Legal advice needed! Speeding in a converted N1

[GHind]

Slightly off-topic... But I seek the advice of all of you clever people.

My van has been converted from a panel van and now is almost compliant as a DPV - I think I will get rear windows fitted to make me fully compliant with the definition. It isn't, and never will be a camper or even a day van, the back is full of dog crates to get our show crew to Dog Shows.

I am also going to send in my V5 updating the number of seats and I would like to try and get the Body Type changed to MPV. I have read an old thread on here that seems to indicate that this is unlikely to be successful?

Thoughts?

I’ve read similar about V5 changes although I think that was more to do with taxation class M1 and N1. You’ll definitely need rear windows for DPV.

 

[GHind]

Make sure that you write to the police before hand, explaining your case, quote the relevant sections of the act(s) re. Speed limits & type approval. Also make sure that you make them aware that you’re going to claim costs should you win the case. If it goes to court, make sure you claim costs AND that they are awarded BEFORE you leave the court room. It’s easy to get caught up in the relief of winning & forget to lodge your claim. Generally the magistrate is on your side & the onus is on the police to prove their case. If you read this DVLA you will see that the body type & taxation class has absolutely no relevance when it comes to speed limits, & the DVLA have issued a statement to that effect. Make sure you include the DVLA statement in your defence bundle.
Good luck

Will do I have written on several occasions and like others on here modified and old letter explaining why it’s DPV and upper speed limits but I keep getting the same response back so I’ll try magistrates and keep you posted

 

[Bav]

I did the SA course a few years ago…..just as we were leaving, the course leader reminded us that we had to inform our insurance providers of our attendance. The five years element arises as the standard question from insurance companies is “In the last 5 years, have you ever….” That’s the gotcha!

That course leader needs pulling-up on that, as that's incorrect. The SAC is offered in substitution of a conviction and, therefore, disclosure to your insurer is not required.

 

[Sackmycook]

I agree. A SAC is neither an accident, claim or conviction.
However, your potential insurer could ask the question, "Have you ever been offered a SAC?"
Now, you are not legally obliged to answer that, but the insurer may draw their own inference from that and refuse to quote.
There is no beating them

 

[Salty Spuds]

That course leader needs pulling-up on that, as that's incorrect. The SAC is offered in substitution of a conviction and, therefore, disclosure to your insurer is not required.

Correct, the question is “ have you had any motoring CONVICTIONS in the last 5 years or any pending” a SA course is an alternative to a conviction, ergo you don’t have to declare it. I found that the instructor on my course was a complete merchant banker who spouted several inaccuracies during the course, but you weren’t allowed to contradict on pain of failing the course. So I went into Homer mode & rode it out.

 

[Bav]

I’ve sent them bucket loads of evidence hoping they’d cancel it but they just state the offence stands as the V5 says lgv panel van.

North Wales Police are notoriously anti-car and are not immune to bullying people who offend their Police & Crime Commissioners's sensibilities.

Fortunately, they are not the arbiters of law - that's the courts' role - so do us all a favour and stick it to them in court.

 

[GHind]

North Wales Police are notoriously anti-car and are not immune to bullying people who offend their Police & Crime Commissioners's sensibilities.

Fortunately, they are not the arbiters of law - that's the courts' role - so do us all a favour and stick it to them in court.

I will try!

 

[Ali-G]

What a waste of everyone's time and a complete waste of tax payers money.
It shouldn't even be going to court.

 

[Sackmycook]

If your representing yourself, request the police decision maker attend as a witness. When you get to question them, produce the DVLA legal letter and ask if they recognise it. (They should have had sight of it from your defence bundle). Ask them to read it out and then ask them their understanding of it ?
Oh boy, I'd love to be there when that question is asked.....

 

[JOG]

Correct, the question is “ have you had any motoring CONVICTIONS in the last 5 years or any pending” a SA course is an alternative to a conviction, ergo you don’t have to declare it. I found that the instructor on my course was a complete merchant banker who spouted several inaccuracies during the course, but you weren’t allowed to contradict on pain of failing the course. So I went into Homer mode & rode it out.

Homer mode is the only way to go. I’ve read reports of some instructors engineering issues to fail some attendees

 

[GHind]

What a waste of everyone's time and a complete waste of tax payers money.
It shouldn't even be going to court.

I couldn’t agree more, I’m stumped as to why they won’t drop it.

 

[Sasquatch]

Homer mode is the only way to go. I’ve read reports of some instructors engineering issues to fail some attendees

My Daughter tried that...only to be told that if she didn't make an effort to engage they'd fail her!

 

[oldiebut goodie]

In the news today:

However, Mr Anderson was able to produce dash cam footage that showed there were no road signs present indicating the temporary speed limit.
His solicitor, Dominic Smith, said the law states "adequate" signage must be on display for a motorist to be convicted of speeding.
"Overwhelmed with relief doesn't cut it," said Mr Anderson, a retired design engineer from Derby, after the CPS discontinued the case on Monday - the day before he was due to stand trial at Bradford Magistrates' Court.
He said he had spent about £12,000 preparing to defend himself while also undergoing treatment for skin cancer.
Mr Anderson criticised what he called the "disgusting treatment" from West Yorkshire Police, National Highways and the CPS in the face of his "irrefutable evidence".
He claimed his repeated attempts to contact them about his dash cam footage were ignored and said he was planning to take legal action.

It is happening everywhere - CPS backed down at point of court - again they obviously have not read the case file before!


Link Derby pensioner who fought M1 speeding penalty cleared

 

[JOG]

My Daughter tried that...only to be told that if she didn't make an effort to engage they'd fail her!

Yep, bully boys! All that’s needed is to exclaim “Wow! That’s a new one to me!” to stroke their little egos in response to some mundane fact. I observed one attendee play a blinder when the instructor was telling his war story of a collision with injury (not even fatality) - “Did the force support your wellbeing afterwards?” “No, we finished the shift and were at work the next day!” replied He-Man. Honestly, the chap could have put his feet up on the desk and snoozed for the rest of the day!!!

The course is death by PowerPoint! Book a Friday one as they always want to escape by lunchtime!

 

[Sasquatch]

I've never been nabbed in all my years, but if I am life is too short to squander it there. I'd take the points before going on one of those.

 

[Bav]

I agree. A SAC is neither an accident, claim or conviction.
However, your potential insurer could ask the question, "Have you ever been offered a SAC?"
Now, you are not legally obliged to answer that, but the insurer may draw their own inference from that and refuse to quote.
There is no beating them

It is true that an insurer can use any information you provide for the purposes of acceptance or rating. However, if your insurer asks about SACs (which I've never known any of them do), you can safely say you've never been on one - insurers don't have access to NDORS data and have no way to verify your answer.

 

[GHind]

If your representing yourself, request the police decision maker attend as a witness. When you get to question them, produce the DVLA legal letter and ask if they recognise it. (They should have had sight of it from your defence bundle). Ask them to read it out and then ask them their understanding of it ?
Oh boy, I'd love to be there when that question is asked.....

Is the DVLA letter the one someone posted on a different chat in the pic? Shit pic sorry! Or is there something more official on the web I’ve missed?

 

[Sackmycook]

Yep,believe that's the one.....

 

[JoshB_]

Reading this is making the Shuttle I’ve got saved, far more appealing…

 

[Sasquatch]

Mine was converted from new prior to registration by a VCA approved converter so is motorcaravan registered anyway, but you never know when the untrained civilian legal geniuses at the local dibble prosecutions will have a mind fart and try to bend me over anyway.