Agree with all of that - just not a fan of the "full EV for everyone, everywhere, all the time" approach.
The Ford | T7 Conundrum
- Thread starter Jacobsroodt
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In the near future fuel is not finite their is plenty. They just became choosy from where it comes! It will be partially that and the security issue with supply as we can not expect the USA to bail us out as conflict escalates. The US does not have a problem. They rely on gas / petrol far more than we do.
Me either, but I don’t see anyone in power seriously pushing for that at the minute.
Governments have put targets on motor manufacturers to sell a certain percentage of EVs or face fines but equally manufacturers were fine with that until this year (they got to comment on it before it came in) and they are gently pushing back and government are listening.
People will need a steer or they’ll do nothing and if/when fossil fuels become shorter in supply or countries reduce output for various reasons - which will happen, we don’t want to be in a situation where everyone is stuck.
There is more security and a better chance at controlling prices with domestic fuel.
And people’s point about infrastructure are always a bit rose tinted where it comes to petrol and diesel. We have a couple of refineries in the UK, a handful of strategic pipelines for military use and civilian airports, a fleet of tankers and trained drivers and stations that can still be quite sporadic in remote places. Meanwhile we have electricity to most streets. Do people really think the good folk of Wales still light their homes with candles?
We saw from the tanker driver strikes fuel stations close in days. Meanwhile we could sit at home cooking, watching TV and with beer in the fridge without worry.
Agree - security of supply is the more pressing issue. Ironically forced higher up the priority list as climate change kicks in… example of a country with decent oil supplies and processing infrastructure sees massive crop failure they might decide to barter - auctioning off fuel supplies to those who can secure crops for them. The world is changing - more areas are being hit by extreme weather more often.
I think that recession is a major contributor to more advanced countries and the diplomatic problems that always accompany it.
If you don’t want electric, that’s fine, nobody is forcing you. Right now you can buy what you want. In the future there’s plenty of used vehicles that aren’t going anywhere too.
Just don’t say it’s solely down to lack of charging points and time to charge, etc. as this argument doesn’t hold water.
Put it differently, if you’re in business in your area and hear the above opinion, would you be rushing to provide more charging points or would you wait until more people say they really want an EV?
For clarification, I don’t have an EV, as moved from mild hybrid Focus Estate to my Diesel T6 recently. Wife has a mild hybrid Puma though, albeit not able to drive solely in electric.
Would I buy an EV? Sure. I even went looking for one but couldn’t quite find what I was looking for at the right price. Charging point access was never part of that equation.
Their is an absolute lack of charging posts throughout Wales. Maybe some living in large conurbations might have some but not around here. Those that have them charge at home are often settlers into the area it tends not to be their only vehicle. I have not seen a local with one. I have seen them in towns.
That’s the point. You would normally have a charger fitted at home in a local village location as less likely to cause the same issues as in centre of town.
Perhaps somebody who lives in a house with no off street parking, or somebody who rents their home might decide that having a charger fitted at home isn't an option.
I'm not talking about a tiny number of people who can be written off.
I hear you. There will be scenarios that are tricky, especially in the short term. No doubt about it.
Renting is a factor, but there will only be a very small number of landlords who would refuse a charging point these days. After all, it’s in their interest to keep their tenant happy, especially if they are footing the install if there is a cost. They will also be well aware that this will be an added feature for anyone renting from them later down the line too.
Lack of off street parking is a tougher to consider, I do agree.
The above arguments have largely not referred to either of these points, which makes me suspect that those people just don’t want an EV yet rather than them trying but failing to resolve this type of issue.
My Dad goes on about these points all the time. He’s got off street parking and the space for a charger. He also only travels long distances for holidays once or twice a year. Reality is that he just doesn’t want to switch from ICE as that’s what he’s always had and doesn’t see the gain from EV.
I have zero issue with that feeling. I just don’t get people arguing the toss when it’s not an issue for them as they just don’t want to switch.
I've got a daughter who wants an EV, mainly because her corporate employer wants to help her to get an EV, (for when she visits clients) so far, so good....
But she hasn't got off street parking and, wisely in my opinion, won't get an EV until she can afford to move house and have the ability to charge it at home.
So it's not an issue for me, but it is for people close to me.
It's certainly not an issue for my daughter's boss, who is keen for all of his staff to get EV's.
Because when he's not using his Tesla for work and creating the right impression, he drives a 5.0 litre Mustang.
Just because there is a perceived lack of charging points (my neighbour can’t spot the literally hundreds around us as it suits his narrative) doesn’t mean they can’t be added as required.
Supply of electrical power is good in the UK.
I’ve seen several charging points in Kinloch Rannoch - tiny place in a fairly remote part of Scotland.
It’s doable but nobody is forcing people to use them. And it’s all OK.
When someone is "arguing the toss", how are you determining their motivation? Some will be unwilling switch, some will be unable to switch and others will have/intend to switch, but are still prepared to call-out an inappropriate and flawed one-size-fits-all policy.
It does not bother me one way or another I aint buying one any day soon it could be wishful thinking imagining there are more charging place than their actually are. I wish their where for the sake of those who need them. Should not need a smartphone or app to find what every petrol or diesel user can find just driving down the road without a thought or care. Perhaps it is like driverless cars, who actually wants one.
Missing the point. Am just pointing out the flaw in the argument that there is not enough chargers for the crease in EV’s that are perceived to be joining the road imminently.
The fact is there will be more and more added…when the demand requires it.
Does anyone think there were instantly millions of petrol stations when the ICE was in its infancy?
Anyway, not here to argue, just giving my opinion on what appears obvious to me.
The fact is there will be more and more added…when the demand requires it.
Does anyone think there were instantly millions of petrol stations when the ICE was in its infancy?
Anyway, not here to argue, just giving my opinion on what appears obvious to me.
With abit of luck synthetic (if I've spelt that right) fuels might be mass produced in the near future cheap enough for everyone and we can all have the best of both worlds.
It's a nice thought, but unlikely.
The big brains have been looking at this since WWII and no-one has come remotely close to doing it both in volume and at a price even vaguely close to that of regular pump fuel.
it comes down to energy. The amount required for synthetic fuel manufacture is vast, many, many times more energy than the end user receives by burning the finished product in an engine. That energy costs big money and brings its own environmental concerns.
If humankind somehow manages to achieve a source of clean energy big enough to mass produce synthetic fuel in market volumes it would be pointless; in terms of road miles achieved it'd be several orders of magnitude more efficient to take that energy and pipe directly it into electric cars rather than put that energy through another trophic level of inefficiency to turn it into fuel, and then another trophic level burning that fuel and then ultimately achieving less than a twentieth of the final useful product (road miles).
The physics is well established and can't be dodged. Nuclear fusion would likely be the only way to make it physically viable, but would be pretty pointless as per my 3rd paragraph above as it would be a hopelessly inefficient means of obtaining road miles compared to just using it directly . Human kind is no closer to a solution than the Nazis were then they started on this path in WWII. It's quite telling that such August organisations as NASA have ceased to experiment with it.
Exactly what I thought
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