- 204ps Bi-Turbo CXEB T6 Engine & Turbo problems -

List of CXEB members effected.

@Tourershine - New Bi-turbo, DPF,

@RunDSG 2017 - New Bi-turbo, DPF,

@Dellmassive 2018 -- New Long Block Engine, DPF, CAT, Lamda sensor, + ( New Turbo, not needed but fitted anyway)

@robbidoo - New Bi-turbo,

@Andnik - - New Bi-turbo,

@Malcs - - New Bi-turbo,

@MikeyBeeT6 - New Bi-turbo,?

@Sparkyis - New Bi-turbo,, DPF, CAT, Lamda sensor,

@WinFreak - New Bi-turbo, DPF, CAT, Lamda sensor,

@Deleted Member - - New Long Block Engine, DPF, CAT, Lamda sensor,

@Steve8n9 - New Long Block Engine, DPF, CAT, Lamda sensor,

@driftingaway - New Long Block Engine, DPF, CAT, Lamda sensor,

@boxbark - New Long Block Engine,

@WolvesVW 2017 - New Long Block Engine, DPF, CAT, Lamda sensor, ( + DMF ) ( Turbo recond)

@vww - ?

@lexhorton 2017 - Turbo?

@Jonp40210 - new turbo?

@bp_porcaro - 2016 204 DSG diagnosed with low compression (17 bar) and oil use about 1 ltr every 1700 miles. Not fixed yet. Quick update on my 2016 204 ...82000 mls. After further work / investigation it appears that the small turbo is / has been the main culprit for my high oil consumption. Observed when the charge cooler was being replaced. Now booked in for new biTurbo unit. Not even thinking about the high bill because it makes me cry

@UVW_T6 - 2017 - new turbo, EGR blanked, DPF removed, mapped to delete DPF, EGR, AdBlue and Stage 1 boost.

@t6stormer - new BI Turbo but still in limp mode ongoing issues

@Deansie - high oil use - snapped shaft on small turbo. possible blocked DPF/CAT.

@Repete - MY18 204hp CXEB, 135000km, Oil weighing done by VW. Outcome is 0,7 liter/1000km.Now anxiously awaiting kulance claim response from VW.

@albiro - 62,000 miles (100,000km), and the oil consumption is measuring at 0.6 litres per 1000km, above VW's threshold of 0.5 litres per 1000km.

@Heydave - 0.4l per 1000km

@RS6plusMTM - 2017 CXEB 65k - small turbo seized solid - replacement turbo and had DPF professional cleaned as a precaution, even though it had no signs of excessive soot. Compression test perfect and no signs of any high oil usage.

@gavbarlow - add mine to the list too. 2017 CXEB, 102k miles. (unsure if turbo or block atm)

@merdoklt - mine had turbo fail at 100k, now at 108k it is consuming 0.4-0.8L of oil per 600mi. Looks like I might have worn out piston rings, etc. Here is a good write up in German about what might be causing the 150kw (edit: 204ps) engines to fail - T6-Motorschaden

@thebuzz555 - I’m at about 1L every 1k, already had consumption test done by VW which it passed, it’ll be getting traded back in to them for a 150 soon

@UVW_T6 -
've also had turbo issues, started squealing and then dropped all power - at only 50K miles (which I think is quite low for turbo failure! :eek:)
204 CXEB MY17(67). Had a new turbo, EGR blanked, DPF removed, mapped to delete DPF, EGR, AdBlue and Stage 1 boost..

@Ashypants -
I think I’m heading the same way…started using about 800ml per 1000miles at moment. Van starting to feel sluggish - got a ‘dead spot’ around 1200rpm. Tried running some injector cleaner through but not sorted dead spot. Think I’ve prob got a few problems going on - high oil usage (engine or turbo) and possibly DMF. Caravelle 2.0 204 BiTDI standard no remap etc. 93500miles.

@t6stormer - new BI Turbo but still in limp mode ongoing issues,
Bought from vanstation (wouldnt buy a wheel barrow from them again) 2017 t6 204bhp 76k miles.within 100 miles limp mode and diagnosed as small turbo snapped shaft, and bits gone into large turbo and damaged that too. turbo removed sent to turbo technics who couldnt do it no parts, however midland turbo repaired it £971. new turbo fitted goes well, however within a week limp mode again, also noticed no boost below 2000rpm. now it looks although its had an adblue delete and this wont allow the limp mode faults to show on vcds or on the van. I've no idea of the history of the van and dont know if its had an egr delete too? so im stuck now trying to diagnose my fault with no error codes. the adblue has 3 lines showing instead of miles, i have filled the tank with 8 liters of add blue but no difference, van still runs but shows no miles
have been advised it could well be deleted. Update on the latest software. Van was taken in and flashed with the latest software, I was hoping on the way home it would go into limp mode and flash up a warning light. However strangely enough it drove home with no problems at all, even had the ad blue showing 6.5k miles. Driven a few miles this afternoon a bit more spirited and still no problems. Im going to keep an eye on this as it did the same after the new turbo, ran well but limp mode after a week. Hopefully now when it does go into limp mode it will show an error code and i can work from there.

@ragnar.sabo - Mine is using more than 0,5 liter pr 1000 km. The turbo faild in july.

@Lolo77 - 2019 T30 204 PS 2.0 TDI bi turbo engine failure. engine failure due to low cylinder compression. Van started running lumpy in low gears, then came the exhaust smoke, immediately stopped driving, P100400 fault on diagnostics, pointing to cylinder 1, replaced but same problem so had recovered to VW approved who has simply said needs a new engine. Aware of the EGR issues and although out of warranty the van has only done 50k miles. Quoted £20k.

@Mart Ini - New twin turbo for me, amongst other very exensive stuff...new inlet manifold with valves cleaned using walnut shells, there was so much carbon build up despite using premium fuel and regualr high revs motorway runs to try and avoid this. There was no high oil useage though, jsut a rattling coming from the turbo, engine light on, no low boost pressure, fine with a few revs through it though but not driveable iuntil it was fixed. 2018 T6 Kombi Highline 204 DSG

@Repete - Another patient joining the high oil use "club". MY18 204hp CXEB. 135000km. Oil weighing done by VW. Outcome is 0,7 liter/1000km.
his week, time had come for my van going in to get the work included in TPI 2061290/6 done. As mentioned earlier we landed the following deal:
VW offering a 80% discount on all parts regarding the TPI. The danish distributor/VW shop agreed to a 50% discount on all work.
The work started Tuesday morning and final stuff finished slightly past midday today (Friday). Had them do the cambelt kit now while at it (139800 km)
So now fitted with
- a new base engine (03N100090AX) (stated as shortblock with cylinder head and all that goes with that)
- fresh Diesel particulate filter
- New Catalytic converter
- New Lambda probe.
- Loads of bolts, gaskets, tubes etc.
The ash level has been reset according to zero as mentioned in early posts of this thread.
Also oil pressure is set to max while running the new engine in.
After getting old engine out they found water in the EGR cooler forcing a replacement of that as well.
Haven´t driven it very long yet but immediately noticed the engine running far smoother with far less vibration.
Looking forward to spin it more to get a sense of more potential improvements.
Good to finally get fix done done and, after bleeding a not exactly small bill, hopefully getting it fully out of my "system".
Massive :) thanks to Dellmassive for creating this very informative thread here.
Has been a great help along the way.


@albiro - 2016 T6 204 CXEB . in the last couple of years the oil consumption has gone pretty high and I just had an oil consumption test done and it's pretty bad news. The van has done 62,000 miles (100,000km), and the oil consumption is measuring at 0.6 litres per 1000km, above VW's threshold of 0.5 litres per 1000km. The VW dealership are recommending a new engine, and they've quoted me £17,800 for parts, labour and VAT. The quote I've got back lists £7871.00 for a "stock base engine (long block)", £1440.00 for a Catalytic converter, £1845.00 for a diesel particulate filter and £295 for a lambda sensor, then there's a further three pages worth of odds and sods like washers, gaskets, bolts, etc. The labour is quote at £2070.00. All the prices then need VAT adding on, on top of that. After a month of going back and forth with VW, they eventually agreed to supply the replacement engine at warranty price, and contributed 30% towards the job. In total the van had a new longblock engine, DPF, catalytic converter and lambda sensor fit at the end of December, coming in at £8,750.00 including labour and VAT. I've put the van up for sale (I don't have sufficient privileges to post on the for sale page on the forum). The overall job original estimate was £17.8k inc VAT, VW agreed to supply the parts at warranty price rather than retail which brought the job cost down to around ~£12k, and VW contributed 30% (so ~£3k) and I paid £8.7k.

@Martymuffin - What, so 1Ltr of oil after 1,500 miles is not good…Yup, I am another one. 204 DSG (2018) 4 motion 60k.

@Heydave - I think I’m also a casualty. Sportline 67 plate owned from new, currently on 37500 miles so .mainly local stop start. Noticed oil level dropped by around 0.3 l topped up reported to dealer car case seal was changed but made no difference to the oil consumption loss rate. Coil light came on and went intolimp mode. Dealer said not egr but flushed it out anyway. Started to worry after reading about the CXE engines on the forum. I’ve tried 2x 600 mile tests and used around 0.4 l each time. Although this passes I’ve booked in for a consumption test anyway as I fear that it’s the beginning of the end. My all in warranty runs out in February next year! Other issues I have noticed is a slight rattle from the engine when feathering the accelerator and sometimes a slight juddering as though it running out of fuel in low revs, and although it’s a dsg the engine has stalled twice. Not sure whether these symptoms are all related in some way. Furthermore I have had long life 2 year service plan but now concerned it’s should of had a fixed term service plan(every year) due to low mileage/ stop start

@RS6plusMTM - 2017 CXEB 65k - small turbo seized solid - replacement turbo and had DPF professional cleaned as a precaution, even though it had no signs of excessive soot. Compression test perfect and no signs of any high oil usage. Pretty sure it related to poor oil heat management of the CXEB as for me it failed after a 500+ mile, all day drive in the 40 degree French heatwave during this summer and it seized leaving it to cool over night. A month for the AA to repatriate the van back to the UK and then a further 3 months waiting for the turbo to come into stock from being on back order so only just got it back this week.

@gavbarlow - . 2017 CXEB, 102k miles.. This discussion has been very useful and has helped me to diagnose some issues with my 2017 204. It's just done 102k miles, and has been religiously serviced by VW since new. It's used daily as the work van and regularly does mixed journeys and have experienced not issues with it at all in that time. Just recently its started displaying an engine light which registered as a glow plug 2 fault and EGR flow fault. When re-setting the light, the EGR code wouldn't always come back, but figured I needed to look into it further. Over the festive break I took the opportunity to replace all four glow plugs and whipped out the EGR valve and associated pipework. The pipes had been replaced under warranty around 4 years ago as one had split causing a blowing exhaust noise, so I was hoping they would be in good order - I was wrong! The front pipe from the EGR to the inlet was nearly clogged with an oily carbon buildup that resembles toothpaste. I've now got a new EGR valve and associated fittings ready to go back on, and the bill for genuine spares alone is around £800. Having read this feed (and all the others on the topic of turbos) I've taken the decision to remove the DPF and bi-turbo while the EGR was out as it's slowly started to use more and more oil. The inlet pipes to the turbo had oil inside all of the them, the exhaust manifold was full of oily/carbon deposits, and the gasket was saturated in oil. The lower spindle has some considerable play and the top spindle feels sticky and not free spinning as it should be. A rebuilt turbo, fitting kit and a DPF clean at Darkside developments will set me back a further £1500. Yes, the job is as bad as it looks/sounds - the VAG repair instructions give you a good steer but it's not quite as straight forward to do having never done one before. I'm an experienced mechanic and restore historic vehicles for a living so I know my way around an engine bay. Even so, I found this one of the worst jobs I've done in years given the limited access and poor visibility.

@Manu - T6 (2017 204 biTDI, DSG, 4m, 60k miles) started to consume more oil than it used to. Until now I only had to add 0.5 to 1l of oil between services.... On the last long trip (around 2k miles of European motorways), it went through something like 3 litres in 2k miles!. Also got the 1000km/650 miles Adblue warning popping up despite adblue tank being full (3 times...). The warning would clear on its own after a few miles but gave a 31103 code SCR/NOX error.

@WoopsBoughtT6 - 2017. 71000 miles. CXEB engine. Burning about 0.5ltr / 1100 miles. Will be doing an oil consumption test over the next 600 mile round trip journey as I think it's drinking oil when on longer trips.

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if you have been a victim, drop a mention here and ill add you to the list:

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Hello,

I bought my van from an private seller back in April 2024 and it has turned out to be one of the worst decisions ever. Less than 2 months into ownership, the VAN suffered a catastrophic failure and went into limp mode. The DPF showed readings of over 300% soot saturation with the bi-turbo having to be replaced due to the bearings being excessively worn and allowing oil into the exhaust stream.

Due to the excessive cost of having both DPF and Turbos replaced, we opted to have the DPF deep cleaned at this point which were hopeful should resolve everything, however shortly following getting the van back, the check engine light came on and required it to be brought in again to change the DPF.

Now with everything back in reasonable working order, things have been running rather smoothly until i noticed the check engine light first coming on after approximately 950miles (had it topped up) then it came on after only 860 miles. The van then proceeded to put itself into Limp mode (with no engine warning lights on the dashboard mind you) due to the DPF being excessively clogged again.

The issue is likely relating to the worn piston rings or something of the sort (as i'm no expert) but the reality is that i am quickly running out of money to resolve this and want to get some degree of relief from VW due to the known faults with the engine and that realistically should stand behind their faulty product.

Any assistance anyone might have in this situation and how to best open a dialogue with VW about the issue it would be greatly appreciated.
 
Just wondering how many of these vans are 4motion?

I was helping a mate with a LR Evoke issue and was reading about DPF issues, and they were saying that the dpf is too far away from the engine to get hot unless on bigger distance trips. I have a CFCA 180 4m with a new engine, turbos, DPF and blanked and mapped out EGR and I'm watching the dpf like a hawk. Nice long journeys it all works like a dream, sm-md journeys its pooh, it just doesnt get hot enough it seems. Just a thought.
 
Looks like time for me to join this thread. Driving last week i had the dread coil flashing, took it to my local commercials garage, who dont have vagcom, but when scanned found the following codes P00AF0 and P22D30 codes came up. As he doesnt have a specific vag com code reader he suggested I took it to my local dealers to get the exact diagnosis, and part number, so he can do the work. However after reading on here, I'm now concerned they will tell me its the whole turbo unit needs replacing and it doesnt fix the fault. I appreciate its a big job, and will costly, but considering the best way forward.

6924.jpg

IMG_6925.jpg
 
Is it a CXEB engine?
Did the Flashing Coil light clear itself after switching off engine then restarting?
Does it keep coming back on?
I'm no expert compared to others on this forum but mine did this last week (CXEB 204hp) and I had the same code (Passive/Sporadic P22D300) and Passive/Sporadic P012100 Throttle/Pedal Pos. Sensor A Circ Range/Performance. Mine has not come back on, so am holding my breath. Others will be able to correct me here but it could just be an N75 valve playing up, which is not expensive to replace at all. Don't panic just yet! :)
Fingers crossed for you and me!
 
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.

but surly all the manufactures know this so have made the engines more durable to deal with stop/starts.? - or are they just making sure the engine lasts till the end of the warrenty period? - ie 3years?. who knows?


It makes you wonder doesn't it? Not that long ago, turbos were liquid cooled even before stop/start became a thing. Take the VW AUM 1.8T 180BHP petrol engine for example. It has a K03s water cooled turbo. Bullet-proof and only went 'pop' because just about everyone ran some cheap FB map and/or external dump valves which stretched the little blower past it's design limit/pressure leading to overspeed. Nowadays, the design of the turbo is cheaper without the liquid cooling but relies on an enlarged oil space above the bearing to give a small 'reserve' of oil during shut-down or there is some sort of pre-lube pump which runs for 20/30 seconds keeping the oil flow moving around the turbo bearings. I see a lot of turbo failures in the VAG group diesels as the 110, 150, 180 and 204 engines so I wonder what has gone wrong there? (My mate's 2017 150BHP DSG went at 54K miles last summer)
 
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As much as I fully agree to the importance of regular quality oil changes, the subject of this thread is, with a distance, beyond that relevant point.
Take the time time to dive into the first posts and note that the outset of what some of our vans is hit by is actually a construction/build error
(I mean even VW recognizes that :) ).

Of course a well maintained van is important to have some longevity, but even seriously doing that, at its best just serves to postpone, what seems inevitable for some series of the CXEB engines pre 2019.
I know mine is seriously well kept as well as the other owners registered on the first pages.

Running a 2022 model should keep you safe from at least the TPI 2061290/6 since that one supposedly was fixed during 2019.
VW group has a long history of 'bad' engines. Most down to poor design and/or cheap manufacturing. Most of their engines were superb right up until around 2003. (Take the 1.9TDI for example - fantastic engine) Then things went wrong at VW and just about every engine and DSG box had an issue. Below some from memory:

1.2 petrol turbo - oval bores/pistons - new engine needed
1.4 petrol turbo/supercharged - oval bores/pistons - new engine needed
1.8T petrol - design issue with piston ring-pack oil drain bores too small and blocking - complete strip and rebuild of engine using new pistons with larger drain bores
2.0T petrol- cambelt design was good apart from poor HP fuel pump follower which led to camshaft failures
2.0T petrol - camchains snapping quicker than VW could build replacement engines
Many V6 petrol engines with camchains also suffered same failures as 2.0T.
Later 1.2 and 1.4 petrol engines also suffered camchain and/or piton failures.

2.0TDI engine - most PD/CRs between 2003 and 2012 suffered balance shaft/oil pump drive failures. This is probably the most notorious problem in the media as it was the most common engine in many different forms. Mates brother of mine (VW mech in Hedge-End VW Hampshire) at that time told me they could not cope with the amount coming in for warranty repairs and standard procedure was to offer to replace the turbo at the owner's expanse (this was early warning sign the oil pump drive shaft was failing as it was starving the turbo bearings of oil). Then when the turbo failed again 1000 miles later, the engine was usually trashed with worn crank, rods/pitons etc. New engine needed and VW refusing to pay anything.
V6 TDI suffered camchain failures and/or top-end cam follower failures.

The latest 2.0TDI CR used since 2010 seem to have multiple different types of EGR and intercooler/turbo set-up.

Earlier 2.0TDi EGRs such as CFCA are well known issue so no point covering that again.

The later engines from 2017 onwards usually have a liquid cooled intercooler which seems to be the latest in VW design cock-ups. I've heard of many failures due to coolant leakage. Lucky owner notice a small loss of coolant and diagnose the issue before it hydro-locks the engine. Others are not so lucky and engine up with best-case scenario of engine strip-down and rebuild using new conrods etc. Worst-case is rod out the side of the block causing catastrophic failure.

Throughout all of this over the last 20 years, VW has remained absolutely unwavering in their ability shrug it off, blame the customer, refuse warranty on the weakest of clauses in their terms and even under-handed in their attempts to 'keep it quiet'.
 
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Throughout all of this over the last 20 years, VW has remained absolutely unwavering in their ability shrug it off, blame the customer, refuse warranty on the weakest of clauses in their terms and even under-handed in their attempts to 'keep it quiet'.

I expect no less from the company that abused slave labour and decided it would be less expensive to let people die from air pollution than properly engineer their engines to meet emissions limits.

If VW lived down my street I'd be putting my house up for sale.
 
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From what I read, 'diesel-gate' made absolutely no difference to their sales. Seems hard to believe that the shocked and outraged public were still handing over their angry cash to VW?

I used to be a massive VW supporter and had loads of VW/Audi over the years - right up until my 2004 V6 TDI A4 which made me wince at the amount of issues it had.

There are still some good VW engines out there as the law of averages tells us they must accidentally make a good one every now and then: My old EOS - I was careful to select the 2.0TDI Cr engine with the solved balance shaft/oil pump issue and without DSG since those gearboxes seem to be made from used wind-chimes. It's been prefect engine-wise.

I applied the same logic to buying the 'dream' campervan T6 - Carefully made sure the EGR was the 'D' revision seeing as all CFCAs were eating themselves. I carefully checked and found out that the DSG gearbox was one of the very few that didn't sh!t itself every 50K. I was a very happy northern-monkey for 12 blissful months until I took it to VW for a service who proudly informed me that oil was leaking out of the flywheel and they have never heard of that anywhere in the world before. They could inspect it for £700 without repairs or parts and I could expect a bill of £1200 to £2000 depending on what they find. While driving home my injured pride and joy, I decided to check on here to see who else had this issue with a CFCA engine and that's when the bit of oil farting out the back of the flywheel seemed like a welcome issue compared to the EGR issue which was about to bankrupt me. I felt sick for 3 weeks and somehow, since then, the van looks uglier/older/less warm and friendly than that first year of ignorance.
 
But we've all bought one!
Absolutely. It's the bread and butter choice for converters, but that doesn't make me blind to the woeful behaviour of the manufacturer across the decades.

The only real alternative size wise is the Transit, and as I was planning on buying my van as a 15 or 20 year proposition I stood a real risk of ending up in wet belt hell, so what's a guy to do?

I stuck to the safer engine choices, try to pretend I'm not of Jewish heritage, and just suck it up.
 
Absolutely. It's the bread and butter choice for converters, but that doesn't make me blind to the woeful behaviour of the manufacturer across the decades.

The only real alternative size wise is the Transit, and as I was planning on buying my van as a 15 or 20 year proposition I stood a real risk of ending up in wet belt hell, so what's a guy to do?

I stuck to the safer engine choices, try to pretend I'm not of Jewish heritage, and just suck it up.
Ford have honored the wet-belt issue and replaced many engines even if out of warranty and not dealer serviced. Most cases they share the costs or replace at their cost. I'm still not convinced it's the right choice for my next van but seeing as Ford have behaved well, it's tempting except.....

: on seeing my issues, my brother decided to buy a Transit Custom last year. He wanted something that could tow a trailer-tent, have an auto-gearbox and plenty of toys such as heated seats, windscreen etc. He was really pleased with his 2019 140BHP multivan for the first week until the gearbox played up by losing drive completely and randomly. Ford refused to look at it since it was out of warranty and Arnold Clark were just awful and refused to do anything about it once Ford determined it needed a new gearbox at 19K miles! (4 years old). He ended up paying £5000K out and getting the gearbox replaced with new and his old one going back for recon. 6 months later the new gearbox started doing the exact same thing so he sold the van and lost £11K in 11 months on it.

It's hard to say who makes a good van these days. Merc? Renault?
 
Ford have honored the wet-belt issue and replaced many engines even if out of warranty and not dealer serviced.
I doubt they'll be doing so on 15+ year old vans, which is where I will be in 15+ years time.

Whatever I chose was a gamble, but I played the best hand I could and the rest is down to God.
 
I bought a CFCA Caravelle knowing full well it was most likely junk. I got a year out of it and then had the engine and turbos replaced, EGR mapped out/blanked and a new DPF. If the DPF as much as hiccups its gone next. Its done 9k miles now and is really flying. I am keeping it as long as I can and going to spend my saved money on a classic car instead of a newer van. I have now rebuilt the thing, everything like brakes and suspension has been done. I drives amazing.

I see it you either have a vehicle really new in its proper warranty, or you go old and do it yourself if you can. Both scenarios, over maintain and change the oil and filter every 5~7k miles. There are so many sh1t vehicles out there, let alone if they havnt been serviced or looked after right, you have to do your homework before pushing the button, but either way owning a van is never going to be cheap up-front and/or maintenance.

A certain garage in Taunton who did my engine said to me they have had a few people in with vans they have poured their life savings into on the look and conversion, and not thought about the engine etc. Next thing it cant even get itself into the workshop its so knackered, and they are crying in his office at the cost.
 
I bought a CFCA Caravelle knowing full well it was most likely junk. I got a year out of it and then had the engine and turbos replaced, EGR mapped out/blanked and a new DPF. If the DPF as much as hiccups its gone next. Its done 9k miles now and is really flying. I am keeping it as long as I can and going to spend my saved money on a classic car instead of a newer van. I have now rebuilt the thing, everything like brakes and suspension has been done. I drives amazing.

I see it you either have a vehicle really new in its proper warranty, or you go old and do it yourself if you can. Both scenarios, over maintain and change the oil and filter every 5~7k miles. There are so many sh1t vehicles out there, let alone if they havnt been serviced or looked after right, you have to do your homework before pushing the button, but either way owning a van is never going to be cheap up-front and/or maintenance.

A certain garage in Taunton who did my engine said to me they have had a few people in with vans they have poured their life savings into on the look and conversion, and not thought about the engine etc. Next thing it cant even get itself into the workshop its so knackered, and they are crying in his office at the cost.

Lot of people buy (lease, more likely) vehicles they can't afford to buy, lease, or maintain.
A tyre fitter told me he often gets customers who want the cheapest tyre they can legally fit on their 3 year old performance car which is due it's first MOT and the steel bands are showing on the original tyres. These people aren't going to worry about servicing.
 
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