The Ford | T7 Conundrum

[The Flying Scotsman]

I know I was, very obviously, being cheeky.

That said, I have observed that the panels on SiLs new Transit Custard are relatively thin and flexi compared to my 6.1. Probably of no consequence in the grand scheme, but it is indicative of more a more rigorous cost control and less priority given to feel, impression, and NVH.

The Electric is slower than the more powerful versions of the 6/6.1 but as you've probably already guessed that's only half the tale. The response and torque any speed makes them so much more effortless. I can definitely see why you likes it. We will need a full report when youve had it switched on - I suspect he'll have trouble fitting your smile into the picture.

Make no mistake, if VW had made a proper 6.1 electric instead of that horrible half arsed lash up they had the cheek to offer I'd have had one in a heartbeat. We've been the electric car way for over a decade and would be very happy to have done the same with my camper.

You really would want a full electric camper????

 

[Bav]

The National Grid CEO says the grid is up to it, and I'd like to think he'd have the inside line.

Suspect he wants to stay in post, so I wouldn't expect him to say any different. Regardless, were everyone to transition to EVs, demand would exceed current delivery capacity and this country has an abysmal record on national power generation planning (Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero... ).

There have been multiple occasions over the last quarter century where dino has been impossible or difficult to obtain for short to intermediate periods. Fuel strikes, picketing of refineries, overseas conflict, and that doesn't seem to be an excuse that stops people buying diesel cars.

Yet the same argument re fuel supply strangely gets aired as justification for not buying an electric van. Very peculiar.

Intermittent & infrequent issues versus the prospect (perceived or actual) of base demand regularly exceeding delivery capacity.

 

[Sasquatch]

You really would want a full electric camper????

Yeah, if VW had a proper one on sale at the time I'd have gladly done so. We've been EV'ing it for our main car since 2014 and a not a single Daily Mail prediction of apocalyptic doom has come true, so I'd have been very happy going the battery way for a camper.

Suspect he wants to stay in post, so I wouldn't expect him to say any different. Regardless, were everyone to transition to EVs, demand would exceed current delivery capacity and this country has an abysmal record on national power generation planning (Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero... ).


Intermittent & infrequent issues versus the prospect (perceived or actual) of base demand regularly exceeding delivery capacity.

Fuel stations won't be able to pump petrol or diesel into customers tanks if the grid went U/S, leaving ICE drivers in the same boat.

Indeed, the refineries wouldn't be able to produce the fuel in the first place.

 

[Bav]

Fuel stations won't be able to pump petrol or diesel into customers tanks if the grid went U/S, leaving ICE drivers in the same boat.

Indeed, the refineries wouldn't be able to produce the fuel in the first place.

All the more reason to avoid having everyone transition to EVs.

 

[The Flying Scotsman]

Yeah, if VW had a proper one on sale at the time I'd have gladly done so. We've been EV'ing it for our main car since 2014 and a not a single Daily Mail prediction of apocalyptic doom has come true, so I'd have been very happy going the battery way for a camper.


Fuel stations won't be able to pump petrol or diesel into customers tanks if the grid went U/S, leaving ICE drivers in the same boat.

Indeed, the refineries wouldn't be able to produce the fuel in the first place.

I couldn’t think of anything worse.
Heading off into the sticks constantly shitting yourself worrying about how long you would get before being stuck out there permanently

 

[dubber36]

There have been multiple occasions over the last quarter century where dino has been impossible or difficult to obtain for short to intermediate periods. Fuel strikes, picketing of refineries, overseas conflict, and that doesn't seem to be an excuse that stops people buying diesel cars.

But those occasions of no supply of fossil fuels are so few and far between and then, people will simply rearrange their diaries. People with EV's that have to rely on public charging face the potential of not being able to get 'fuel' when they need it on a weekly basis.

I've said in many other threads that for many EV's are brilliant, but generally they can charge at home and it's not their only vehicle.

 

[ChestnutBrown]

It’s the chicken or the egg situation!

More EV owners equals more infrastructure set up to cater to them. Simples!

 

[Bav]

It’s the chicken or the egg situation!

More EV owners equals more infrastructure set up to cater to them. Simples!

I'm not so sure about that. In a capitalist system, when demand outstrips supply, the usual remedy is to increase the unit price rather than to increase the supply. Whilst this tendency can be overcome with regulatory input, the amount of EV infrastructure isn't really relevant if the capacity to generate the power that runs the infrastructure is the constraining factor.

 

[ChestnutBrown]

I'm not so sure about that. In a capitalist system, when demand outstrips supply, the usual remedy is to increase the unit price rather than to increase the supply. Whilst this tendency can be overcome with regulatory input, the amount of EV infrastructure isn't really relevant if the capacity to generate the power that runs the infrastructure is the constraining factor.

Same applies naturally. If there’s demand, they will increase capacity. It comes in stages. Minimal uptake equals slower investment in capacity that isn’t needed.

 

[z1ts]

Isn't the whole ICE/EV thing 100% dependent on use-case?

E.g. I couldn't do my job in a Ford Fiesta. I couldn't fit my kit in it, I couldn't get my tools in it, I couldn't fit my family in it, I couldn't fit my gubbins in it when on 'holiday' SO I bought a van.

I also can't make an EV work for me on the family car (Kudos to those whose lives are different to mine and can make it work!) due to the length of journey I need to complete in one go and the unpredictable nature of the requirement for the journey. "Go here within the next few hours - oh it's 300 miles away"

So for someone who can make an EV work to slate someone for driving an ICE is like granny in her Fiesta tutting at me because I drive a van... There are reasons and the reason is that I have to lug a lot of kit around for my day job.

Funny one isn't it?!

 

[Bav]

Same applies naturally. If there’s demand, they will increase capacity. It comes in stages. Minimal uptake equals slower investment in capacity that isn’t needed.

The lead time for investment in power generation is usually measured in decades, so if that isn't already in-hand then we have a looming problem.

 

[ChestnutBrown]

The lead time for investment in power generation is usually measured in decades, so if that isn't already in-hand then we have a looming problem.

All I am trying to point out is that, when they introduced the ICE, there weren’t multiple fuel stations within only a few miles of each other overnight. More arrived as more people bought the vehicles. It’s a gradual thing, much like introducing higher capacity for providing power.

 

[Bav]

All I am trying to point out is that, when they introduced the ICE, there weren’t multiple fuel stations within only a few miles of each other overnight. More arrived as more people bought the vehicles. It’s a gradual thing, much like introducing higher capacity for providing power.

I understand, I just don't necessarily agree.

In the case of EV adoption, demand is not the only factor that will determine the supply of useable changing infrastructure - the UK's lack of power generation capacity could well constrain supply, irrespective of demand.

 

[RattyMcClelland]

@RattyMcClelland , have you gone full electric or Hybrid? If the EV, what sort of range are you getting, and if the Hybrid, what mpg?

Green plate...EV.

Too early to say on economy as I'm still using the t6 as waiting for all the aftermarket alarm/security to be fitted. Being a Transit some wetwipe will drill it and take it in seconds.
Saying that so far I'm getting 1.8m/kwh when I absolutely abuse it. I do drive for fun even in a van.
Generally 2.3m/kwh on normal journeys/driving at 7deg C. I expect to get 2.7-3m/kwh when temps get hot.
In stop start traffic i can get 6m/kwh.
So 120-180miles real word range depending on temps and as stated in other thread weight doesn't make much difference to range when loaded. The slower and more stop start traffic the more range I'll get. For reference I do 60miles a day roughly so it doesn't matter to much to me.

 

[Kind of Blue]

Concerning charging supply, just look for recharge stations in Wales and when you find them how many are multiple charging points? If people are travelling peak times, it is bad enough with petrol and diesel yet these vehicles take only minutes to replenish and their are a plethora of fuel stations. How long to replenish an e vehicle to full?

Some Supermarket fuel stations do have them but mostly here in Wales it is just the one outlet for e charging. I should imagine that it is similar in North East England and Scotland perhaps in other places also. If every one bought a e vehicle we would very fast be in big trouble, their just is not the infrastructure available, nor do I see it coming very soon. The best way forward is slow and steady, like most developments. People need to want e vehicles not have them imposed upon them by zealous authority or be penalised for continuing with what they already have and invested large sums of money towards. Once they are good enough, satisfy peoples needs and have a supporting infrastructure then it may, it just may take off on its own. Of course with this country along with other European Countries ploughing on towards a war based on greed and avarice towards another countries mineral wealth, then it will matter not at all what we do because we will all be at home unable to travel and their will be no fuel of any type at anytime very soon . Vehicle pollution will be the very least of our worries and vehicle camping near impossible.

 

[Bav]

Vehicle pollution will be the very least of our worries and vehicle camping near impossible.

Indeed. Net zero zealotry and obsessing about identity politics are both examples of ideologies that can only flourish in societies where there's an absence of an existential threat. Such fanciful and pretentious considerations would have been dismissed out of hand during the Cold War - a period which we seem to heading towards once more.

 

[Kind of Blue]

Indeed. Net zero zealotry and obsessing about identity politics are both examples of ideologies that can only flourish in societies where there's an absence of an existential threat. Such fanciful and pretentious considerations would have been dismissed out of hand during the Cold War - a period which we seem to heading towards once more.

Indeed, what we are not told is that 2014 Ukraine suffered a western supported Coup. At least the Americans are honest about their interest in the mineral wealth and not wrapping it up in something else like humanitarian concerns. The Ukraine has more than enough mineral wealth to put some national finances back in order but also massive strategical advantage to the West. The Ukraine I think has been part of Greater Russia for Centuries a little like Scotland to England. The whole thing has been opportunistic and forced.

 

[Lubrown]

In a capitalist system, when demand outstrips supply, the usual remedy is to increase the unit price rather than to increase the supply.

So, knowing fuel supplies are finite and with some supplies under the control of unstable countries, the transition to a fuel any country can create (whether solar, wind, coal, gas or nuclear - or likely a mix of several of these) makes sense.

And ramping up to that in a manageable way also makes sense.

The grid probably does have capacity already. Generation - not sure. Charging infrastructure for folk without a drive - a work in progress and that can easily keep pace with EV customer demand at the current rates - which are still steadily increasing.

 

[ChestnutBrown]

Concerning charging supply, just look for recharge stations in Wales and when you find them how many are multiple charging points? If people are travelling peak times, it is bad enough with petrol and diesel yet these vehicles take only minutes to replenish and their are a plethora of fuel stations. How long to replenish an e vehicle to full?

Some Supermarket fuel stations do have them but mostly here in Wales it is just the one outlet for e charging. I should imagine that it is similar in North East England and Scotland perhaps in other places also. If every one bought a e vehicle we would very fast be in big trouble, their just is not the infrastructure available, nor do I see it coming very soon. The best way forward is slow and steady, like most developments. People need to want e vehicles not have them imposed upon them by zealous authority or be penalised for continuing with what they already have and invested large sums of money towards. Once they are good enough, satisfy peoples needs and have a supporting infrastructure then it may, it just may take off on its own. Of course with this country along with other European Countries ploughing on towards a war based on greed and avarice towards another countries mineral wealth, then it will matter not at all what we do because we will all be at home unable to travel and their will be no fuel of any type at anytime very soon . Vehicle pollution will be the very least of our worries and vehicle camping near impossible.

Once more, it’s the chicken or the egg. If more people had electric cars in Wales then there would be more chargers available in multiples in more locations.

No private entity is spending on a barrage of charging facilities when the demand for them is low. It’s just pretty obvious to me at least.

In saying that, I live in South Wales and see multiple charge points in many places. The latest Lidl, for example, has a massive car park with about a third dedicated to electric charging points which can (and are) used all round the clock. I have never seen them all in use though.

 

[Kind of Blue]

I am sure that their is better infrastructure below Heads of the Valleys or even lower but not through the rest of Wales. Why would I really want e at this stage in its development. Certainly I could not live with it. It is absolutely of no interest it is not good enough, not big enough range, too long to charge, not enough charge points throughout the country.