod

 

[WheelieBealie]

Yes please let me know, as that's the model that I'm looking at!

It's N1 on the V5

 

[MicP]

Ah thanks for clarification Rod! Sorry for the misinformation! I've not done it myself, I'd assumed it changed it to M1, it aint half confusing!!

 

[Scruffy]

And just to throw another spanner in the works Hmrc now classify kombis as cars not vans so you would have to pay company car tax...so surely kombis should be M1 ...

TTR Barnes
"In the end, the tribunal ruled that the Kombis were cars while the Vivaro classed as a van due to the significant cargo space available in the middle section. Importantly, both vehicles have two rows of seats and a payload of more than one tonne – thus this decision has brought potential new confusion to the rules surrounding classification of double-cabs."

Clear as mud! I take it this is a quote from the Coke Cola case, where a T6 Kombi and Vivaro combi were classed differently. Bonkers. The difference in the two vehicles was a bulkhead fitted in the Vivaro, giving a clear separation in people carrying and load carrying .

This area has always being complicated, always, and should you be stopped by Plod, just hope you both know your stuff. I was stopped years ago in Scotland, fortunately I knew what I was talking about, and the two officers had a good look around, agreed it was a "multi-purpose "vehicle and let me on my way, but thats not always the case.

 

[Pocc]

Solo M1, dual purpose vehicles and motor caravans below 3.5 tonnes, speed limits are 60,70,70. Commercial vehicle is 50,60,70.

M1 and N1 are EWVTA qualifications and NOT vehicle classes. Hence a motor caravan that was registered as N1 STAYS N1 after change of body plan to motor caravan.

There is much more to changing an N1 to M1 than putting windows in as many have claimed before.

For example, there are differences in the head impact tests for dashboards, minimum radii in knee impact zones, pillar surrounds and head zone projections break away criteria, airbags, alarm systems etc etc. This is why the Caravelles and California's are quite different animals on the interior from the Kombis and vans.

IMHO a Kombi is registered as an N1 vehicle, body plan, 'panel van' and is therefore always going to be a commercial vehicle as far as speed limits apply.

The Vivaro may meet the full M1 criteria in all 63 areas of TA regs and hence be able to be classed as a 'car'. When I worked for Mercedes, we had the luxury of registering Vito's as M1 or N1 thanks to commonality with the V class depending on who we were selling to, unfortunately VW configure and sell their product differently.

Dual purpose vehicles are another interesting category - introduced after lobbying by Land Rover in the late sixties, the original rules were written like a Land Rover spec sheet. The hangover from these days means that things like 4x4 pickups and 4 motions are in a grey area as they meet the criteria, but nothing is designated a dual purpose vehicle any more that wasn't a Defender. You could argue the classification with PC plod when he pulls you over and if I was a betting man, I'd say now that LR don't make anything except Chelsea tractors it won't be long till the speed limit derogation for dual purpose vehicles disappears. This was a British piece of legislation and the only other EU country that had a similar derogation was Finland.

To sum up, each vehicle has 4 classifications, and don't expect joined up thinking from the various government agencies when it comes to which rules apply:

1. EU type approval category, e.g M1 or N1, there's a lot more to this than whether it has windows and seats or not!
2. Body plan, this is in addition to the TA class and can be changed by conversion, e.g motor caravan, welfare vehicle, fire engine, ambulance etc.
3. A taxation class, i.e the Vehicle Excise Duty classification. This can vary by a combination of 1 and 2 above AND use - e.g zero VED rated vehicles.
4. A personal benefit in kind classification. Decided by HMRC rather than VCA and is based more on price than any 'build' aspects.

I don't think you'll ever get a definitive answer on when is a 4motion Kombi not a panel van but a dual purpose vehicle until there is a prosecution for speeding that gets taken to test case.

As I always like stirring up the hornets nest, I would just ask this question for those that want to drive their 55k 204 bhp's DSG's at car speeds; you happy to pay up the £4000 pound 1st year VED or would you rather pay the £240 you pay to tax a commercial vehicle?

 

[GB_Vdub]

I don't think you'll ever get a definitive answer on when is a 4motion Kombi not a panel van but a dual purpose vehicle until there is a prosecution for speeding that gets taken to test case.

So, would prosecution via a test case be required? If for example I went through a speed camera / trap, would the speed trap be triggered by a combination of speed and the vehicle classification on the V5 log book, or would a camera / trap only be triggered by going over the general limits for cars?

 

[Ads_Essex]

So, would prosecution via a test case be required? If for example I went through a speed camera / trap, would the speed trap be triggered by a combination of speed and the vehicle classification on the V5 log book, or would a camera / trap only be triggered by going over the general limits for cars?

My guess would be the latter for an automated GATSO / SPECS type camera, and the former for a camera operated by a human (van or handheld radar).

 

[Pocc]

The 'test case' would only apply if someone got a 'Notice of Intented Prosecution' and opted to go to court to contest it rather than pay the fine and accept the points.

I would also say that any camera linked to VCA via ANPR will apply the lower limits, e.g. average speed cameras.

Older style cameras that have a 'trigger' speed cannot tell the difference between vehicle classes. One thing that would happen is if you went through say a gatso at 78mph on a dual carriageway and hence triggered the flash; your NIP would be for 18mph over the limit and not 8mph over the limit.

 

[Paul Binding]

Is a 5 seater combi classed as a van or car derived van for speed limit purposes?