I know "poppet" TBF bit 2 deep for the average 6 owner weren't it.......... I'm sorry it flew so far ova ya 'ead
mind it amused me
and really, does owt else matter?
bless so quaint
touche.now where's that damn apostrophe?
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
- Thread starter Dellmassive
- Start date
mind it amused me
and really, does owt else matter?
bless so quaint
touche.now where's that damn apostrophe?
Whatever it is, he speaks it effluently.
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I've got to say @Dellmassive, having only read up to page 6 so far, this is an awesome thread - loads of info I can use when probing my convertor as to exactly what they've quoted for under the woolly title of "Lithium Power System"! The convertor is gonna love me when I start asking dozens of informed power-related questions... NOT!
Date wise, I've reached comments posted in Nov 2019 - I'm just hoping that the comments posted in 2022 will reflect that the tech has moved on, such that all the disconnects and temp range checks are all in-built and it all works seamlessly out of the box. NO SPOILERS THOUGH, please - just another 25 pages to read!
Date wise, I've reached comments posted in Nov 2019 - I'm just hoping that the comments posted in 2022 will reflect that the tech has moved on, such that all the disconnects and temp range checks are all in-built and it all works seamlessly out of the box. NO SPOILERS THOUGH, please - just another 25 pages to read!
@Bav
glad your enjoying the ride. - keep reading
+++
just to put your mind at rest - the batterys have moved on leaps and bounds over the last 24mnths
nearly all have a fully integrated BMS that covers all the functions, so most of the early extra bits ( that we used on the green valence batterys) are not needed now.
also
the chargers and dc-dc chargers have also moved on . . . so they now come with low temp charge protection etc etc etc.
+++
when you have caught up, have a look here for the rest:
Dellmassive’s "How I Done It" blogs.
-- Dellmassive`s -- "How I Done It" -- thread -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...
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same tech - just smaller capacity.
lets ask @RoamerBatteries for details ( steve whats the difference ?).
Roamer - Premium LiFePO4 lithium Leisure Batteries
Roamer SMART4, XTREME and HOME - the next generation in 12v 24V and 48V LiFePO4 lithium leisure batteries for campervans, motorhomes and boats. From 100Ah to 460Ah capacity with Bluetooth BMS, Victron GX integration, Active Balancing and low temperature charge protection. 5 Star UK support, 10...
roamerbatteries.com
here is the 230sb Gen2
Roamer LiFePO4 Gen2 230Ah Seatbase battery -- "How I Done It" --
Roamer LiFePO4 Gen2 230Ah Seatbase battery -- "How I Done It" -- Its a Lithium LifePo4, its got massive capacity @ 230Ah, its got massive discharge performance 250A/500A, its Bluetooth, its a Roamer !!, its exciting . . . . . its coming soon - the full test . . . . ...
.
Yea the 100s are same cells and BMS, uses the same Roamer app and goes through same high quality checks as the bigger batteries.
Most 100Ah batts now use cheap pouch cells whereas we use grade A+ matched prismatic cells… They’re actually 105Ah capacity and we have tested go 115Ah when new so you get a little bit more. The power output also higher, it’ll let you draw 200A continuous.
So it’s a much better battery than most, we don’t cut corners or use cheap components in order to compete on price
Most 100Ah batts now use cheap pouch cells whereas we use grade A+ matched prismatic cells… They’re actually 105Ah capacity and we have tested go 115Ah when new so you get a little bit more. The power output also higher, it’ll let you draw 200A continuous.
So it’s a much better battery than most, we don’t cut corners or use cheap components in order to compete on price
Thanks Steve, will it be a direct swap size and fitting wise, with my existing factory fit AGM?
I've already upgraded to a lithium CTEK charger
I’m impressed by the increase to a ten year warranty - that’s the kind of thing that would sway me to a lithium purchase - shows you’ve got some confidence in them!
Yep should be… it’s a standard group 31 case 325mm x 173mm x 220mm.
Not on website till later this week but we’ve actually got a 160Ah battery coming out soon (delivery end of August). It uses same case as the 100 so this is the most capacity you’ll find as a direct swap. It’ll be £900 retail price, £810 with preorder discount.
@Dellmassive, I'm up to page 10 of this thread now and still learning lots (from a starting position of knowing bugger all 
) - so many thanks to you and all the other contributors. However, I have some really dumb questions relating to the description used for the projected life of an Li battery: n cycles @x% dod.
In this context, what is a cycle? Is it...
If (A), then what does x% relate to? Is it the projected remaining capacity of the battery, the projected health of the battery (whatever that means), or something else?
If (B), then what state will the battery be predicted to be in after n cycles? Is is potentially end of life, a degraded capacity perhaps, or something else?
If (C), please explain.
Apologies if the answers to the above should be bleedin' obvious!
) - so many thanks to you and all the other contributors. However, I have some really dumb questions relating to the description used for the projected life of an Li battery: n cycles @x% dod.In this context, what is a cycle? Is it...
(A) taking the battery from 100% SoC to [LBD]% SoC and back to 100% SoC,
(B) taking the battery from 100% SoC to x% SoC and back to 100% SoC, or
(C) neither of the above?
If (A), then what does x% relate to? Is it the projected remaining capacity of the battery, the projected health of the battery (whatever that means), or something else?
If (B), then what state will the battery be predicted to be in after n cycles? Is is potentially end of life, a degraded capacity perhaps, or something else?
If (C), please explain.
Apologies if the answers to the above should be bleedin' obvious!
@Bav
A cycle is considered to be a full discharge then a full recharge.
So
From 100% SoC (state of charge) ... Drained down fully to 0% SoC.
Then fully charged from 0% back up to 100%.
That's a cycle.
However some battery BMS monitor the Wh or Ah being drawn...
for example if you discharge down to 50% then recharge to 100%.... Then down to 50% and recharge to 100% again.
The net effect is still say 50Ah drawn twice(50+50) from 100Ah , then recharged (50+50).. so you end up with 1* cycle.... Even though you only went down to 50%. ( But twice)
It depends on the BMS firmware as to how the battery meters the cycle count.
Most seen to use a mix of low and high soc trigger points, plus Ah accumulative measuring.
A cycle is considered to be a full discharge then a full recharge.
So
From 100% SoC (state of charge) ... Drained down fully to 0% SoC.
Then fully charged from 0% back up to 100%.
That's a cycle.
However some battery BMS monitor the Wh or Ah being drawn...
for example if you discharge down to 50% then recharge to 100%.... Then down to 50% and recharge to 100% again.
The net effect is still say 50Ah drawn twice(50+50) from 100Ah , then recharged (50+50).. so you end up with 1* cycle.... Even though you only went down to 50%. ( But twice)
It depends on the BMS firmware as to how the battery meters the cycle count.
Most seen to use a mix of low and high soc trigger points, plus Ah accumulative measuring.
Remember SoC is the "charge."
SoH is "state of health"
The idea being that as the battery cycles the health with reduce over time.
A good lifpo4 battery will achieve 4000 cycles before it loses 20%... At that point it's SoH will be considered 80%.
Another thing that affects the soh, is the dod or depth of discharge.
That shows that the less you drain the soc the longer the battery will last.
For example cycling a battery 100-50-100% will last a lot longer than doing a 100-0-100%.... Due to the chemistry in the cell.
It's been said that it's best to keep the batterys in the 20-80% band, but that's impractical.
So 20-100% is a good range for longer life.
SoH is "state of health"
The idea being that as the battery cycles the health with reduce over time.
A good lifpo4 battery will achieve 4000 cycles before it loses 20%... At that point it's SoH will be considered 80%.
Another thing that affects the soh, is the dod or depth of discharge.
That shows that the less you drain the soc the longer the battery will last.
For example cycling a battery 100-50-100% will last a lot longer than doing a 100-0-100%.... Due to the chemistry in the cell.
It's been said that it's best to keep the batterys in the 20-80% band, but that's impractical.
So 20-100% is a good range for longer life.
Remember.
If you 100-0-100% cycled a decent lifepo4 every single day it would last for 10 years!!! - and still have 80% soh to play with.
4000cycles / 365days = 10.9 years.
If you 100-0-100% cycled a decent lifepo4 every single day it would last for 10 years!!! - and still have 80% soh to play with.
4000cycles / 365days = 10.9 years.
Okay, I get this ^^^ - makes perfect sense - thanks.
Okay, so I think you're telling me that for, say, "4000 cycles @80%", the 80% bit refers to the battery's SoH.
If so, what does an 80% SoH actually mean for the performance of the battery? Will it only have 80% of its original capacity, will it only discharge at 80% of the rate it did, will its efficiency be only 80% of what it was, etc., or is SoH a bit more of a woolly concept, such that 100% is excellent, 80% is fine, 50% is okay and <10% is fooked?
Yeah - that's awesome, isn't it?
Yes. 80% soh means it will only have 80% of its original 100% full charge in Wh or Ah.
As an example. The new 100ah lifepo4 battery after 4000 cycles will only deliver 80ah.... Or 80% of its original capacity.
It will discharge 80ah and will take 80ah then show full..... But it's lost 20% of its as new capacity.
It's just a metric of the cell chemistry, wear and tear and it's loosing it's ability to hold the original capacity.
As an example. The new 100ah lifepo4 battery after 4000 cycles will only deliver 80ah.... Or 80% of its original capacity.
It will discharge 80ah and will take 80ah then show full..... But it's lost 20% of its as new capacity.
It's just a metric of the cell chemistry, wear and tear and it's loosing it's ability to hold the original capacity.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff for me.
and a B2B charger a solar panel an MPPT some cable some heat shrink bus bars chrimper cable cutter stripper( we'll talk about that one later
) mega or midi fuses..........it don't matter which type of van you have a combi a camper what ever.....there always gonna be a whole host of other stuff Zave one fing always leads to another
I got my roamer battery and some blue gizmos working last week............but my battery was full bless 'em Roamer sent it that way.........so I charged all my dewalt batteries. so the sun could fill it back up again I then realised all my dewalt tools will now run for free by the power of the sun............so naturally I've just bought a dewalt polisher gizmo so I can one day polish my bus by sunpower
roamer power an'
blue power
Zave be warned there's a slippery slope here.........I thought my battery was just for camping !! A shunt thing was just for monitoring and a transporter was just a van
all the luck
stu
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