L/Battery - go large or go lithium?

[ginkster]

Can someone remind me, Isolation switches need to go where? (To allow me to work on system safely?)

I see people use the big red switches (like a round shape), are the inline ones on Amazon no good?

Well done on the work today. Glad nothing went bang!

I linked isolators in post #123. The one for LB goes after the main fuse (so, battery post, short cable to fuse, cable to isolator, cable to busbar) so the cable and isolator are fused.

The solar isolator is not the same type. It MUST be a double pole one that isolates both cables (pos and neg) from the panel at the same time (2 switches but they are joined together) - again, linked in #123. One of these is infinitely better than disconnecting the cables as it kills both wires together and quickly.

Not sure how you did the AMT in the end but as previously mentioned it is simply the 3 cables (2 x pos, 1 x neg) directly into the Orion alongside the other cables. Doesn’t matter which neg socket you chose. You also need to change the AMT to Setting 3 (smart alternator with lithium LB) following the instructions that came with the AMT. You can use one of the cables you have connected it with to do this - it is not the fancy connecting to a computer bit that they talk about too.

I pulled fuse near starter today and still had power seemingly to ignition wire going into dc to dc, so that can’t be main fuse?

Do you mean to the ignition signal wire or the positive from the SB into the input of the Orion? The signal wire does not go through the fuse from the SB, it will either come from the alternator or more likely an ignition switched feed from the fuse box.

If it’s the main input from SB to Orion that still has power with the main fuse pulled then something is wrong and you need to find out what and get it fused correctly.

 

[ginkster]

Also meant to add that it will take a few cycles of the LB before the Fogstar app gives accurate readings. To sort this charge it fully (it will take a while to top up the last few percentage then discharge it (fridge is good) to about 20-30% and then recharge fully again - repeat 2-3 times. This just helps datum the app.

Unfortunately the BMS on the battery doesn’t register very low currents, so if you do have anything very slowly draining the LB (e.g. a USB charger plugged in or the start/end of an AMT pulse) the app will not show it and the percentage will misread after time. That’s why a shunt is very useful as it registers everything in/out of the LB so gives a much, much more accurate reading.

 

[Chris1983]

Back on shifts over the weekend so will pick this up again next week, isolators etc ordered!

Thank you all very much again!

And yes, I too am glad nothing went ‘bang’

 

[Chris1983]

Well done on the work today. Glad nothing went bang!

I linked isolators in post #123. The one for LB goes after the main fuse (so, battery post, short cable to fuse, cable to isolator, cable to busbar) so the cable and isolator are fused.

The solar isolator is not the same type. It MUST be a double pole one that isolates both cables (pos and neg) from the panel at the same time (2 switches but they are joined together) - again, linked in #123. One of these is infinitely better than disconnecting the cables as it kills both wires together and quickly.

Not sure how you did the AMT in the end but as previously mentioned it is simply the 3 cables (2 x pos, 1 x neg) directly into the Orion alongside the other cables. Doesn’t matter which neg socket you chose. You also need to change the AMT to Setting 3 (smart alternator with lithium LB) following the instructions that came with the AMT. You can use one of the cables you have connected it with to do this - it is not the fancy connecting to a computer bit that they talk about too.


Do you mean to the ignition signal wire or the positive from the SB into the input of the Orion? The signal wire does not go through the fuse from the SB, it will either come from the alternator or more likely an ignition switched feed from the fuse box.

If it’s the main input from SB to Orion that still has power with the main fuse pulled then something is wrong and you need to find out what and get it fused correctly.

This is all REALLY helpful.

I don’t have any bus bars, could I add Victron shunt? Does this just use Bluetooth and app or do I need a wired screen for it?

 

[Stay Frosty]

500A Battery Monitor with Shunt/Sampler (Coulomb meter)
This is the one I've got, nice and simple, any neutrals under the seat ideally connect into a neutral only busbar as does the fat earth from your earth bolt under the seat, take a fat single neutral cable from this busbar onto the shunt sensor.
All of those neutrals will be on the van/load side of the shunt sensor with a single fat neutral only going from the other side of the shunt to the neutral post on the leisure battery.
Don't leave any neutrals connected to the leisure battery apart from the single shunt cable just as you should with the starter battery otherwise you could be drawing current from an appliance the shunt isn't aware of and skewing the real state of charge indicated by the wired display that comes with the shunt.

 

[Chris1983]

Is this a wired or Bluetooth option?

I haven’t any busbars in set up currently, wonder if if they help me tidy up system

500A Battery Monitor with Shunt/Sampler (Coulomb meter)
This is the one I've got, nice and simple, any neutrals under the seat ideally connect into a neutral only busbar as does the fat earth from your earth bolt under the seat, take a fat single neutral cable from this busbar onto the shunt sensor.
All of those neutrals will be on the van/load side of the shunt sensor with a single fat neutral only going from the other side of the shunt to the neutral post on the leisure battery.
Don't leave any neutrals connected to the leisure battery apart from the single shunt cable just as you should with the starter battery otherwise you could be drawing current from an appliance the shunt isn't aware of and skewing the real state of charge indicated by the wired display that comes with the shunt.

 

[ginkster]

This is all REALLY helpful.

I don’t have any bus bars, could I add Victron shunt? Does this just use Bluetooth and app or do I need a wired screen for it?

You don’t need busbars but they help. Likewise, you don’t NEED a screen if you are happy to use an app. Personally a screen was a needless extra expense and complication to fit for me. It’s only really of any use if one is a heavy user and taking the battery to low states of charge. Victron do a 500A Smart Shunt without a screen which is available in 2 forms, the standard one and an IP65 version. They both do exactly the same, it’s just the second one is waterproof which is unlikely to be needed - just buy the cheapest. Their BMV712 is the same non-waterproof shunt plus a basic screen but costs about £40-50 more.

Connection is as Stay Frosty has described. Single neg cable (your 16mm2 is more than sufficient) from LB to shunt then other side of shunt (again 16mm2) to all other negs (via a busbar or all to the chassis neg). Nothing else must be connected to the LB neg or battery side of shunt. The shunt also has a thin fused pos wire (supplied with shunt) that goes to the LB pos to provide voltage reading. Note the shunt uses M10
ring terminals so you will to make or source these. Maybe someone local has a suitable crimp tool?

 

[TallPaul_S]

Likewise, you don’t NEED a screen if you are happy to use an app. Personally a screen was a needless extra expense and complication to fit for me. It’s only really of any use if one is a heavy user and taking the battery to low states of charge. Victron do a 500A Smart Shunt without a screen which is available in 2 forms, the standard one and an IP65 version. They both do exactly the same, it’s just the second one is waterproof which is unlikely to be needed - just buy the cheapest. Their BMV712 is the same non-waterproof shunt plus a basic screen but costs about £40-50 more.

That's the great thing with the Victron ecosystem, for monitoring there's options for everyone, from a basic shunt and app connection, right up to a Cerbo GX with 24/7 remote monitoring from anywhere in the world, a 5" or 7" touch screen, GPS location, temperature sensors, tank sensors, relays... Etc.

All depends how much you like data and stats and extra control of your system!

For most people, a shunt is all that's needed - with a decent battery size and charging system you should never actually need to check the state of charge.

 

[Stay Frosty]

Earth Block
This would do the job for any smaller section cables but won't take 4 guage without drilling out the cable holes so better to look for something similar online geared more towards leisure electrics.

 

[Chris1983]

You don’t need busbars but they help. Likewise, you don’t NEED a screen if you are happy to use an app. Personally a screen was a needless extra expense and complication to fit for me. It’s only really of any use if one is a heavy user and taking the battery to low states of charge. Victron do a 500A Smart Shunt without a screen which is available in 2 forms, the standard one and an IP65 version. They both do exactly the same, it’s just the second one is waterproof which is unlikely to be needed - just buy the cheapest. Their BMV712 is the same non-waterproof shunt plus a basic screen but costs about £40-50 more.

Connection is as Stay Frosty has described. Single neg cable (your 16mm2 is more than sufficient) from LB to shunt then other side of shunt (again 16mm2) to all other negs (via a busbar or all to the chassis neg). Nothing else must be connected to the LB neg or battery side of shunt. The shunt also has a thin fused pos wire (supplied with shunt) that goes to the LB pos to provide voltage reading. Note the shunt uses M10
ring terminals so you will to make or source these. Maybe someone local has a suitable crimp tool?

I’ve ordered a crimping tool that you use with a vice and some m10 connections. I think I’ll do an isolator and a shunt and apart from securing all down, leave it alone then!!

I’ll put an isolator in on solar side too!

 

[Chris1983]

https://amzn.eu/d/bdwKM4l

Is this the one if I want to keep in line with other Victron kit?

 

[Stay Frosty]

Yep apart from being £30 dearer than the Renogy and not having a display meaning you need your phone to see the readout...
I say sod brand loyalty especially when you can't see any of that blue plastic on display.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Yeah the bmv712 is the Victron equivalent.

https://amzn.eu/d/c5fvK6z

All depends if you're happy just using an app (having everything in one app makes things easier) or if you want a display.

 

[Chris1983]

I have mppt solar/ dc to dc/ ip22 etc in Victron. So app gets used. Figured sensible to keep aligned. Not wanting a wired screen cos I can’t be bothered threading wires everywhere.

 

[Chris1983]

Daft question incoming x2.

Context. Solar wired into wardrobe wiring (back of something with spade connector). Always worked beautifully.

Since install of lifepo, still working as you can see from photo.

BUT, battery suggests in float. Would I not expect that to be charging? It is only a small amount of power (sunlight across like a third of one panel).

Or is this likely just the BMS not being sensitive enough to ‘pick up’?

And second one-

Should I just order a negative bus bar that will accommodate various size wires, rather than try and get all onto shunt?

 

[Chris1983]

 

[Chris1983]

And from prev pic, where stuff disappears under floor from fuse box or neg post of LB in this pic, do I need to attach them somehow to a shunt?

Ps I am reading that book studiously!!

 

[Chris1983]

Also ordered Victron shunt and isolator switches etc

 

[TallPaul_S]

Daft question incoming x2.

Context. Solar wired into wardrobe wiring (back of something with spade connector). Always worked beautifully.

Since install of lifepo, still working as you can see from photo.

BUT, battery suggests in float. Would I not expect that to be charging? It is only a small amount of power (sunlight across like a third of one panel).

Or is this likely just the BMS not being sensitive enough to ‘pick up’?

And second one-

Should I just order a negative bus bar that will accommodate various size wires, rather than try and get all onto shunt?

Check the MPPT settings. Should be set to one of the presets, smart lithium (LiFePO4).


Also the voltage the MPPT is detecting (13.89v) doesn't match the battery voltage (13.4v), which is strange.

 

[Chris1983]

Check the MPPT settings. Should be set to one of the presets, smart lithium (LiFePO4).


Also the voltage the MPPT is detecting (13.89v) doesn't match the battery voltage (13.4v), which is strange.

This sounds like an issue?

I’ll check tomoz in full sunlight, see what is occurring.