Direct charge from 240v hook up to Fogstar 105ah Lithium Battery

[RikParr73]

My Sargent EC155 isn't charging the Fogstar Lithium battery. I've checked the 15amp charger fuse on the Sargent and all the switches are up on the breaker. Read another post on here that says probably easier to install a direct charge solution as, the charger function of the Sargent is knackered. The Sargent is 6 years old and would be a faff to replace. Would appreciate some help on best approach. CTEK and all cabling under passenger seat, 240v terminated under driver's seat but sub is there too so no room, so would need to install under passenger seat perhaps?

 

[Stay Frosty]

The Sargent unit is more of a low amperage power supply and not suitable for charging the Fogstar or any other Lithium leisure battery.
If your van is Euro 6 with Adblu then you need a battery to battery charger to take power from your "smart" alternator via the starter battery when driving and if you haven't got solar and an mppt (this can be a combination unit with the B2B charger like the Renogy DCC50S) then a stand alone smart battery charger fed via any 230 Volt socket fed from the EC155 mains voltage MCB side when on hook up... yep, more money.
You don't have to replace the EC155, I've got the EC160 fitted by Redline but they are pretty crap.

 

[roadtripper]

Do you still have the newer CTEK DC-DC as discussed in February?

Upgrade from Sargent EC155 Advice Request

Hi all I've been running the Sargent EC155 for the last 5 years or so and it's done the job. I've just upgraded to a Lithium Fogstar battery from my lead acid LB and the Sargent now keeps alarming randomly for high voltage. I've not changed anything else and have read that the Sargent's don't...

www.t6forum.com

In that thread Fogstar said that the EC155 would not bulk charge the battery, and it seems they were correct?

Your best bet is to install one of the Victron 240v chargers. I'd take the 12v charger fuse out of the Sargent so it's not in the mix and fooling the Victron as to the state of charge, ideally wire to the 240v 6A MCB that feed the built in charger (it's marked Fridge but that's for the older 3 way [240v/gas/12v] absorption fridges and I believe you have a modern 12v only compressor fridge)

 

[RikParr73]

Yes, fitted the 250SE I bought from Dellmassive and yes modern 12v Fridge. tbh Im not sure on the MCB side of things though. The 240v as far as I can see runs from the Sargent loom to a Junction box under driver's seat and then on to the ehu plug under bonnet. Can I connect the new charger in the junction box and use the fridge fuse you mention? Thanks.

 

[roadtripper]

No, the fuse I mention is a 12v fuse - your need to wire the charger in downstream of the 240v RCD and MCB in the Sargent to do it safely.

There shouldn't really be any connections in the cable between the EHU socket and the Sargent, and really it should be under 2m as it's not RCD protected, so double check you have identified the 240v cables.

These should be the cables and the colours from the manual, the input cable should be orange.



It's possible that whoever installed the Sargent originally may not have fitted the second Blue/White/White loom.

So you are looking for a Black (likely) or Blue (less likely) mains cable connected to the Sargent, probably tucked safely away as I doubt it is currently used. Be aware many converters use the blue artic type 240v cable to connect that sockets, that's not what you are looking for.

 

[RikParr73]

Thank you, really appreciate your time /support. The kitchen will need to gone out to do this so may be a little while before I can do it. Will update as soon as I can

 

[RikParr73]

I've been thinking and I certainly recall the orange 4 pin plug cable being used. Will this victron unit be OK?

 

[Stay Frosty]

I've got the 30A version of that Victron IP22 smart charger, does what it says on the can, bought mine via a German Amazon retailer for just over £100 from memory.

 

[roadtripper]

Either of the IP22 or IP65 ranges are well regarded. If space is tight you might want/need to buy on size.

It depends on if you are mostly on EHU and only need a charger that will mostly match your load, or if you are going to want to rapid charge the batteries.

I think for most folks you are more likely to need to rapid charge on the DC-DC while driving, so I suspect anything from 15A is likely to work for you on EHU. That should match your regular load and will properly charge during low load periods such as overnight. That's assuming your biggest load is your compressor fridge.

 

[RikParr73]

Either of the IP22 or IP65 ranges are well regarded. If space is tight you might want/need to buy on size.

It depends on if you are mostly on EHU and only need a charger that will mostly match your load, or if you are going to want to rapid charge the batteries.

I think for most folks you are more likely to need to rapid charge on the DC-DC while driving, so I suspect anything from 15A is likely to work for you on EHU. That should match your regular load and will properly charge during low load periods such as overnight. That's assuming your biggest load is your compressor fridge.

Thanks. Final question, could I bypass the Sargent system

No, the fuse I mention is a 12v fuse - your need to wire the charger in downstream of the 240v RCD and MCB in the Sargent to do it safely.

There shouldn't really be any connections in the cable between the EHU socket and the Sargent, and really it should be under 2m as it's not RCD protected, so double check you have identified the 240v cables.

These should be the cables and the colours from the manual, the input cable should be orange.

View attachment 252460

It's possible that whoever installed the Sargent originally may not have fitted the second Blue/White/White loom.

So you are looking for a Black (likely) or Blue (less likely) mains cable connected to the Sargent, probably tucked safely away as I doubt it is currently used. Be aware many converters use the blue artic type 240v cable to connect that sockets, that's not what you are looking for.

Hi, can I please confirm that if I locate the black cable above (Fridge feed MCB 3) then I should wire the IP22 as shown below? How would I specifically connect the IP22 to the 3 pin plug shown below, would I need to fit a 3 pin connector to the IP22 that fits to the existing plug or can I use a different connection method?

 

[roadtripper]

Hi, can I please confirm that if I locate the black cable above (Fridge feed MCB 3) then I should wire the IP22 as shown below? How would I specifically connect the IP22 to the 3 pin plug shown below, would I need to fit a 3 pin connector to the IP22 that fits to the existing plug or can I use a different connection method?

I'd agree that a direct connection is the safest - fitting a 13amp socket is likely to be much more bulky.

You're unlikely to find a matching connector and I'm a big fan of the Wago system so an option is this junction box:

Wago 41A Junction Box 39 x 108 x 44mm Grey - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Multipurpose electrical junction enclosure with integrated, adjustable cable clamps. Designed for use with Wago 222 and 773 series connectors (both sold separately). Supports up to 6 cables. Fits through a 60mm dia. downlighter hole. FREE next day delivery...

www.screwfix.com

And these connectors - the 3 way are slightly more than the 2 way but as they are a bag of 50 the 3 way can be useful elsewhere to make solid joins:

Wago 222 Series 32A 3-Way Lever Connector 50 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Simple and reusable, 3-way lever operated connector for solid, stranded or flexible conductors. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Whatever you use it's 240v so needs to be safe, use a good quality connector and box it - don't just use a bit of choc box tape it up and tuck it behind the panel as tape goes adrift and you don't want to be touching live wires when fishing for a wire in the future, or have them touch the van body. Also.make sure you support the cables (cable ties?) so there is no pull on the connector.

If you're on a budget and it's in a reasonably protected area (like the electrics cupboard) then this might be an economical option:

Debox 16A 2SL In-line Junction Box 50 x 29 x 97mm White - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. All-in-1, maintenance-free, screwless in-line junction box. With 16A, 4-pole screwless terminal block. Accommodates flat or round profile cable. Includes 2 x locking clips. Pre-cut lead-in cable entry and removable keyhole fixing lugs. Saves time and money. FREE...

www.screwfix.com

 

[roadtripper]

Thanks. Final question, could I bypass the Sargent system

You are on the 12v side.

To do it on the 240v side you'd need to fit an additional RCD and ground effectively having 2 EHU systems - that's not worth the cost, hassle or space in the van.

The Sargent type systems are pretty competent and compact 240v consumer units and 12v fuse/switch boxes - the Achilles Heal of that type of system is they really haven't been updated for the world of Smart Alternators or Lithium batteries so many people bypass the split charge relay and "charger" functions. The rest is fine though.

 

[Stay Frosty]

On my Sargent ec160 I had a spare way on the 230 side of the unit so just ran some blue 2.5mm2 3 core flex from the wardrobe then behind the kitchen units to the drivers seat and a single 13A skt job done.
The 13A skt is above the Victron charger now as I've fitted a larger Renogy 2kw inverter half recessed into the fridge housing.

 

[RikParr73]

I'd agree that a direct connection is the safest - fitting a 13amp socket is likely to be much more bulky.

You're unlikely to find a matching connector and I'm a big fan of the Wago system so an option is this junction box:

Wago 41A Junction Box 39 x 108 x 44mm Grey - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Multipurpose electrical junction enclosure with integrated, adjustable cable clamps. Designed for use with Wago 222 and 773 series connectors (both sold separately). Supports up to 6 cables. Fits through a 60mm dia. downlighter hole. FREE next day delivery...

www.screwfix.com

And these connectors - the 3 way are slightly more than the 2 way but as they are a bag of 50 the 3 way can be useful elsewhere to make solid joins:

Wago 222 Series 32A 3-Way Lever Connector 50 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Simple and reusable, 3-way lever operated connector for solid, stranded or flexible conductors. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Whatever you use it's 240v so needs to be safe, use a good quality connector and box it - don't just use a bit of choc box tape it up and tuck it behind the panel as tape goes adrift and you don't want to be touching live wires when fishing for a wire in the future, or have them touch the van body. Also.make sure you support the cables (cable ties?) so there is no pull on the connector.

If you're on a budget and it's in a reasonably protected area (like the electrics cupboard) then this might be an economical option:

Debox 16A 2SL In-line Junction Box 50 x 29 x 97mm White - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. All-in-1, maintenance-free, screwless in-line junction box. With 16A, 4-pole screwless terminal block. Accommodates flat or round profile cable. Includes 2 x locking clips. Pre-cut lead-in cable entry and removable keyhole fixing lugs. Saves time and money. FREE...

www.screwfix.com

This is perfect, thanks. I will use the wago terminal.

 

[RikParr73]

You are on the 12v side.

To do it on the 240v side you'd need to fit an additional RCD and ground effectively having 2 EHU systems - that's not worth the cost, hassle or space in the van.

The Sargent type systems are pretty competent and compact 240v consumer units and 12v fuse/switch boxes - the Achilles Heal of that type of system is they really haven't been updated for the world of Smart Alternators or Lithium batteries so many people bypass the split charge relay and "charger" functions. The rest is fine though.

All understood, thanks.

 

[RikParr73]

On my Sargent ec160 I had a spare way on the 230 side of the unit so just ran some blue 2.5mm2 3 core flex from the wardrobe then behind the kitchen units to the drivers seat and a single 13A skt job done.
The 13A skt is above the Victron charger now as I've fitted a larger Renogy 2kw inverter half recessed into the fridge housing.
View attachment 252913

I have space in the same area behind drivers seat to place the IP22. My concern is that the fridge is on the opposite sinde of the kitchen side and wondering if it will get too hot there?

 

[roadtripper]

I have space in the same area behind drivers seat to place the IP22. My concern is that the fridge is on the opposite sinde of the kitchen side and wondering if it will get too hot there?

I don't think it will make a significant difference, especially if you end up with a similar arrangement the charger will be in free air and well ventilated. If you want to be really sure make sure it's mounted so there is good clearance between the charger and the panel.

Add a few pics of your arrangement and folks can offer an opinion.

 

[RikParr73]

Will do, thank you.

 

[Stay Frosty]

@RikParr73 I'll be honest I rarely run that Victron charger as driving and the solar mean it's almost redundant but when I blew the fuse after the Renogy combined B2B/ Mppt unit I can confirm the Victron gets warm and you do smell hot electronics during the latter part of the bulk charge cycle but this is a 30A charger and a fairly large lithium battery.
Like the Renogy inverter the Victron charger mounts through stand off feet so doesn't use the mounting surface as a heat sink.

 

[RikParr73]

Perfect, thanks. I'm using 105ah battery and won't ever go higher I suspect, is, the IP22 30A overkill? I agree, I won't use it often as have solar too but will be helpful in winter.