Is this the T8 in Ford (dis)guise ??

[T6 dork]

trouble is would i buy a Ford = No
how many VW owners would buy a Ford = i suspect not many ( i could be wrong )
i dont like the Ford wet belt engine at all
could this be VW,s demize ?
maybe, maybe not Companys wont be bothered i suppose
i was hoping to see a smaller van from MAN to be honest

 

[ginkster]

how many VW owners would buy a Ford

I’ve had multiple of both over the years. Somehow I’ve ended up with 3 VWs (Up, Passat, T6) on the drive at the moment, not by design or any brand loyalty, just by coincidence. In general, I find the Fords to be a better drivers car (handling and ride) and better dealers but not as solid and they have fussy dashboards and poor ICE. VW dealers have been pretty terrible (and expensive) and the cars are generally not great as a drivers car (the Up is surprisingly good for a city car). Done right the mix of the best bits of Ford and VW could be awesome, done wrong and it’ll be a dog!

 

[Crazymind]

To me Ford has got no appeal at all and it’s Like Fiat. They sell cheap cars nice to drive. Design terrible. Interior quality average or sub average, their RS range to appeal 20/25 years old. Escort RS an incredible performance fan car to drive, so are the focus 1-2-3. I have driven them all with my fried trying to convince me to buy one. I could only have one if I was blind. Don’t like the design, the interior design, the fabric, their leather, the seats,the steering wheel… To me Ford can’t get it right every time they make a new model…

Vw sell expensive cars made cheap but they get the design right, the interior quality right, dynamic right, engine always better than Ford, gearbox better than Ford (their powershift has a clue in the name of the box, minus “f”) to me it’s more appealing…
One thing Vw never gets right is the suspensions. I had a few Vw, all had work upgrading shocks and springs, including T5, T6 and soon my T6.1.

 

[roadtripper]

The engine reliability discussion mystifies me a bit. My vehicle history is a long line of high mileage SAAB and Volvo which while not vans are large and on the heavily built side of things.

Most of the SAABs went well into the 150k region having been bought around 90k, my current XC70 is nudging 250k. I've only ever had to change the ATF on that XC70 and I don't recall doing much work on the engine and drive train of any of them. I've never needed a new water pump, I've changed one alternator, one 9000 I had to let go as the slave cylinder went and it was too costly to rebuild the box (about 130K I think). Timing belts were 10 years or 100K.

So a bit of a surprise to enter a T6 world where changing the water pump and belt every 4 years was the norm (I know that advice has changed), that the DSG box needed a full fluid change every 4years/40k and it seems that most engines need big chunks of the emissions gear replacing around 60-70k.

I wonder if it's just because I tend to run a vehicle till it falls to bits what I'm seeing is the change over to modern high emissions control engines - but I can't help but feel neither the current VW or Ford engines and drive trains seem as robust as you'd hope.

 

[T6 dork]

roadtripper, my thoughts exactly
my Audi A6 Allroad has now done 188,000 miles
and my A6 3.0tdi quattro is at 178,000 miles
my 2018 Caravelle is at 33,000 miles and has just had a leaking front shocker and leaking power steering pump done under warranty
hence..
They Dont Make Em Like They Used Too

 

[Bav]

I'm not sure what the purpose of Ford is anymore. In my youth they were renowned for lack of durability, but with cheap, readily-available parts. My recent experience is that durability issues persist, but that you just can't get the parts - either at a reasonable price or, in some cases, at all.

On my 1.6 Petrol Mondeo (which isn't exactly what you'd call exotic)...

• the exhaust went - it was dealer-supply only and would have cost twice as much as the stainless steel one I ended up having to have fabricated
• the fuel pressure sensor is faulty - not available aftermarket and on back-order from Ford for over 6 months (not good with the EML on and an MOT imminent)
• the low-pressure fuel pump is failing - again, not available aftermarket and on back-order from Ford for months on end

In the end I just gave up on it and am in the process of scrapping it. It's just 10 years old with 101k on the clock - shameful really.

 

[Crazymind]

The engine reliability discussion mystifies me a bit. My vehicle history is a long line of high mileage SAAB and Volvo which while not vans are large and on the heavily built side of things.

Most of the SAABs went well into the 150k region having been bought around 90k, my current XC70 is nudging 250k. I've only ever had to change the ATF on that XC70 and I don't recall doing much work on the engine and drive train of any of them. I've never needed a new water pump, I've changed one alternator, one 9000 I had to let go as the slave cylinder went and it was too costly to rebuild the box (about 130K I think). Timing belts were 10 years or 100K.

I still have my 1987 Saab 900 Turbo, on 185k miles and the turbo still original! Removed 10k miles ago to refurb and there is not even play… put it back and still going strong after 10k miles…no nonsense engineering at the time…and the 900 is not a simple design.
My 1976 Volvo 240 is on 285k miles and no sign of getting old , in this case engineering design is pretty simple and bullet proof.

T6.1 is pretty delicate. Today I have taken it in for a major service and hopefully solve a random epc light on the dash which put the engine in limp mode. Key out and in and it’s fine for 2/3 k miles and then one day starts again.
The previous owner had the car in for repair under warranty 17 times ( just discovered this a few weeks ago) to fix issues with the electronic dash, navi pro and Bluetooth. After 16 visits VW has replaced the whole Dashboard including Navi pro. That’s why it looked mint when I bought it ! And it only had done 11k miles from new.

 

[dane]

I still have my 1987 Saab 900 Turbo, on 185k miles and the turbo still original! Removed 10k miles ago to refurb and there is not even play… put it back and still going strong after 10k miles…no nonsense engineering at the time…and the 900 is not a simple design.
My 1976 Volvo 240 is on 285k miles and no sign of getting old , in this case engineering design is pretty simple and bullet proof.

T6.1 is pretty delicate. Today I have taken it in for a major service and hopefully solve a random epc light on the dash which put the engine in limp mode. Key out and in and it’s fine for 2/3 k miles and then one day starts again.
The previous owner had the car in for repair under warranty 17 times ( just discovered this a few weeks ago) to fix issues with the electronic dash, navi pro and Bluetooth. After 16 visits VW has replaced the whole Dashboard including Navi pro. That’s why it looked mint when I bought it ! And it only had done 11k miles from new.

I suspected a little while ago that this could be why you don’t get paper work anymore to scan through before purchase. Would put you off.

I had to ask VW customers services for a complete history of our used / approved T6 after a few things went wrong. Interesting read and we are only around the 35K mile mark.
Its going to need a new head gasket to we’ve just found out.

 

[Scruffy]

The truth is, as said before, "they don't make em, like they used to" whether it's the extra technology, emissions, profit over function, who knows? But I don't know of a single vehicle built in the last 10 yrs that will reliably go past 150k.

 

[Edgedriver]

My company T6.1 has done 157000 without any major problems. Most of that with a full load all the time (service van).
Put in 3.5 litres of oil between services.
Can get up to 46 mpg, depending on how driven.